Training TPMS sensors in new wheels

[davisontech]

Just grabbed a set of aftermarket 22" wheels/tires. I ran them for a few days without any issues, but today the TPMS fault sensor went on. Checked all tire pressures and they are correct (45psi). I ordered these wheels online with tires mounted and TPMS installed. Im guessing that they need to be trained....I tried doing it following this procedure.....

 

 

1.Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position.

2.Turn the ignition switch from the OFF position to the RUN position three times, ending in the RUN position. Do not wait more than one minute between each key cycle.

3.Press and release the brake pedal.

4.Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position.

5.Turn the ignition switch from the OFF position to the RUN position three times, ending in the RUN position. Do not wait more than one minute between each key cycle.

6.The horn will sound once and the TPMS indicator will flash if train mode has been entered successfully. If equipped, the message center displays "TRAIN LF TIRE", place the magnet on the valve stem of the LF tire pressure sensor. The horn will sound briefly to indicate that the tire pressure sensor has been recognized by the TPMS module.

7.Within two minutes after the horn sounds, place the magnet on the valve stem of the RF tire pressure sensor.

NOTE: If the VSM (TPMS module integral to VSM) does not recognize any one of the four tire pressure sensors during the tire training procedure, the horn will sound twice and the message center (if equipped) will display "TIRE NOT TRAINED REPEAT" and the procedure must be repeated.

8.Repeat Step 7 for the RR and LR tires.

When the tire training procedure is complete, the horn will sound once and the message center (if equipped) will display "TIRE TRAINING MODE COMPLETE".

 

 

....I get to "Train LF Tire" in step 6, put the magnet on the valve stem, but I cant get the sensor to be recognized. I was using a magnet from a speaker (all I had, read that it has worked for others), which Im guessing could be the cause. Assuming the magnet is the problem, does anyone know where I can find the real magnet I am supposed to be using? And should this solve my issue once completed?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Scorpio]

45 PSI is WAYYYY too high!!! That's the maximum the tire can hold, check your door jamb sticker or driver's manual for correct pressure.

[davisontech]

45 PSI is WAYYYY too high!!! That's the maximum the tire can hold, check your door jamb sticker or driver's manual for correct pressure.

 

 

These are aftermarket wheels/tires that recommend 45 psi.

Edited March 19, 2012 by davisontech

[Scorpio]

I've bought a lot of aftermarket wheels and tires myself for various vehicles over the years, and I've never heard of any of them recommending a 45 PSI cold static inflation as correct. Again, either a rep who doesn't know what they're talking about, or you've misread the sidewall inflation rating as the recommended one, is leading you astray.

[davisontech]

I've bought a lot of aftermarket wheels and tires myself for various vehicles over the years, and I've never heard of any of them recommending a 45 PSI cold static inflation as correct. Again, either a rep who doesn't know what they're talking about, or you've misread the sidewall inflation rating as the recommended one, is leading you astray.

 

Really not going to get into a pissing match about this. The psi has been checked and verified by 3 separate people including tirerack.com, another big online wheel dealer, and the tire manufacturer itself. I also personally know a number of people at my local rim shop that run in the 40-45 range without any issues.

 

With that said....is there anyone that can actually help with the issue I am asking about?

[Scorpio]

No pissing contest, just concerned for your safety...but since you don't seem to be, well happy motoring!

[davisontech]

No pissing contest, just concerned for your safety...but since you don't seem to be, well happy motoring!

 

 

Since you want to accuse me of not caring for the safety of myself and my family....Again, I have checked recommended psi levels with the tire manufacturer, along with 2 major wheel companies, and my local rim shop...all with expertise and knowledge about my particular setup...they were all in complete agreement. I was repeatedly told 40-45 psi with my setup and that is what I am following. I am actually running at 44 psi to be technical....didnt know that was where this convo was going to be headed with my original post.

