Edgar Edgeworthy Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 My 2011 Ltd. idles in park at about 600 rpm with the a/c on. Does that sound about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankster Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 My 2011 Ltd. idles in park at about 600 rpm with the a/c on. Does that sound about right? Yes - All computer controlled per sensor inputs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Sounds right to me. I'm glad it doesn't idle any higher for MPG reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Edgeworthy Posted May 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Sounds right to me. I'm glad it doesn't idle any higher for MPG reasons. Yes, MPG is the reason I started this topic. I've been disappointed in my mileage (and I don't have the lead foot syndrome) and the 600 RPM idle just sounds high when I stand next to the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yes, MPG is the reason I started this topic. I've been disappointed in my mileage (and I don't have the lead foot syndrome) and the 600 RPM idle just sounds high when I stand next to the car. Sounds high? does it not sound like 600? What kind of engine layout are you used to? I'm coming from a 5 cylinder car that idled at 850-950 rpm, so its a nice change to be less high strung. The Edge, being a 6 cylinder, still sparks 1800 times in a minute at idle (6cyl * 600rpm * 0.5 spark per rotation) compared to a 4 Cylinder that idles 600 (e.g. Honda) would spark only 1200 times in that same minute. What kind of mileage are you getting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Edgeworthy Posted May 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Sounds high? does it not sound like 600? What kind of engine layout are you used to? I'm coming from a 5 cylinder car that idled at 850-950 rpm, so its a nice change to be less high strung. The Edge, being a 6 cylinder, still sparks 1800 times in a minute at idle (6cyl * 600rpm * 0.5 spark per rotation) compared to a 4 Cylinder that idles 600 (e.g. Honda) would spark only 1200 times in that same minute. What kind of mileage are you getting? About half-and-half city/highway miles and getting 16-17 mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 About half-and-half city/highway miles and getting 16-17 mph. That's is a bit low. I'm getting about 19 MPG with a 50-50 mix (LA commute traffic) on 18" wheels. That includes about 30-60 seconds idle upon start and about 2-3 minutes idle when dropping my kid off at daycare before I hit the road and then 30-60 seconds idle before I go home. I also noticed that my mileage is better when I switch the display between the 10 minute fuel efficiency and instant efficiency screens. I guess psychologically, I'm coasting longer and hitting less kick downs when I keep an eye on the gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Edgeworthy Posted May 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 That's is a bit low. I'm getting about 19 MPG with a 50-50 mix (LA commute traffic) on 18" wheels. That includes about 30-60 seconds idle upon start and about 2-3 minutes idle when dropping my kid off at daycare before I hit the road and then 30-60 seconds idle before I go home. I also noticed that my mileage is better when I switch the display between the 10 minute fuel efficiency and instant efficiency screens. I guess psychologically, I'm coasting longer and hitting less kick downs when I keep an eye on the gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Edgeworthy Posted May 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Think my 20 inch wheels could be the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Sounds high? does it not sound like 600? What kind of engine layout are you used to? I'm coming from a 5 cylinder car that idled at 850-950 rpm, so its a nice change to be less high strung. The Edge, being a 6 cylinder, still sparks 1800 times in a minute at idle (6cyl * 600rpm * 0.5 spark per rotation) compared to a 4 Cylinder that idles 600 (e.g. Honda) would spark only 1200 times in that same minute. What kind of mileage are you getting? Your math is correct for an engine with an ignition distributor. I think that you might find that the ignition system in this case has no distributor and fires each plug at least once for every revoultion of the crankshaft. In other words, the crankshaft sensor triggers spark for both the compression and the exhaust stroke. The voltage required for the exhaust stroke firing is very low compared to the power stroke firing. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Your math is correct for an engine with an ignition distributor. I think that you might find that the ignition system in this case has no distributor and fires each plug at least once for every revoultion of the crankshaft. In other words, the crankshaft sensor triggers spark for both the compression and the exhaust stroke. The voltage required for the exhaust stroke firing is very low compared to the power stroke firing. . Didn't know that... I assume that these exhaust stroke sparks are inaudible/undetectable to the naked ear though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Your math is correct for an engine with an ignition distributor. I think that you might find that the ignition system in this case has no distributor and fires each plug at least once for every revoultion of the crankshaft. In other words, the crankshaft sensor triggers spark for both the compression and the exhaust