60,000 mile service - $$$ charge?

[Ghastly]

Hey all,

 

I have my 2008 Edge Limited with 57,000 miles in for the rear bearing and PTU issues. Both have been fixed under the TSB's and warranty.

 

While they have the vehicle, I figured I would have the 60,000 mile service done. The dealership quoted me an approximate price of $499.00.

 

Is this a correct list of the services that should be performed?

 

Change engine oil and replace oil filter

Rotate and inspect tires; check wheel end play and turning noise

Perform multi-point inspection

Inspect automatic transmission fluid level (if equipped with under hood dipstick)

Inspect brake pads/shoes/rotors/drums, brake lines and hoses, and parking brake system

Inspect engine cooling system and hoses

Replace cabin air filter

Inspect and lubricate all non-sealed steering linkage, ball joints, suspension joints, half and drive-shafts and u-joints

Inspect complete exhaust system and heat shields

Replace engine air filter

Replace fuel filter

Change automatic transmission fluid - (Is this the same as a transmission "flush"?)

 

Does $499.00 seem reasonable? If not, what prices have been paid out there?

 

Thank you in advance.

[akirby]

Hey all,

 

I have my 2008 Edge Limited with 57,000 miles in for the rear bearing and PTU issues. Both have been fixed under the TSB's and warranty.

 

While they have the vehicle, I figured I would have the 60,000 mile service done. The dealership quoted me an approximate price of $499.00.

 

Is this a correct list of the services that should be performed?

 

Change engine oil and replace oil filter

Rotate and inspect tires; check wheel end play and turning noise

Perform multi-point inspection

Inspect automatic transmission fluid level (if equipped with under hood dipstick)

Inspect brake pads/shoes/rotors/drums, brake lines and hoses, and parking brake system

Inspect engine cooling system and hoses

Replace cabin air filter

Inspect and lubricate all non-sealed steering linkage, ball joints, suspension joints, half and drive-shafts and u-joints

Inspect complete exhaust system and heat shields

Replace engine air filter

Replace fuel filter

Change automatic transmission fluid - (Is this the same as a transmission "flush"?)

 

Does $499.00 seem reasonable? If not, what prices have been paid out there?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

That's about $300 worth of fluid and filter replacements (assuming they replace all the fluid) and tire rotation and $200 worth of "inspection".

 

You can easily do the cabin and engine filters yourself.

[ThinLine]

Looks like a $500 oil and air filter change ...!!!! Everything else is "inspect" which should be done with the free multi-point inspection. BTW. The manual states that the Edge has a lifetime fuel filter and the trans fluid is good for 150,000 miles.

Also, 9.5 ford mechanics out of 10 actually inspect any of those things on the list....they just check it off on the paper work. It is sad, but these days, the mechanics greatest tool is the pen.

Edited February 16, 2011 by ThinLine

[akirby]

The manual states that the trans fluid is good for 150,000 miles.

 

Yes it does (under normal usage) but I know a retired Ford transmission engineer who changes his every 30k miles - no exceptions. His theory is that all transmission service is severe and it's better to change it sooner.

 

I'd change it at 60K.

[ThinLine]

I agree akirb, 60,000 seems like a good number to change the trans fluid. I heard that it is better to just drain and refill and not to do a "flush". Is there any truth to this. I will be changing mine @ 60,000 and was wondering how to actually drain the fluid. Does the pan have a drain plug or do you have to disconnect a trans line running to the radiator and start the car?

[akirby]

I agree akirb, 60,000 seems like a good number to change the trans fluid. I heard that it is better to just drain and refill and not to do a "flush". Is there any truth to this. I will be changing mine @ 60,000 and was wondering how to actually drain the fluid. Does the pan have a drain plug or do you have to disconnect a trans line running to the radiator and start the car?

 

You can drain the fluid by dropping the pan but that only gets a small percentage of the fluid. Sometimes a "Flush" involves a cleaner fluid and that's not recommended either.

 

Ford dealers have a machine that they connect to the transmission cooler lines and it removes the old fluid and replaces it with new fluid using the transmission pump. This gets 95% of the old fluid out. You can do it yourself with some tubing and 2 5 gallon buckets but that's really messy and you could contanimate the new fluid.

