AWD losing control in turns

[Finch]

Hello all. I'm new here, but I'm sure someone has some input on this.

 

Have a 2008 AWD Edge that I have had issues with in any type of slippery condition when turning. When I bought the car one year ago, the very first day we had some snow. Came around a corner at a stop light, lost control as the back end of the vehicle kicked out and hit a curb... 400 repair for a new front rim. Dealer gives the usual garbage "you can slip in slippery weather". Thanks!!

 

So I've been patient with the vehicle, but living through this mid-western blizzard and driving the car a good deal this whole winter, the problem is always there. When I'm taking off and going straight, absolutely no issue. If I'm turning the corner and just barely hitting the gas and roads are slippery, I WILL start to lose control. My only fix has been to take corners going grandma speed. Many of the times, I'm losing control when I see FWD cars handling the same corner with no issue at all. The feeling I'm getting is that the thing is throwing all it's power to the rear wheels and it kicks out like I'm driving a RWD pickup truck with no weight in the bed.

 

I have the crappy Hankook stock tires, but they have a lot of tread on them. Hate to buy expensive replacements when the tires look almost new. Also, I have noticed the dreaded sulfur smell when stopped, and I am assuming it's the PTU leak. Taking it in tomorrow to have dealer look at that, but I know they are gonna tell me the AWD mechanism is working fine.

 

Any suggestions?

[Edgieguy]

Have someone check that the front wheels are indeed getting the power they're supposed to. Your rear end should not kick out like your driving a rear wheel drive pickup, something is wrong. If your service manager argues the point, bring him for a ride when you have snow on the ground or if you can get him to a snow covered parking lot.

[akirby]

Hello all. I'm new here, but I'm sure someone has some input on this.

 

Have a 2008 AWD Edge that I have had issues with in any type of slippery condition when turning. When I bought the car one year ago, the very first day we had some snow. Came around a corner at a stop light, lost control as the back end of the vehicle kicked out and hit a curb... 400 repair for a new front rim. Dealer gives the usual garbage "you can slip in slippery weather". Thanks!!

 

So I've been patient with the vehicle, but living through this mid-western blizzard and driving the car a good deal this whole winter, the problem is always there. When I'm taking off and going straight, absolutely no issue. If I'm turning the corner and just barely hitting the gas and roads are slippery, I WILL start to lose control. My only fix has been to take corners going grandma speed. Many of the times, I'm losing control when I see FWD cars handling the same corner with no issue at all. The feeling I'm getting is that the thing is throwing all it's power to the rear wheels and it kicks out like I'm driving a RWD pickup truck with no weight in the bed.

 

I have the crappy Hankook stock tires, but they have a lot of tread on them. Hate to buy expensive replacements when the tires look almost new. Also, I have noticed the dreaded sulfur smell when stopped, and I am assuming it's the PTU leak. Taking it in tomorrow to have dealer look at that, but I know they are gonna tell me the AWD mechanism is working fine.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Sounds like the tires. You need winter tires in really cold weather and/or snow.

[Finch]

Sounds like the tires. You need winter tires in really cold weather and/or snow.

 

I don't know if my imagination will allow me to blame this all on tires. Like I said they have a ton of tread on them, almost new. I don't expect it to handle like driving on dry pavement, but the ease at which it loses control on snow/ice/slush is just amazing.

 

I compare it to the '04 4WD Bronco I used to own. That thing weighed more than the garage I park my edge in, and had nowhere near the computerized/mechanized traction controlling mechanism the edge is supposed to have. Yet it would never slide out of control like this thing does. I also have a couple FWD cars that are >10 years old with half bald tires that greatly surpass the edge when it comes to turning in slippery places.

 

Again, when I'm going straight, I think I could drive through the Himalayan mountains without trouble (exaggerating of course), but when turning corners, it acts like a completely different vehicle in which I have no confidence whatsoever. Most edge owners I've read have the complete opposite experience with their AWD. That is why I bought this thing, to haul my family around in. It needs to be safe.

[akirby]

I don't know if my imagination will allow me to blame this all on tires. Like I said they have a ton of tread on them, almost new. I don't expect it to handle like driving on dry pavement, but the ease at which it loses control on snow/ice/slush is just amazing.

 

I compare it to the '04 4WD Bronco I used to own. That thing weighed more than the garage I park my edge in, and had nowhere near the computerized/mechanized traction controlling mechanism the edge is supposed to have. Yet it would never slide out of control like this thing does. I also have a couple FWD cars that are >10 years old with half bald tires that greatly surpass the edge when it comes to turning in slippery places.