stroke. The voltage required for the exhaust stroke firing is very low compared to the power stroke firing. . Why would it need to fire on the exhaust stroke? I would have thought the crankshaft sensor fed the PCM and the PCM decided when to fire each plug. Or are you saying it's programmed to fire on the exhaust stroke on purpose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Why would it need to fire on the exhaust stroke? I would have thought the crankshaft sensor fed the PCM and the PCM decided when to fire each plug. Or are you saying it's programmed to fire on the exhaust stroke on purpose? It's a whole lot easier and helps the final burn of the mixture--- The extreme lean mixtures we have today take a long time to burn and continue the burn right through the exhaust stroke. The crankshaft sensor does feed the PCM and the PCM is programmed to let the spark happen on every stroke. . Chrysler also uses a camshaft sensor and that allows firing only on the compression stroke. I've been out of the loop for a few years, so one of the Ford techs will have to confirm as to whether or not Fords's system uses a camshaft sensor also. The vehicles with what is called "coil paks" fire each revoultion of the crankshaft. It's possible that Ford uses a cam sensor, but I haven't been able to find the info so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 It's a whole lot easier and helps the final burn of the mixture--- The extreme lean mixtures we have today take a long time to burn and continue the burn right through the exhaust stroke. The crankshaft sensor does feed the PCM and the PCM is programmed to let the spark happen on every stroke. . Chrysler also uses a camshaft sensor and that allows firing only on the compression stroke. I've been out of the loop for a few years, so one of the Ford techs will have to confirm as to whether or not Fords's system uses a camshaft sensor also. The vehicles with what is called "coil paks" fire each revoultion of the crankshaft. It's possible that Ford uses a cam sensor, but I haven't been able to find the info so far. Volvos (world I come from) have been using coil packs since about 98 or 99 with a variable cam. They are 4 stroke engines, but they only spark compression with the crank sensor for reference. Sparking on exhaust on those engines would be no good as they run stoich off-boost, but on-boost, they run rich to avoid detonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Volvos (world I come from) have been using coil packs since about 98 or 99 with a variable cam. They are 4 stroke engines, but they only spark compression with the crank sensor for reference. Sparking on exhaust on those engines would be no good as they run stoich off-boost, but on-boost, they run rich to avoid detonation. I know for a fact that Ford, when they went to the EDIS with coil paks, fired on each revolution of the crank-- Now that they have "coil on plug" they may have added a cam sensor, but I don't think so--- Where are all the Ford Techs when you need one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankster Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Your math is correct for an engine with an ignition distributor. I think that you might find that the ignition system in this case has no distributor and fires each plug at least once for every revoultion of the crankshaft. In other words, the crankshaft sensor triggers spark for both the compression and the exhaust stroke. The voltage required for the exhaust stroke firing is very low compared to the power stroke firing. . There is absolutely no spark on the exhaust stroke of the edge or any internal combustion engine for that matter. Your exhausting the burned air/fuel mixture from the cylinder so why would that need spark.......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 There is absolutely no spark on the exhaust stroke of the edge or any internal combustion engine for that matter. Your exhausting the burned air/fuel mixture from the cylinder so why would that need spark.......? And your information source comes from where? Mine is here--- may not be used on current coil on plug engines, but until we get an answer from a Ford Tech, why don't your read this and then come back and re-state what you just posted. http://www.alternativeauto.com/waterbox/wb_archives/edis.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 There is absolutely no spark on the exhaust stroke of the edge or any internal combustion engine for that matter. Your exhausting the burned air/fuel mixture from the cylinder so why would that need spark.......? That's what I thought but if you google it you'll see it does exist. It appears to be done more for convenience - there are no performance gains which is why it's called Wasted Spark. E.g. in a V6 it will send spark to 2 cylinders at the same time when both cylinders are at TDC - one is on the compression stroke and the other on the exhaust stroke. The one on the exhaust stroke is "wasted". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yes, there is camshaft sensors on our Edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Yes, there is camshaft sensors on our Edges. I just looked at the ignition system parts breakdown and--- they do use a camshaft sensor on these engines. Looks like the change was made when they started the "coil on plug" system. As I said, I have been out of the loop for a while, but never too old to learn new tricks! Edited May 27, 2011 by flyerjmr33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.