 

A number of sources, including tire manufacturers, will also tell you that running at 90% of the Max psi is the optimum inflation level....I am well below the Max range. 2 quick links for you without spending too much time searching, both of which recommend 90% max pressure... http://www.sunnytire.com/care.aspx http://global.hankooktire.com/Serv/Inflation.aspx?pageNum=3&subNum=1&ChildNum=3

 

So you are suggesting I disregard everything I was told by the reliable wheel companies, speaking with tire manufacturers, tire manufacturers websites, and rim shops, all because a guy named Scorpion on a forum, who knows nothing about my wheels/tires/etc, told me to...That sounds like great, and extremely safe, idea.

[Dingo]

Go to the tire authorities that you mentioned with your problem. Since they're all tire ninjas, they'll have the solution.

[davisontech]

Its obvious there is no one here that will offer any advice besides accusing me of neglecting safety and lame talk of "tire ninjas"....so for anyone having a similar problem, I would like to provide you with some help with your situation.

 

The part you need is Part #: 8C2Z1A203A and Ford service depts have them for about $40.

 

I was just able to meet up with someone local to me who responded on another forum and had this calibration tool for when he switches his winter/summer wheels. He actually works for Ford in the Service Dept and was running close to 45psi on his 22" wheels as well.

 

The TPMS registered within a couple minutes using the sequence in the original post, the sensor fault alert is now gone.

 

Im glad the other forum was so helpful towards resolving my problem, bc the know-it-all sarcastic losers here certainly were not.

[Dingo]

It's entirely possible that myself and several others here knew and just didn't like your attitude.

[Scorpio]

davisontech (such an honest sounding pseudonym, unlike say...Scopio LOL)...you seem to think I'm arguing with you - I'm not. I merely pointed out a possible safety issue. I was concerned with it, you were not, so be it but then you got all defensive and started reading things into this that were not there. Were you trying to convince me, or yourself? Attitude, as dingo pointed out, and also being human left me to let you find the TPMS answer yourself, which through a search, you would have found has been discussed on here previously. And that tool, I have one myself, is usually available on Ebay for 20 bucks or less. Again, and sincerely, happy motoring!

[davisontech]

It's entirely possible that myself and several others here knew and just didn't like your attitude.

 

 

davisontech (such an honest sounding pseudonym, unlike say...Scopio LOL)...you seem to think I'm arguing with you - I'm not. I merely pointed out a possible safety issue. I was concerned with it, you were not, so be it but then you got all defensive and started reading things into this that were not there. Were you trying to convince me, or yourself? Attitude, as dingo pointed out, and also being human left me to let you find the TPMS answer yourself, which through a search, you would have found has been discussed on here previously. And that tool, I have one myself, is usually available on Ebay for 20 bucks or less. Again, and sincerely, happy motoring!

 

 

 

 

Sorry to all who held back answers bc they "didnt like my attitude" when I was repeatedly being given Wrong information over and over and was being accused of disregarding my families safety. I really just wanted an answer to my question, not a thread based on Wrong off-topic info....

 

What you did was give me information that was Wrong. If you thought you were right and being helpful, thats great, I had no problem with your first post and explained to you I was at manufacturers recommended levels so nothing to worry about. Thats where it should have ended but you continued to try to push your Wrong information onto me. Then accusing me of not being concerned with safety, even though multiple sources had confirmed that I was running at correct and Safe psi levels....and that your info was Wrong.

 

Just because I dont listen to your Wrong information, doesnt mean I dont care for safety. Matter of fact, if I had listened to your Wrong info and brought my tire level "wayyy" down as you told me to, I would then be driving at a more unsafe psi level and probably damage my wheels/tires in the process. I apologize for being unwilling to listen to your Wrong information.

 

I also got PM on here from other members telling me the correct info, along with another forum....all who were in agreement that you were Wrong. Thanks again to those who PMd me with correct and relevant info....even though I was able to get it fixed before I saw your PM, your time and knowledge was much appreciated.

 

Im done with this thread so have at it.

Edited March 20, 2012 by davisontech

[Waldo]

While 44 psi does seem awfully high to me (and I used to work as a tire engineer), without even knowing which model or size you have, it would be foolish to jump to conclusions about the safety of the setup. However it's almost certain that running a lower pressure will improve stopping distance and probably handling as well.