 

Again, when I'm going straight, I think I could drive through the Himalayan mountains without trouble (exaggerating of course), but when turning corners, it acts like a completely different vehicle in which I have no confidence whatsoever. Most edge owners I've read have the complete opposite experience with their AWD. That is why I bought this thing, to haul my family around in. It needs to be safe.

 

You might be able to pull a fuse and disable the rear wheels - that should rule out the AWD. The difference is probably the Hankooks versus your other tires.

[romadavis]

Hello all. I'm new here, but I'm sure someone has some input on this.

 

Have a 2008 AWD Edge that I have had issues with in any type of slippery condition when turning. When I bought the car one year ago, the very first day we had some snow. Came around a corner at a stop light, lost control as the back end of the vehicle kicked out and hit a curb... 400 repair for a new front rim. Dealer gives the usual garbage "you can slip in slippery weather". Thanks!!

 

So I've been patient with the vehicle, but living through this mid-western blizzard and driving the car a good deal this whole winter, the problem is always there. When I'm taking off and going straight, absolutely no issue. If I'm turning the corner and just barely hitting the gas and roads are slippery, I WILL start to lose control. My only fix has been to take corners going grandma speed. Many of the times, I'm losing control when I see FWD cars handling the same corner with no issue at all. The feeling I'm getting is that the thing is throwing all it's power to the rear wheels and it kicks out like I'm driving a RWD pickup truck with no weight in the bed.

 

I have the crappy Hankook stock tires, but they have a lot of tread on them. Hate to buy expensive replacements when the tires look almost new. Also, I have noticed the dreaded sulfur smell when stopped, and I am assuming it's the PTU leak. Taking it in tomorrow to have dealer look at that, but I know they are gonna tell me the AWD mechanism is working fine.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Finch......not your imagination. Have had our 2008 Edge for about 2 years now and have loved the way it handled in the snow and ice. This past weekend on Sat. night, then again on Sun. am ...TURNING A CORNER both times, I experienced the same problem and feeling. In fact, I described the problem almsot as you did. It felt as if the back tires were getting the call to push and they did! I pulled into a parking lot, shut the car off, started it, then noticed the anti-skid icon stayed lit, which, according to the owners manual....means system needs checked. Am taking it in today.

 

Oddly enough....had a dead battery and new one put in this past week. Could that be the cause? I have driven Colorado roads since driving age....and these two "spins" were not tire or sensor or driver issues. Nor have they been the norm for this car. Certainly feels as if something is causing the computer to send the wrong information to the wheels!

Edited February 8, 2011 by romadavis

[bbf2530]

I don't know if my imagination will allow me to blame this all on tires. Like I said they have a ton of tread on them, almost new. I don't expect it to handle like driving on dry pavement, but the ease at which it loses control on snow/ice/slush is just amazing.

 

I compare it to the '04 4WD Bronco I used to own. That thing weighed more than the garage I park my edge in, and had nowhere near the computerized/mechanized traction controlling mechanism the edge is supposed to have. Yet it would never slide out of control like this thing does. I also have a couple FWD cars that are >10 years old with half bald tires that greatly surpass the edge when it comes to turning in slippery places.

 

Again, when I'm going straight, I think I could drive through the Himalayan mountains without trouble (exaggerating of course), but when turning corners, it acts like a completely different vehicle in which I have no confidence whatsoever. Most edge owners I've read have the complete opposite experience with their AWD. That is why I bought this thing, to haul my family around in. It needs to be safe.

 

Hi Finch. :D Let me state upfront that I am not doubting that it could be a problem other than tires.

 

However, that being said, to completely rule out the tires as a cause, some more information would help. For example: What make and model tires are now on your Edge? How many miles are on them? Did you install them yourself or are they the original factory tires (or are they replacement the previous owner installed)? Were they properly rotated? While I understand that you can't know what the previous owner did, have you rotated them properly and have you checked the tread depth on all four tires (outside, middle and inside tread) to be sure they are not unevenly worn? Are the rear tires more worn than the fronts (by measuring, not visibly)?

 

While this may seem far-fetched, for all we know (and maybe for all you know) the previous owner installed summer performance tires on the Edge, or there is some other easily discovered/cured underlying tire problem (rears more worn than the fronts etc.). Also, while many people do not realize this, once passenger car tires have lost approximately/just over half their usable tread, they are severely compromised for winter/snow driving.

 

Once we have that information and can completely rule out tires as a cause, then it is easier to move forward on mechanical issues.

 

Also, my apologies if you already know all of this information, but it is better to play it safe and ask the questions.

 

Post back when you have a chance.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[ThinLine]

I have 50,000 miles on the stock michelin lattitudes and my AWD edge does nothing like your describing. There is definitely something wrong with the AWD system but my money would be on the RSC (roll stability control). Not working properly. Good luck having the dealer do anything to remedy this issue.

