ignition coil malfunction

[Pete K]

My only issue is your assertion that Ford is purposely denying a claim that they know is valid. I don't believe that because they have fixed others and covered it under the emissions warranty with no questions asked. It's all in how the dealer presents it to Ford.

 

All Ford sees is that you replaced some parts on your own and you don't have a dealer standing up for you saying that it was the PCM that was bad in the first place and that all the coils had to be replaced. You don't have a Ford dealer diagnosis that says the PCM is bad. Ford's position on this is understandable given the circumstances.

 

I'm not blaming you because you checked with the dealer. I'm blaming the dealer and that's who I think you should sue IF you have the evidence of what they told you.

 

Good points. I can certainly understand a manufacturer not willing to open up their wallet because someone asks for it. Chain of command must be followed in any situation, thats for sure.

Once the ball started rolling into an out of warranty position by the dealer, I did the right thing for me. Fixed it as per the TSB (which was a coincidence). I just wanted to do the right thig, and I planned to keep it until I traded it in on a new one.

NO WAY was I going to leave it at the dealer, and open myself up to a $2500 plus repair bill.

Remember, no warranty (so says the dealer) =full whack on labor and parts.

However, that does not change liability. That is a key point.

The TSB states that the PCM is deem faulty, once more than 1 coil pack code comes up. So whether it was me, or the Ford tech, TBS protocol calls for changing the PCM. I was told (and who knows if it is true) that you cannot bench test a PCM. Defect is determined by symptoms.

Because I cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube, I am asking for something very reasonable. I am asking that someone at Ford says "How may I help you"?

If I could get to that point, I can produce documentation, broken parts, tow receipts, photos etc.

All of this combined will create an evidence package that would cause any reasonable manufacturers rep to consider doing the right thing.

 

Afterall, what reasonable person:

Tows a car home

Discoveres melted coil packs

Scans car to determine codes

replaces plugs and coil packs

Replaces PCM

Tows car to dealer for PCM flashing

Wipes out their checking acount for approx $1500

 

For no good reason?

 

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it is a duck. I just want an opportunity to present my case to someone at Ford.

If someone from Ford was actually willing to sit down with me, and negotiate this problem, I would have no thoughts to go legal. Time is my only non renewable resource, so I wont devote a ton of time to it, moving forward.

 

Problem is no one will say "How may I help you"

 

I will call a second dealer to try to discuss this next week. A phone call to them also (a few weeks ago) confirmed they were not willing to assist. Worth anothoer phone call though.

[akirby]

This is what Ford hears.

 

"Hey - I had this problem with my car so I changed the PCM and all the coils on my own and now I want you to pay for it."

 

How do they know you diagnosed it correctly? How do they know it wasn't a wire gnawed by a rat?

 

Now multiply your situation by hundreds that happen every year (maybe thousands) and you should be able to understand why Ford can't just take your word for it.

 

I think if you had a dealer diagnosis before the repair was performed then it would be a different response.

 

If you still don't understand Ford's position then you're not being logical. And I do hope you get the dealer to reimburse you for the parts since they lied to you.

[Pete K]

Below are some links to similar Ford cars and trucks with the same problem.

 

Mods: If this violates the rules, please delete them. I am not looking to upset the apple cart, only educate.

 

http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/ford-escape/643-2005-ford-escape-pcm-ecm-computer-failure-5.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1034246-engine-misfire-pcm-failure-2005-escape.html

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/Escape/2005/electrical/Powertrain_Control_Module_PCM_failure.shtml

http://www.ford-forums.com/ford-escape-f35/2005-escape-pcm-failure-t47688.html

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/Freestar/2005/electrical/PCM_failure.shtml

http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/ford-escape/643-2005-ford-escape-pcm-ecm-computer-failure.html

http://s1285.gridserver.com/Ford/Escape/2005/engine/pcm_failure.shtml

http://www.ford-forums.com/ford-escape-f35/topic45093.html

[Pete K]

This is what Ford hears.

 

"Hey - I had this problem with my car so I changed the PCM and all the coils on my own and now I want you to pay for it."

 

How do they know you diagnosed it correctly? How do they know it wasn't a wire gnawed by a rat?

 

Now multiply your situation by hundreds that happen every year (maybe thousands) and you should be able to understand why Ford can't just take your word for it.

 

I think if you had a dealer diagnosis before the repair was performed then it would be a different response.

 

If you still don't understand Ford's position then you're not being logical. And I do hope you get the dealer to reimburse you for the parts since they lied to you.

 

Again, Ford would not allow me to discuss. I was told no. No warranty. Drop it off, and trust us, or fix it yourself.

Worst case now, is I am out $1500

Worst case there way resulted in a possible $2500 loss (dealer price on parts and labor).