 

But it's also worth noting that even when you've properly trained the TPMS, it will still be calibrated to the original target pressure of the OEM tires. So it's not going to give you a low pressure warning until a tire gets down to about 25psi, which is a long way from 44! So make sure you regularly check your pressures with an old fashioned gauge.

[Dingo]

While 44 psi does seem awfully high to me (and I used to work as a tire engineer), without even knowing which model or size you have, it would be foolish to jump to conclusions about the safety of the setup. However it's almost certain that running a lower pressure will improve stopping distance and probably handling as well.

 

But it's also worth noting that even when you've properly trained the TPMS, it will still be calibrated to the original target pressure of the OEM tires. So it's not going to give you a low pressure warning until a tire gets down to about 25psi, which is a long way from 44! So make sure you regularly check your pressures with an old fashioned gauge.

And the usual stick gauges aren't even close to reliable.

[Platinum White]

Just a thought.

 

There is a thing in the engineering world called Boyles Gas Law.

In short this law of physics addresses pressure change with an accompanying change in temperature.

As temperature increases so does pressure due to the expansion of a gas (air) with temperature.

This is why, if a vessel (tire) is filled with air at 32 degrees F and the ambient temperature increases to 64 degrees F the tire pressure will also increase.

When a tire rolls, friction is created in the tire due to internal friction in the tire and friction with the road. Friction causes heat, i.e. temperature increase.

 

If you want to minimize the pressure increase due to temperature fill your tires with nitrogen.

 

There is a max pressure on the tire sidewall that does not account for temperature, it is the MAX pressure.

 

Something to think about

[davisontech]

While 44 psi does seem awfully high to me (and I used to work as a tire engineer), without even knowing which model or size you have, it would be foolish to jump to conclusions about the safety of the setup. However it's almost certain that running a lower pressure will improve stopping distance and probably handling as well.

 

But it's also worth noting that even when you've properly trained the TPMS, it will still be calibrated to the original target pressure of the OEM tires. So it's not going to give you a low pressure warning until a tire gets down to about 25psi, which is a long way from 44! So make sure you regularly check your pressures with an old fashioned gauge.

 

Thank you for your on-topic reply, and for not assuming my setup before providing info. My tires are 55 psi max...using the 90% max rule gives me 49.5...I choose to run lower than that at 44 (which is 80% max) for the moment but I may drop/add a couple psi dependent on performance and how the ride is. Like I said, I just got them so will obviously be experimenting, but will stay in the 40+ psi range....as I have with my last 2 trucks with similar setups, without issue.

 

Good point about the pressure warning sensor...I check my pressure 1-2 times a week (when I wash them) with a digital gauge and, of course, visually daily. With my setup, especially my specific tires, I cannot afford to lose too much air pressure in them...If I got down to 25 psi when the sensor actually triggered, I would likely have done some damage to my wheel already.

 

I dont think the TPMS really serves much of a purpose for me...but I just needed that damn Warning/Alert off my dash!

 

Thanks for chiming in.

[davisontech]

Just a thought.

 

There is a thing in the engineering world called Boyles Gas Law.

In short this law of physics addresses pressure change with an accompanying change in temperature.

As temperature increases so does pressure due to the expansion of a gas (air) with temperature.

This is why, if a vessel (tire) is filled with air at 32 degrees F and the ambient temperature increases to 64 degrees F the tire pressure will also increase.

When a tire rolls, friction is created in the tire due to internal friction in the tire and friction with the road. Friction causes heat, i.e. temperature increase.

 

If you want to minimize the pressure increase due to temperature fill your tires with nitrogen.

 

There is a max pressure on the tire sidewall that does not account for temperature, it is the MAX pressure.

 

Something to think about

 

 

I did know that in theory...but I did not know it was called Boyles Gas Law...I will read up on that some more.

 

And they are filled with nitrogen already.

 

Thanks.

[Scorpio]

You still read way too much into what you seem to think others think of you as there may be other issues there, but I digress LOL...and I beg to differ what's wrong here. But again, your decision, and again honestly and sincerely, happy motoring.

[akirby]

So you are suggesting I disregard everything I was told by the reliable wheel companies, speaking with tire manufacturers, tire manufacturers websites, and rim shops, all because a guy named Scorpion on a forum, who knows nothing about my wheels/tires/etc, told me to...That sounds like great, and extremely safe, idea.