[Finch]

They are Hankook Dynapro AS tires that were put on the vehicle when I bought it in March '10. I've put about 13k miles on them and had them rotated about 5k miles ago. I did not do the tread measurements myself, but the last time I had the oil changed they gave me all the tread measurements, and they looked pretty good. Yeah, I'm trusting someone else's measurements, but those people are ALWAYS trying to sell you a tire if they can, and they didn't even try after seeing my treads.

 

If it is the tires, then I think more people would be having this issue because there are plenty of people that don't change tires until they blow up, or are near bald. Also, most people don't rotate tires as often as they should. Now that the edge has been on the market for several years, there has to be a few thousand of them with sub-optimal tread wear running around. Of course I can be wrong, but it just seems like a stretch that the tires, that although are not the best brand, would cause such a potentially catastrophic loss of handling in an AWD vehicle of any type.

 

I agree with ThinLine, unfortunately. Whatever the problem is, they aren't going to acknowledge it, much less try to fix it under warranty.

 

Much thanks for all the good input so far, too. I appreciate the help trying to narrow this down.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Finch

[07mass]

I have had the same problem with my 07 awd. It has 20k on the Hankook tires. I HATE them. The car drives better when I hit the Traction control button. However this is just my DD because I can afford to put 93 octane in my 03 SS Silverado. Now that truck is AWD and handles the road like a champ, I sometimes find myself trying to get the truck side ways. I'm running Cooper 305/50/20's on the SS.

I would have to say that its the tires.. i have noticed when its raining out I can get the Edge to spin the front tires really well if you punch it!!! Just take it easy and try hitting the Traction Control button and see what that does. Just my .02

Edited February 7, 2011 by 07mass

[Finch]

I have had the same problem with my 07 awd. It has 20k on the Hankook tires. I HATE them. The car drives better when I hit the Traction control button. However this is just my DD because I can afford to put 93 octane in my 03 SS Silverado. Now that truck is AWD and handles the road like a champ, I sometimes find myself trying to get the truck side ways. I'm running Cooper 305/50/20's on the SS.

I would have to say that its the tires.. i have noticed when its raining out I can get the Edge to spin the front tires really well if you punch it!!! Just take it easy and try hitting the Traction Control button and see what that does. Just my .02

 

I do have to ask then, wouldn't most Edge owners have the same problem since that is the brand on most Edge's off the lot? And Mass, did you notice this problem when you first purchased the car, or did it start as the tires wore in a bit?

[romadavis]

I do have to ask then, wouldn't most Edge owners have the same problem since that is the brand on most Edge's off the lot? And Mass, did you notice this problem when you first purchased the car, or did it start as the tires wore in a bit?

 

I have the Michelin Lattitude factory tires, and my Edge has not done this until just this weekend. Thinline's response makes sense as to how strange it feels in the skid....it feels like a power issue in the rear wheels, not a sideways skid because of lack of tread. Hard to explain, but have made many turns on icy streets in this Edge, and never experienced a "forced " skid until this weekend. Dealer has it now and we'll see what they say.

[Finch]

I have the Michelin Lattitude factory tires, and my Edge has not done this until just this weekend. Thinline's response makes sense as to how strange it feels in the skid....it feels like a power issue in the rear wheels, not a sideways skid because of lack of tread. Hard to explain, but have made many turns on icy streets in this Edge, and never experienced a "forced " skid until this weekend. Dealer has it now and we'll see what they say.

 

Ah, I'd be very interested in what your dealer says. Seems as though without some kind of warning light for them to look at, they are clueless. And I do agree with the feeling of it. To me it's as if the car just throws way to much power to the rear wheels. In a slippery situation, this causes them to break loose and the car goes into a sideways spin.

[romadavis]

Ah, I'd be very interested in what your dealer says. Seems as though without some kind of warning light for them to look at, they are clueless. And I do agree with the feeling of it. To me it's as if the car just throws way to much power to the rear wheels. In a slippery situation, this causes them to break loose and the car goes into a sideways spin.

 

I'll keep you posted. I thought I had the warning light, but did not. We've all taken corners too fast and slid, but this was a totally different feeling. I am plenty old enough that I remember the days of bad tires and turning corners and losing it. This wasn't that, either. And.....in my case it just started Saturday. And your comment about grandma speed is exactly right. The only way I felt safe on the rest of the corners was creeping.

 

I, too, watched other vehicles make the same corner with no problems, and significantly faster. We may be the only two...but somethin' just ain't right!