Option 3 would be that they call me up and say:

"Guess what? You were right. We fixed your car at no charge to you. This is a common problem on Ford vehicles, and we fixed you up becuase we value you as a customer".

Option 3 would be preferred, sure. Realistically, do you think there was even a remote chance of that happening (assuming my version of the facts is true)?

Getting re-imbursed from someone is my second concern. First concern is educating as many people as I can.

Now, (unless someone from the dealer or Ford steps in) I only have to convince the judge. They have denyed me my due process.

 

Even if I recover nothing, Fords refusal to sit at a table to discuss their potential liability (how may I help you) will eliminate any chance of my immediate family purchasing another Ford vehicle.

As far as my daily driver is concerned, there are dozens out there I would be happy to own. It is a tool to make my life move along. I dont need to be loyal, or love any 1 manufacturer.

My wife bought a new Hyundai Santa Fe the week after I bought my Edge. You wouldnt catch me in one, but after 88,000 miles, all warranty claims were handled with no stress. 2 of them were out of warranty, and they fudged the paperwork (only a $20 part and a $40) to make her happy. She didnt even ask them to help. They just did it. Point is, other manufacturers (US and Foreign) make attempts to resolve issues. Maybe it is because she has boobs, who knows.

They (Ford) lose worse than I do.

Please read some of the links I posted in the thread above. Alot of poor people who do not have the means to fix their own car have been let down by Ford. This "deny till you die" thing isn't only affecting me.

 

One last point that I feel should be made:

I was lucky. Very lucky.

While traveling in the middle lane of a busy interstate at 65 mph, my problem occurred. This dropped my max speed to 20 mph, making it very hard to get to a safe location, without getting hit by a semi.

Fortunately, it was about 4am, and minimal traffic on the road. I got to a point of safety unscathed.

What happens when this situation occurs with a mother and 3 small children during rush hour?

People could be seriously injured or killed because of this documented design/part shortcoming.

Ford is nuts to continue to bury this problem. Someone could eventually get hurt, and that would be horrible.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Pete K

[Pete K]

Sounds like the dealer screwed you, not Ford. If you have the TSB and proof they said it wasn't covered by the emissions warranty then you should have an open and shut small claims case against the dealer.

 

 

That is my hope too.

What will work against me is that all of my correspondence with the local dealer was verbal. My word against theirs. If they are shifty, they can easily say "we never spoke to this guy, or we would have helped him".

I had 2 of the dealer employees feed me info, and beg me not to get them involved for fear of retaliation from their boss. I won't squeal them out. I would rather lose the $1500.

Remember that the dealer is Fords direct agent, and they should be accountable for their agents.

 

Based on the recent history, I would expect them to deny.

Nothing for them to lose by saying the above.

[akirby]

Remember that the dealer is Fords direct agent, and they should be accountable for their agents.

 

Not really. Ford would love to hold their dealers accountable for anything but the fact is that state automotive franchise laws that were enacted decades ago protect the dealers from Ford. Ford can't control the dealers or tell them how to run their business. Unless the dealer is doing something illegal their hands are tied. There is nothing Ford can do about it.

[Pete K]

Not really. Ford would love to hold their dealers accountable for anything but the fact is that state automotive franchise laws that were enacted decades ago protect the dealers from Ford. Ford can't control the dealers or tell them how to run their business. Unless the dealer is doing something illegal their hands are tied. There is nothing Ford can do about it.

That is a shame.

My company (construction products, not auto related) holds our agents accountable as if they were employees.

If I can get them to listen(Ford), at least they may have a heads up. One would hope that multiple complaints may put their dealer status is a compromising position.

Ford did send me 2 online surveys over a week ago.

1 was for my dealership experience (flashing the new PCM) and 1 was in response to the 1800 phone call.

Both asked if I would like further follow up by each. I replied yes.

Who knows. Maybe a human will eventually read them, and someone will contact me. So far, 1 week resulted in now communications.

[Littlenardo]

I picked up my 2008 Edge this morning from the dealer. It was in for a week. They replaced all 6 coil packs, 6 spark plugs and the pcm, plus the three gaskets and another key. They referenced the TSB dated 11-8-2. My cost was $0.00.

 

I had 79,545 miles on it when I scanned the codes PO300, PO301, PO302, PO351, PO352, PO354 set the check engine light 2 weeks ago. I brought it to the dealer to diagnose it. They called me yesterday and told me it was all done and there was no charge.

 

The only complaint I have is the lack off communication. When calling the dealer It is all automated and you get transferred to voice mails. I had to call twice during the week to check on the status. The first time I was connected to the advisor and the second time I left a voice mail which he returned the next day to tell me it was ready. When I picked it up today, the LOT GUY helped me. Told me the cashier had the keys. I never spoke to an advisor. I did check the car. I can see four new coil packs and I had to replace the wiring harness back into the valve cover.