 

Not to nit pick, but since you repeatedly point out that you're using the recommendation of tire mfrs websites................

 

From the 2 links you posted above:

 

The optimum tire inflation pressure is indicated on a vehicle placard or vehicle owner's manual.

 

Follow inflation pressure recommendations issued by the automaker

 

If you're running 45 and max on the tire is 55 then that's probably not unsafe but it's certainly higher than recommended by Ford. And it's not necessarily the best pressure, either, regardless of what your tire ninjas say.

 

And yes - attitude is everything when you're looking for advice.

[Waldo]

There is a max pressure on the tire sidewall that does not account for temperature, it is the MAX pressure.

 

 

False, the max pressure is the max COLD pressure - it does account for temperature increases.

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=196

[e350 coupe]

45 PSI is WAYYYY too high!!! That's the maximum the tire can hold, check your door jamb sticker or driver's manual for correct pressure.

 

SCORPIO

 

I appreciate your assistance and your comments. I understand that you were attempting to give "constructive criticism".

 

I see absolutely no reason for "davisontech" comments.

 

As far as "davisontech comment of

 

The psi has been checked and verified by 3 separate people including tirerack.com, another big online wheel dealer, and the tire manufacturer itself. I also personally know a number of people at my local rim shop that run in the 40-45 range without any issues.

 

I do not know of any tire manufacturer who recommends a tire pressure, this is always left to the maker of the vehicle as each tire has different characteristics for a specific vehicle. Another reason is also liability in the event of a tire blow out from excessive pressure.

 

An example of this is the 2012 focus sport and the 2010 mercedes amy all come with the Michelin PS3 tire size 235/40/18. In the Focus the recommended tire pressure is 32 psi where as the Mercedes is specified as 41 psi and the maximum psi on the sidewall which is a requirement of law is 51 psi.

 

As you can see on the 2012 Focus the tire is inflated at 62.7% of maximum pressure and the Mercedes is inflated at 80.3%.

 

"Scorpio" I am impressed at your restraint in your comment

 

No pissing contest, just concerned for your safety...but since you don't seem to be, well happy motoring

 

but I failed to see where you accused "Davisontech" of

 

Since you want to accuse me of not caring for the safety of myself and my family....

 

"Dingo" your comment although might appear insulting to "Davisontech", it fits the mood of the thread as "Davisontech" is using a speaker magnet to activate his TPMS sensors when any forum would have told him to use the $20 ford resetting tool, and suddenly he is an expert on tire pressure and when simple constructive criticism was offered got extremely defensive and insulting.

 

Go to the tire authorities that you mentioned with your problem. Since they're all tire ninjas, they'll have the solution.

 

I have to agree with both Scorpio and Dingo people come to "Forums" demanding information and making insane comments then think they are entitled to insult anyone who does not agree with them, I'm sorry "Davisontech" given your attitude I would have been tempted to have made the same comments.

 

Now as for the facts of this posting which originally deals with the proper way to re-set TPMS sensors. You do in fact need the specific magnet which is in the tool you mentioned, and as you found out you need the correct procedure for your specific type of ignition, for which you found posted at the "Tirerack" site. I have copied this information and leave it in the vehicle with my reset tool.

 

Now as for specifics, the TPMS sensor will not trigger low pressure until less then 25% loss of air and thus your sensors will not trigger until your 45 PSI tires drop to approximately 33 PSI. If you do not like this 11.25 psi differential you could always inflate your tires to say 52 psi reset your system at this reading and then lower your tires to 45 psi and then the low pressure will now trigger when your tires drop below 39 psi.

 

As for the actual pressure you choose, I was unable to find the actual recommended tire pressure by Ford for your vehicle. If you had 18" or 20" then the pressure is 35 psi for both front and rear. 45 psi is in my opinion way to high as mentioned by "Scorpio"

 

Running to high can cause numerous problems as we must consider the following items, profile of tire and use of tire. If this tire is run on highway conditions for any longer then 10 minutes we then add 2-4 psi for hot tire inflation, thus the 45 psi then becomes 49 psi and places the tire in an over inflated position where the center tread protrude outwards, thus defeating any purpose in having wide low profile tires to begin with.