Edited February 8, 2011 by romadavis

[ThinLine]

This issue is so strange. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the AWD system designed to put power to all 4 wheels up until 40 mph when it then switches to just powering the front wheels? I also believe that the clunk some feel while coasting on the highway and then tapping the gas is the AWD system engaging/disengaging.

Edited February 8, 2011 by ThinLine

[Finch]

Well, I took the car in today to the dealer. Wanted to have the PTU seal checked, as I'm getting the odor I've heard is such a tell tale sign....

 

I mentioned the issue with turning, again, with loss of control and such. He immediately told me this is common with the Edge. It transfers too much power to the rear wheels, causing it to break loose and act like a RWD car truck. They have had Edges come in frequently with very similar stories, and all they can really offer to improve the issue is a 4-wheel alignment. The best I can probably do is keep driving very slowly around turns, and maybe get some better tires. I'm stuck with the car now, but this makes me not want any AWD Ford ever again. Point of AWD is to keep you from losing control, not the opposite. How ridiculous.

 

Anyone have good luck with any particular type of tire for All Season use, that does ok in snow/slush?

[Edgieguy]

Well, I took the car in today to the dealer. Wanted to have the PTU seal checked, as I'm getting the odor I've heard is such a tell tale sign....

 

I mentioned the issue with turning, again, with loss of control and such. He immediately told me this is common with the Edge. It transfers too much power to the rear wheels, causing it to break loose and act like a RWD car truck. They have had Edges come in frequently with very similar stories, and all they can really offer to improve the issue is a 4-wheel alignment. The best I can probably do is keep driving very slowly around turns, and maybe get some better tires. I'm stuck with the car now, but this makes me not want any AWD Ford ever again. Point of AWD is to keep you from losing control, not the opposite. How ridiculous.

 

Anyone have good luck with any particular type of tire for All Season use, that does ok in snow/slush?

 

Totally defeats the purpose of having awd. Also sounds like a lame excuse. I wouldn't leave this issue alone, keep pushing. My 2008 was a tank in snow, ice, and foul weather. I had the stock pirellis on 20" wheels. My new Sport keeps going where my 2008 left off. We've had a snowy icy messy winter in the northeast the past two months.... My Edge hasn't missed a beat.

[romadavis]

Well, I took the car in today to the dealer. Wanted to have the PTU seal checked, as I'm getting the odor I've heard is such a tell tale sign....

 

I mentioned the issue with turning, again, with loss of control and such. He immediately told me this is common with the Edge. It transfers too much power to the rear wheels, causing it to break loose and act like a RWD car truck. They have had Edges come in frequently with very similar stories, and all they can really offer to improve the issue is a 4-wheel alignment. The best I can probably do is keep driving very slowly around turns, and maybe get some better tires. I'm stuck with the car now, but this makes me not want any AWD Ford ever again. Point of AWD is to keep you from losing control, not the opposite. How ridiculous.

 

Anyone have good luck with any particular type of tire for All Season use, that does ok in snow/slush?

 

Finch....good to know. Haven't heard back from my dealer yet....in fact, it is snowing pretty good here today; I'll encourage him to take it out and try it, but to be careful in the corners.

 

I'll report back as to what I hear. Thanks for the update.

 

And....Edgieguy...thanks for the affirmation that it shouldn't be the way it is.

[akirby]

Isn't there a fuse you can pull to disable the rear wheel torque transfer? That would be the ultimate troubleshooting test. Run the same curve with and without AWD.

[ThinLine]

They told you that losing control in a turn with an AWD vehicle is normal......all I can say is......WOW !

[Waldo]

It does sound like an alignment issue to me. Too much rear toe-out will cause the issue you're describing and it will certainly be exaggerated in the snow.

[Edgieguy]

Roma,

Curious how you're making out with this, please post an update when you can.

[romadavis]

Roma,

Curious how you're making out with this, please post an update when you can.

 

Sorry....got busy with other things and forgot to get back and report. Service Mgr. told me that they had some issues with the owner's wife's EDGE and put it on some test that they had run on hers and found there was a problem. Said they ran the same test on mine and everything was fine. He felt like I needed tires. He thought that the worn tread under really icy conditions could cause it to supply power where it shouldn't.

 

Left there and went to tire dealer (good friend) and he agreed that it very well could be the tires (had the Michelin Latitudes). He suggested the Michelin LTX M/S. I had seen some talk about them on another thread, so I had him order them.

 

Snowed the day he put them on....they performed great! Have had it on some pretty "edgy" stuff and the problem has not re-occured.

 

So......even if it didn't feel like a tire issue, it certainly appears to have been.

 

Thanks for checking back in ....sorry for the delay.