[Ghastly]

Thank you all for the feedback.

 

I get the impression that the dealership is just looking for a sucker.

 

I have a local mechanic that I'm sure would love the business. I'll have him do the tranny flush and I'll try to do the filters myself. Wheels were just aligned a month or so ago when I had the brakes done.

 

It's too bad some of the dealerships out there are like this. No wonder they get such a bad rap!

[ThinLine]

Thanks akirb.....it is a messy job...I disconnected the line running to my aftermarket trans cooler on my mustang and put the bucket under the wrong line (the return line) and started car....hahaha the force of the fluid spurting out shot out about 5 feet from where the bucket was ! Sounds like this may be a bite the bullet job and have ford do it. Thanks again.

[JOEHIO]

Back in 1995, I bought a new Explorer XLT. Had trans filter replaced Along with fluid change every

60,000 miles. Sold it back in '02 to friends for their daughter with 140,000+ on it, and she's still driving

it today. What it boils down to, is that I stricktly followed maintenance as per the owners manual, and

it paid off. Still the original trans with no problems. Also had cooling system flushed every 60K, and all fine there, too.

[cshort07]

Hi, newbie on forum with 2008 FWD Edge Limited.

 

When I called my dealer to schedule appt. for the 30,000 mile check-up and find out what the cost for this check-up would be, he quoted me a price of around $500. After I recovered from the sticker shock and got my stuttering under control, I told him that I must've gotten the wrong scheduled maintenance guide, because mine just recommended a couple of filter replacements, an oil change and a number of inspections, but there was nothing about a complete engine overhaul. He said that he didn't have an engine overhaul on his list either and wondered where I got that idea from. I told him from the price he'd just quoted me for performing my 30K scheduled maintenance, which, from looking over my list, sure didn't look like $500 worth of work to me. He gave me the prices for each line item, plus one item I didn't have, an automatic transmission flush with a cost of $155. I told him that an ATF wasn't on my list until 60,000 miles, that I had never been charged for inspections before and that I was beginning to get the impression that he might be trying to rip me off because I was woman. He said he absolutely was not trying to rip me off and went on to explain to me that there was a different maintenance schedule for cars driven in the SW part of the country. I figured this was just another line in this scam and told him what him and his Service Dept could do to themselves and I was going to check out his claims with the Ford Customer Service people.

 

Before I called Ford, I called another dealer to see what price they would quote me for this service. The other dealer's price was $200 lower, but it also included the ATF. When I questioned this item, he verified that there was indeed a different guide for cars driven in the SW due to the dusty road conditions

. I inquired as to what dusty roads he was talking about, because all the roads I drive on had been paved for over 30 years!

 

I asked him why this information wasn't in my Owner Manual, he told me it was and it was located under "Special Operating Conditions - Operating in dusty road conditions such as unpaved or dusty roads". I told him that I had read that part and never gave it a second thought, since I live right in the middle of town and don't drive on unpaved roads. He asked me for my VIN number and pulled up the Scheduled Maintenance page for my specific vehicle and said. that according to Ford. I did fall in this category. Bottom line, not having this service done could void my warranty later on if I had transmission problems.

 

I'm still pretty upset that this information isn't made clearer in these manuals, especially since Ford could/would refuse to honor my warranty if these services had not been performed. I was also furious that I'd been taking my car in to these dealerships every 7500 miles to have the oil changed and neither dealership had ever told me, that because I live in the SW, I should be doing this every 5,000 miles. In fact, they added further confusion to the oil change issue, because the stickers they put on your windshield, telling you when to bring it back for another oil change, still print out using the old 3 months or 3,000 miles rule. When I asked why they still used 3,000 instead of 5,000 miles on these stickers, the mechanic responded, "Well, I don't really know why, I guess they haven't changed the program or something like that. Anyway, it wouldn't really hurt anything if you did change your oil every 3,000 miles." DUH?

 

I got so ripped off by the dealership I bought my very first new car from, that I refused to buy another new car for 30 years. I had so hoped that new laws and regulations passed in the last 30 years had stopped this kind of double dealing from happening, but I guess some things will never change and "wannabe, rip-off warranties" will always be at the top of that list.