 

I have done extensive testing of tires in over 3 decades of investigation both for company research and personal use.

 

If you really want the correct tire pressure for your vehicle with your exact tires on the rims you are using then you need a laser thermometer.

 

You start with a given psi as specified on your door decal and run down the highway say for 15 minutes.

 

Then using the laser take 3 measurements from both the front and rear tires, being the center, inner and outer.

 

Now if the center is hotter then the inner or outer, this means your psi is to high and you are driving on the center of the tread.

 

If the inner or outer temperature is higher then the center then you are riding on the edges and thus you need more air in the tire.

 

After doing this a couple of times you will get the perfect pressure for your exact car set up based on your vehicle with passengers and amount of vehicle you normally carry.

 

I generally then average the left and right tire per axle, and use this as my guide for adjusting both front and rear tire pressure for optima effect.

 

By doing this you will not only get the perfect psi for performance but will also get the optimal pressure for maximum tread life.

 

You should do this initially upon installing new tires then after 500 miles of use as tire conditions change once they have been broken in.

 

As I mentioned previously being a recently retired Police officer I have 32 years 2 months and 9 days of investigative experience. I spent over a Decade in Accident investigation and I am qualified as an accident analysis, and re-constructionist. In my opinion the two most important items are tires and brakes and tire pressure is the single most important issue that can affect a tire.

 

The comments made by both Scorpio and Dingo are of concern for you, and I'm my opinion they are not trying to ridicule you in any way.

Edited March 20, 2012 by e350 coupe

[davisontech]

Not to nit pick, but since you repeatedly point out that you're using the recommendation of tire mfrs websites................

 

From the 2 links you posted above:

 

 

 

If you're running 45 and max on the tire is 55 then that's probably not unsafe but it's certainly higher than recommended by Ford. And it's not necessarily the best pressure, either, regardless of what your tire ninjas say.

 

And yes - attitude is everything when you're looking for advice.

 

 

Fair enough assumption about my referral to manufacturer websites, but the links are inferring to use the placard/manual on the vehicle for my tire pressure is IF I was to swap my tires with the Same size tire on the Stock wheel (basically just replacement tires), which isnt the case here....and I have previously verified that info with multiple tire manufacturers as well.

 

I have a completely different, and Very far from stock, wheel and tire setup...which has different requirements than what Ford recommends for their stock wheels (which is what is on the vehicle placard/manual). My 22" wheel setup is not going to have the same psi recommendations as a 18" stock Ford wheel setup that came on the truck....therefore I cant follow Fords guidelines, as it has nothing to do with the wheels and tires I am running. Apples and oranges.

 

I need to follow the recommendations of my tire manufacturer as it pertains to my specific setup and the load of my vehicle.

[davisontech]

 

SCORPIO

 

I appreciate your assistance and your comments. I understand that you were attempting to give "constructive criticism".

 

I see absolutely no reason for "davisontech" comments.

 

As far as "davisontech comment of

 

The psi has been checked and verified by 3 separate people including tirerack.com, another big online wheel dealer, and the tire manufacturer itself. I also personally know a number of people at my local rim shop that run in the 40-45 range without any issues.

 

I do not know of any tire manufacturer who recommends a tire pressure, this is always left to the maker of the vehicle as each tire has different characteristics for a specific vehicle. Another reason is also liability in the event of a tire blow out from excessive pressure.

 

An example of this is the 2012 focus sport and the 2010 mercedes amy all come with the Michelin PS3 tire size 235/40/18. In the Focus the recommended tire pressure is 32 psi where as the Mercedes is specified as 41 psi and the maximum psi on the sidewall which is a requirement of law is 51 psi.

 

As you can see on the 2012 Focus the tire is inflated at 62.7% of maximum pressure and the Mercedes is inflated at 80.3%.

 

"Scorpio" I am impressed at your restraint in your comment

 

No pissing contest, just concerned for your safety...but since you don't seem to be, well happy motoring

 

but I failed to see where you accused "Davisontech" of

 

Since you want to accuse me of not caring for the safety of myself and my family....