 

I was anticipating a fight. Other than the complaints I had, they did know of the problem and told me it is also happens to the Escape.

They said the spark plugs create a resistance that over loads the coil packs, in turn, damages the PCM driver. Quite the opposite from the earlier posts.

[Littlenardo]

I returned my edge back to the dealer tonight. The car ran fine until the check engine light came on yesterday.

The code is P0420. I don't know what the code really means. I was told the catalytic converter would be affected by the coil problem.

I'll know more tomorrow after they look at it.

[Pattons]

2007 Ford Edge: 62,000 miles

I recently had issues with code p0351. Took to the dealership for service and after a wait on parts, got the coil pack and plug for cylinder 1 replaced. They called and said the PCM shorted out while we drove with the bad pack and plug.

They were able to get the PCM covered under emissions warranty. Only paid for the pack, plug, and labor. Ford even paid for a rental car since the parts were taking so long to come in. I got the TSB off of vrodpete, they said they are looking into

these issues and trying to decide how to handle them. The dealer did everything could to help me out. Not what I expected but nice to see some of them still care

[Littlenardo]

I returned my edge back to the dealer tonight. The car ran fine until the check engine light came on yesterday.

The code is P0420. I don't know what the code really means. I was told the catalytic converter would be affected by the coil problem.

I'll know more tomorrow after they look at it.

 

 

As stated on the invoice, "The cat broke up and damaged the down stream converter, Replaced both converters."

 

The dealer replaced the catalytic converters. Again, it was covered under the warranty, no charge.

It just took two weeks to get it back. The parts needed to be ordered in.

So far , so good.

[Pete K]

Just to update my situation, I received a check for full re-imbursement covering 100% of my out of pocket repairs.

[JOEHIO]

:happy feet:

 

Halaluliah ! Glad to hear this.

Joe

Edited February 26, 2012 by JOEHIO

[nporter1]

been reading a lot on here......my parents bought an edge a few weeks ago its a 2008 with less than 50k miles. after driving it only a few thousand miles it started missing horribly. when i scanned it i got misfire and coil codes. since the dealer would not give me specifications and procedures on how to test the coils i switched their cylinders to see if the miss followed. when the same cylinders were found to be missing i called the dealer again asking if they had heard of any pcm issues. they said no and asked me to bring the vehicle in. after they looked at the edge they determined all 6 coils, plugs and the pcm needed changed as maintanance for the cost of $2500. called ford they talked to the dealer and determined that the coils burnt up and caused the pcm to burn up. ive tinkered with cars for a while so this all sounds like a heap of BS. they said if the pcm had caused it then ford would cover it........wow even if i believed the coils killed the pcm i would still be pissed that the coils failed simultaneously. further still why were they engineered so that they burnt up the pcm (poor product developement, faulty product) so now that ford told us to get bent does anyone know any decent lawyers in the ohio area. i honestly dont thnk i will ever buy a ford new or used.......the service has been awful my questions get answered with questions i never asked. can any techs out there explain to me how if even possible the coils can fry the pcm when the pcm controls the coils. theres wayy tooo much of these similar cases for me to roll over and let ford win

[akirby]

been reading a lot on here......my parents bought an edge a few weeks ago its a 2008 with less than 50k miles. after driving it only a few thousand miles it started missing horribly. when i scanned it i got misfire and coil codes. since the dealer would not give me specifications and procedures on how to test the coils i switched their cylinders to see if the miss followed. when the same cylinders were found to be missing i called the dealer again asking if they had heard of any pcm issues. they said no and asked me to bring the vehicle in. after they looked at the edge they determined all 6 coils, plugs and the pcm needed changed as maintanance for the cost of $2500. called ford they talked to the dealer and determined that the coils burnt up and caused the pcm to burn up. ive tinkered with cars for a while so this all sounds like a heap of BS. they said if the pcm had caused it then ford would cover it........wow even if i believed the coils killed the pcm i would still be pissed that the coils failed simultaneously. further still why were they engineered so that they burnt up the pcm (poor product developement, faulty product) so now that ford told us to get bent does anyone know any decent lawyers in the ohio area. i honestly dont thnk i will ever buy a ford new or used.......the service has been awful my questions get answered with questions i never asked. can any techs out there explain to me how if even possible the coils can fry the pcm when the pcm controls the coils. theres wayy tooo much of these similar cases for me to roll over and let ford win

 

I think your dealer is hosing you. They're telling Ford the coils are at fault rather than the PCM. Did they even check the TSB? Get the dealer to check the TSB and if they won't tell Ford the PCM is at fault find another dealer.

 

Ford has replaced PCMs, plugs and coils all under the emissions warranty on numerous vehicles with no questions asked.