 

Has anyone else living in the SW, been informed of the "special rules" for us and, if so, how were you informed?

 

Thanks,

[akirby]

Horse hockey! The manual doesn't say if you LIVE in an area with dusty roads - it says if you operate the vehicle in dusty conditions. If Ford wanted everyone in the SW to follow the severe service schedule based strictly on location then they would say that explicitly. Severe service for transmissions is heat and towing, not dust.

 

Sounds like the dealers are all in on the same trick. If you don't believe you qualify for the severe service schedule then use the regular service schedule. Even if Ford wanted to deny a warranty claim they would have to PROVE that you fell into the severe service requirements which would be almost impossible.

[bbf2530]

Horse hockey! The manual doesn't say if you LIVE in an area with dusty roads - it says if you operate the vehicle in dusty conditions. If Ford wanted everyone in the SW to follow the severe service schedule based strictly on location then they would say that explicitly. Severe service for transmissions is heat and towing, not dust.

 

Sounds like the dealers are all in on the same trick. If you don't believe you qualify for the severe service schedule then use the regular service schedule. Even if Ford wanted to deny a warranty claim they would have to PROVE that you fell into the severe service requirements which would be almost impossible.

 

Hi cshort. :D The truth is exactly as akirby stated above. They fed you a line of B.S.. There is no "special service" for the Southwest, transmission or otherwise. And the maintenance schedule for Special Operating conditions is just as it is defined in the Official Ford Maintenance Schedule/Guide: For vehicles which are actually constantly/often drive on dusty roads or used regularly for livery-type, frequent long periods of idling/stop and go service (police cars, taxis,delivery service etc..

 

You were given a well rehearsed line by both Dealerships that helps do nothing but empty your wallet and increase their profit margin. If your car is not used for the types of service described under the Special Operating conditions, then you only need to follow the Normal Service guidelines, with no worry of Warranty repercussions.

 

If your driving habits fall under the "Normal Service" guidelines, that is all you need to follow.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[cshort07]

Hi cshort. :D The truth is exactly as akirby stated above. They fed you a line of B.S.. There is no "special service" for the Southwest, transmission or otherwise. And the maintenance schedule for Special Operating conditions is just as it is defined in the Official Ford Maintenance Schedule/Guide: For vehicles which are actually constantly/often drive on dusty roads or used regularly for livery-type, frequent long periods of idling/stop and go service (police cars, taxis,delivery service etc..

 

You were given a well rehearsed line by both Dealerships that helps do nothing but empty your wallet and increase their profit margin. If your car is not used for the types of service described under the Special Operating conditions, then you only need to follow the Normal Service guidelines, with no worry of Warranty repercussions.

 

If your driving habits fall under the "Normal Service" guidelines, that is all you need to follow.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[cshort07]

Thanks to akirby and bbf2530 for your responses. Thanks for confirming what I suspected regarding the Special Service Maintenance Schedule, for the most part I ignored the Dealers and have been following the "normal" guidelines. Why do Dealers think they have to "double deal" their customers? I guess it'll be another 30 years before I buy a new car again. heavy sigh

[cal3thousand]

Thanks to akirby and bbf2530 for your responses. Thanks for confirming what I suspected regarding the Special Service Maintenance Schedule, for the most part I ignored the Dealers and have been following the "normal" guidelines. Why do Dealers think they have to "double deal" their customers? I guess it'll be another 30 years before I buy a new car again. heavy sigh

 

 

They need to do it in order to stay in business. Everyone is looking to save a buck nowadays, so their scale does not add up enough.

 

I'm a DIY guy. The dealership gave me a "free oil change coupon" and I might not even take them up on that. When I reach 60,000 miles (if I buyout my lease), I will flush the transmission be myself. (Will make sure to have the correct hose pulled by checking the ATF flow direction at the radiator first using documentation)

 

There's no special machine required. What they use is simply a fluid exchanger designed to keep the fluid contained and constructed for commercial use standards. For my purposes, a funnel, a bucket, and a helping hand is all I need. Now that I think about it, I don't need an extra set of hands either with the remote starter.