 

"Dingo" your comment although might appear insulting to "Davisontech", it fits the mood of the thread as "Davisontech" is using a speaker magnet to activate his TPMS sensors when any forum would have told him to use the $20 ford resetting tool, and suddenly he is an expert on tire pressure and when simple constructive criticism was offered got extremely defensive and insulting.

 

Go to the tire authorities that you mentioned with your problem. Since they're all tire ninjas, they'll have the solution.

 

I have to agree with both Scorpio and Dingo people come to "Forums" demanding information and making insane comments then think they are entitled to insult anyone who does not agree with them, I'm sorry "Davisontech" given your attitude I would have been tempted to have made the same comments.

 

Now as for the facts of this posting which originally deals with the proper way to re-set TPMS sensors. You do in fact need the specific magnet which is in the tool you mentioned, and as you found out you need the correct procedure for your specific type of ignition, for which you found posted at the "Tirerack" site. I have copied this information and leave it in the vehicle with my reset tool.

 

Now as for specifics, the TPMS sensor will not trigger low pressure until less then 25% loss of air and thus your sensors will not trigger until your 45 PSI tires drop to approximately 33 PSI. If you do not like this 11.25 psi differential you could always inflate your tires to say 52 psi reset your system at this reading and then lower your tires to 45 psi and then the low pressure will now trigger when your tires drop below 39 psi.

 

As for the actual pressure you choose, I was unable to find the actual recommended tire pressure by Ford for your vehicle. If you had 18" or 20" then the pressure is 35 psi for both front and rear. 45 psi is in my opinion way to high as mentioned by "Scorpio"

 

Running to high can cause numerous problems as we must consider the following items, profile of tire and use of tire. If this tire is run on highway conditions for any longer then 10 minutes we then add 2-4 psi for hot tire inflation, thus the 45 psi then becomes 49 psi and places the tire in an over inflated position where the center tread protrude outwards, thus defeating any purpose in having wide low profile tires to begin with.

 

I have done extensive testing of tires in over 3 decades of investigation both for company research and personal use.

 

If you really want the correct tire pressure for your vehicle with your exact tires on the rims you are using then you need a laser thermometer.

 

You start with a given psi as specified on your door decal and run down the highway say for 15 minutes.

 

Then using the laser take 3 measurements from both the front and rear tires, being the center, inner and outer.

 

Now if the center is hotter then the inner or outer, this means your psi is to high and you are driving on the center of the tread.

 

If the inner or outer temperature is higher then the center then you are riding on the edges and thus you need more air in the tire.

 

After doing this a couple of times you will get the perfect pressure for your exact car set up based on your vehicle with passengers and amount of vehicle you normally carry.

 

I generally then average the left and right tire per axle, and use this as my guide for adjusting both front and rear tire pressure for optima effect.

 

By doing this you will not only get the perfect psi for performance but will also get the optimal pressure for maximum tread life.

 

You should do this initially upon installing new tires then after 500 miles of use as tire conditions change once they have been broken in.

 

As I mentioned previously being a recently retired Police officer I have 32 years 2 months and 9 days of investigative experience. I spent over a Decade in Accident investigation and I am qualified as an accident analysis, and re-constructionist. In my opinion the two most important items are tires and brakes and tire pressure is the single most important issue that can affect a tire.

 

The comments made by both Scorpio and Dingo are of concern for you, and I'm my opinion they are not trying to ridicule you in any way.

 

 

[Dingo]

e350, you overestimate my benevolence. I was more intending to point out the obvious fact that he had allegedly assembled a panel of well-reputed wheel and tire industry experts to confer over his tire pressure, yet came to a forum site to ask about TPMS sensors. That fact leads me to be dubious of his claim regarding his tire pressure, since such well-reputed experts should also know about TPMS sensor programming, as it is a required part of their occupation.

[e350 coupe]

Davisontech

 

You know I've seen people like you before, you get a joy of breathing conflict, just to get a reaction, I will, and ask others, to end this post which will bring an end to this posting.