Edited March 20, 2012 by akirby

[I8ACHEVY]

Lots of info folks!

I started reading this thread because I have an 07 with 108K miles on it and am looking at buying plugs to perform a tune up. I had no idea about the COP and PCM issues!

Since you guys have been thru this.

#1, does anyone have a copy or can point me to the TSB?

#2, I am definitely not under warranty anymore, but this still pisses me off because it's an apparent defect

#3, Are ALL 07-08 Edges affected or does it depend on a certain time of build? Just trying to figure out if I am 100% exposed.

#4, If I decide I want to keep this car, is there anything I should replace along with the plugs to proactively keep this from happening? Do I need to replace the plugs AND COPs AND order a PCM? I'd almost be game with replacing the plugs and COPs as a maintenance, but if the PCM is what's causing the problem, then that's a waste.

If the answer is to replace ALL of those parts, I am almost willing to let it ride and take my chances. Crazy to see these failing with less than 50K miles. Does it mean that because I am over 100, I am out of the woods?

I should add that I'd be doing the work myself, so the whole 1000s of dollars to Ford is not gonna happen.

 

Thanks for any input guys!

[akirby]

If you don't already have a coil issue then don't worry about it. You should change the plugs no matter what but unless you're getting misfires don't worry about changing anything.

[ls973800]

Since you guys have been thru this.

#1, does anyone have a copy or can point me to the TSB?

 

Post #24 on this thread has a working link to the TSB.

[I8ACHEVY]

Since you guys have been thru this.

#1, does anyone have a copy or can point me to the TSB?

 

Post #24 on this thread has a working link to the TSB.

Thanks, I actually went back and re read and realized I missed it. I appreciate that. I may just very well take akirby's advice and just do the plugs under normal maintenance. No reason to pull the trigger on OCPs and PCM if they are not giving me a reason.

If the problem does hit me, I guess the only real thing that sucks would be to have to take the manifold off again to get to the backside COPs.

[akirby]

Thanks, I actually went back and re read and realized I missed it. I appreciate that. I may just very well take akirby's advice and just do the plugs under normal maintenance. No reason to pull the trigger on OCPs and PCM if they are not giving me a reason.

If the problem does hit me, I guess the only real thing that sucks would be to have to take the manifold off again to get to the backside COPs.

 

I don't think the problem is due to mileage so it's probably just as likely that if you replaced the PCM and coils now they go bad and you have to replace them again.

 

You wouldn't replace the coils anyway - it's the PCM that causes the damage.

 

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Chances are it won't happen.

[Dan Fokema]

Im having trouble with this same coil problem on my wifes 08 edge with 44K, gave the TSB to the dealer and they said it was out of date and they checked the VIN on the car and there is no TSB's? They are also telling me the coil is under power train warranty and thats expired. Called Ford and they told me my power train warranty dose not expire until July 31 of this year?? I also found in the warranty book for the edge where it lists the coil under the emissions warranty?? Ford opened up a case on the this and has contacted the dealership, but them saying the TSB is out of date and my warranty is done was done AFTER ford told them to fix it??

 

not sure where to go from here

 

PS the dealer wants $340 just to fix the one coil?

[MJR113]

I'm having the same coil problem on my 2009 Edge. It looks like the TSB doesn't apply to the 2009 model year - does anyone know if there's another TSB that applies to 2009 Edge?

[Dan Fokema]

my 08 edge only had a code for a bad coil and that code didnt fall under the TSB so i got stuck with a $300 bill for a new coil

[Dan Fokema]

MJR, what engine and is it FWD or AWD? Is it a single coil? Do you know what the codes are its giving?

 

without that info i did fine TSB 11-6-1

 

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3543/tsb11-06-01.pdf

[HappyEdgeOwner]

I felt it was important to take the time to reply to this posting in this forum since it saved me the cost of the full repair on my 2008 Ford Edge. On a recent trip the car began hesitating in heavy traffic North of Atlanta, GA. I ended up spending the night in Calhoun, GA and was at Prater Ford when it opened the next morning. Once the issue was diagnosed I began researching and came upon this forum. After bringing this forum and the issue to the attention of the service department at Prater Ford, they did more research and confirmed that this issue was indeed covered by the 8 year/80,000 mile Ford warranty. All parts and labor were covered by Ford. Unfortunately, the PCM had to be ordered and would not be in for four days and Ford would not cover the cost of a rental car. So, for the cost of a rental car to continue on my trip, Prater Ford ordered the parts and repaired my Edge at no cost to me. The vehicle was ready upon our return trip and has been running fine ever since.

I am very thankful for this forum, otherwise I would have gotten a partial repair which would have caused more problems later and would have paid for the experience.

It is important to do your homework. I was a female traveling out of state with my disabled Mom and Prater Ford in Calhoun, GA took care of us!