[Brian K]

We have an MKX with free service until 80,000 kms (50,000 miles). Part of the normal scheduling and free maintenance was a transmission oil change at 60,000 kms (36,000 miles) which they did (at no charge). That indicates to me that is it probably necessary otherwise Ford wouldn't do it for free.

 

There is alot of discussion on other forums about what type of service you should perform on the transmission - a 'Power Flush' or a 'Drain and Fill (D&F involves dropping and cleaning the pan, discarding the fluid, changing the filter and refilling)'. I've been doing the D&F on all my vehicles every 50,000 kms (30,000 miles) and have never had a transmission problem and I pull trailers and can probably assume a severe service category (because I drive the vehicle). The D&F only changes some (about half) of the fluid but it does clean the pan and a new filter is installed. You also get to see if there is a pile of clutch material in the Tx pan and if there is it is time to trade the vehicle and avoid spending $$. From what I've read the important difference between the 2 methods is that the D&F doesn't disturb crud in other parts of the transmission which the power flush probably does. Also the common theme on other forums is that you have over 100,000 miles on the original Tx fluid you should NEVER go to an oil change place and have them do the power flush and possibly disturb the sediment in the Tx. The Power Flush will not necessarily clean everything out but will move the particles to other parts of the Tx and thus may cause problems. Not really a difficult procedure to do the D&F and you don't have to worry about running the oil pump dry by using it to pump the fluid out. Of course this is all just opinion and everyone has their own ideas about what is best.

 

It is cheaper to change oil than parts so when the free service period is over I'll be doing things myself including changing the engine oil at 5000 kms (3000 miles), doing a D&F every 50,000 kms, and bleeding flushing the brakes every 2 years.

[akirby]

We have an MKX with free service until 80,000 kms (50,000 miles). Part of the normal scheduling and free maintenance was a transmission oil change at 60,000 kms (36,000 miles) which they did (at no charge). That indicates to me that is it probably necessary otherwise Ford wouldn't do it for free.

 

There is alot of discussion on other forums about what type of service you should perform on the transmission - a 'Power Flush' or a 'Drain and Fill (D&F involves dropping and cleaning the pan, discarding the fluid, changing the filter and refilling)'. I've been doing the D&F on all my vehicles every 50,000 kms (30,000 miles) and have never had a transmission problem and I pull trailers and can probably assume a severe service category (because I drive the vehicle). The D&F only changes some (about half) of the fluid but it does clean the pan and a new filter is installed. You also get to see if there is a pile of clutch material in the Tx pan and if there is it is time to trade the vehicle and avoid spending $$. From what I've read the important difference between the 2 methods is that the D&F doesn't disturb crud in other parts of the transmission which the power flush probably does. Also the common theme on other forums is that you have over 100,000 miles on the original Tx fluid you should NEVER go to an oil change place and have them do the power flush and possibly disturb the sediment in the Tx. The Power Flush will not necessarily clean everything out but will move the particles to other parts of the Tx and thus may cause problems. Not really a difficult procedure to do the D&F and you don't have to worry about running the oil pump dry by using it to pump the fluid out. Of course this is all just opinion and everyone has their own ideas about what is best.

 

It is cheaper to change oil than parts so when the free service period is over I'll be doing things myself including changing the engine oil at 5000 kms (3000 miles), doing a D&F every 50,000 kms, and bleeding flushing the brakes every 2 years.

 

Ford dealers don't do "power flushes" of the transmission. They simply use the cooler lines and let the transmission pump the old fluid out and the new fluid in. It won't hurt anything more than normal operation.

 

Changing engine oil at 3K miles is ridiculous and a waste of good oil.

[Brian K]

Ford dealers don't do "power flushes" of the transmission. They simply use the cooler lines and let the transmission pump the old fluid out and the new fluid in. It won't hurt anything more than normal operation.

 

Changing engine oil at 3K miles is ridiculous and a waste of good oil.

 

Dear Mr. Moderator

 

Do you have, or could you please point me to, a step by step procedure on how to do it the way the Dealers do it. Pictures of which cooling line to disconnect would be great if available. I just wanted to point out that many "Quick Lube" type places or Transmission shops do the Power Flush which may or may not be a good idea depending on your Transmission condition and a Drain and Fill is my preference. I agree that getting all the fluid out would be even better if it occurs without disturbing sediment and is safe. Not many folks that I know of take it back to the Dealer for routine maintenance as they do try to upsell alot and are notoriously expensive. Our local dealer charges $140 per hour. (they must have lawyers working there).

 

WRT the oil change frequency - I have had very good luck with this interval with many of my vehicles having over 250,000 miles on them and they don't burn any oil so I must be doing something that works effectively. A filter better than a Fram is also a good idea and since I do it myself it isn't that expensive and the "wasted" oil gets recycled anyway. Yes it costs a bit more than a 5000 - or more mile interval - but changing oil is cheaper than changing parts IMO.

 

Thanks in advance for your assistance with the procedure.

Brian

Edited January 11, 2012 by Brian K

[Russell Hardy]

My wife's 08 Edge needed 3 new tires and I decided since it was at 60K miles we'd go ahead and have the 60K mile service done too. The tires were between $500 and $600. Our bill came to over $1,300!!! My wife was the first to learn the amount of the invoice. I told her not to worry and that obviously, they must have found and replaced some faulty major component and that it was good we had it checked. When I found out that there were absolutely no repairs done for that price (just checks and some minor maintenance services performed) I lost my mind. I met with the service manager and told him that clearly there must be some sort of billing error. He looked the invoice over and handed it back to me and smuggly said there was no error in the billing, "labor is expensive"!!! I have not been back to the dealership since nor will I ever go there again. In fact, I had purchased a new Ford Ranger the same week my wife bought her Edge new from them. I was so disgruntled that i have sworn off of Ford completely. I now drive a 2003 Volkswagen. I've been to the VW dealership 4 different times and have yet to pay any labor. They did a free inspection of the vehicle, replaced a broken funnel tube for free, removed 20 each lock-type lug nuts I did not have a key for and installed 20 stock lug nuts for free, and they had a mechanic go over operator maintenance procedures with me for free. By the way I forgot to mention that a couple weeks after Ford performed that $700 periodic maintenance service on the Edge, it started misfiring. Our new mechanic discovered that the vehicle needed new spark plugs!! I guess $700 doesn't include any checking of the spark plugs (that probably would have been an additional $200 to inspect those I suppose). I used to swear by Ford. I believed in Ford Certified Maintenance professionals. Never again. Including the purchase price of the two vehicles and the amount we spent at their service department, we spent well over $40,000 at Shamaley Ford. I'd say that should have qualified us as good customers that did not deserve to be raped like we were.

[Feirstein]

My rule is never to ask for a so called 30,000 mile or 60,000 mile, etc., service. That is just asking for them to take my hard earned money. Instead, read the manual that came with the vehicle and just ask for the specific task that you want them to undertake. Mostly, the manual just calls for an oil change, an air filter change and a spark plug change, at specified miles. Changing out the coolant and flushing out the old brake fluid with new fluid once in a while is good practice, as is an occasional tire rotation. Just use common sense with an eye always on the manual. Today's transmission fluid is typically good for at least 100,000 miles unless you put excessive demand on the transmission. Again, consult the manual. If you have a lubrication question, scanning bobistheoilguy.com is a good place to start.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Feirstein

[RJG]

Ford dealers don't do "power flushes" of the transmission. They simply use the cooler lines and let the transmission pump the old fluid out and the new fluid in. It won't hurt anything more than normal operation.

 

Changing engine oil at 3K miles is ridiculous and a waste of good oil.

 

I'm with akirby on this. Too many folks don't understand about the longer lasting new lubes, somewhat larger oil capacities for engine size, cleaner fuels, and how servicing intervals have chainged. I like to rotate tires around the 6000-7000 mark, so that's when I change the oil. Othewise, for mostly highway diving, I would go a little longer on oil change. I also like to get a good (read from calibrated equipment) 4 wheel alignment about every 15,000 -20,000 miles. That way with rotation and alignment, my original equipment tires can last 50,000-60,000 miles.

You need engine air filters and cabin air filters, and I figure never to change the transmission fluid, plugs, etc. I don't think my 2012 Edge has a fuel filter, or at least one you change out. . I won't own the vehicle past 90,000 miles. And....I also don't think my servicing intervals are shortening the life of my vehicle for the next owner.