2011 Edge/MKX My Touch and Sync Problems

[wilsons66604]

I've been where they're at on large software projects so I guess I have a little more empathy than most.

This is one large project that should never have been launched.

 

The Sync team may be doing everything they can but Ford needs to do some damage control. Hell offer us unhappy owners lifetime oil changes or something.

[i20sailor]

I do agree the updates should at least be noted on syncmyride.com. But the dealers are aware of the updates and all you have to do is call and ask - so how is that "leaving customers in the dark"?

 

Could they do more? Yes. Did they screw up royally? Yes. Are they going all out to try and fix the problems? Yes, with new releases every month or so and a rumored total rewrite that is backwards compatible.

Are customers with continuing problems upset? Yes. Are there customers who are happy with no problems? Yes.

 

If Ford stops putting out software updates before the problems are fixed OR if they start refusing to fix problem vehicles THEN I'll be the first one to blast them. Until then I give them the benefit of the doubt that they're doing everything they can to try and fix the problems even if they aren't doing it perfectly.

 

I've been where they're at on large software projects so I guess I have a little more empathy than most.

 

The expectations of the auto industry and its customers is much higher that for other products. MFT was released 2 years too early. OK, its done and now needs to be fixed.

 

To me, the biggest issue is that I don't know what Ford is actually planning. Its all rumours and then a new update shows up now and then. If I was the supplier of this system to Ford, they would expect a clear recovery plan with details on key milestones. I don't expect this kind of detail, but Ford should be communicating to its customers as to what issues they are aware of, have a some way to allow customers to communicate issues to them and give some impression that they are taking all this very seriously. Based on the last 6 months, I have no confidance that MFT will ever be fixed and the dealer network is not helping the issue.

[akirby]

This is one large project that should never have been launched.

 

The Sync team may be doing everything they can but Ford needs to do some damage control. Hell offer us unhappy owners lifetime oil changes or something.

 

I agree on both counts.

[akirby]

Based on the last 6 months, I have no confidance that MFT will ever be fixed and the dealer network is not helping the issue.

 

Ford isn't going to release the type of info you want for competitive reasons. And don't forget that there are a lot of 2011 owners with no issues or only minor issues.

 

By my count Ford has released at least 4 and possibly up to 6 new software updates since the 2011s were launched 8 months ago. While that shows they have a lot of problems

to fix it also shows they're putting maximum effort into fixing them. If they weren't publishing frequent updates then I'd be a lot more critical.

 

They're not going to publicly say that they're rewriting the software but that's what the insiders tell us and they're credible.

 

And yes, I think owners who have had multiple problems should get some type of compensation.

[ESL12]

Ford isn't going to release the type of info you want for competitive reasons. And don't forget that there are a lot of 2011 owners with no issues or only minor issues.

 

By my count Ford has released at least 4 and possibly up to 6 new software updates since the 2011s were launched 8 months ago. While that shows they have a lot of problems

to fix it also shows they're putting maximum effort into fixing them. If they weren't publishing frequent updates then I'd be a lot more critical.

 

They're not going to publicly say that they're rewriting the software but that's what the insiders tell us and they're credible.

 

And yes, I think owners who have had multiple problems should get some type of compensation.

 

 

 

I don't doubt Ford is working hard to resolve these issues... They have no choice.. This system is being rolled out to more and more models each year. Sooner or later it will be in all there cars. The point again is... We spent 40k on a car... You should expect it to be in mint shape the day you roll off the lot. Do you find a dent in the door and accept it? If you do well then this conversation is over. The Dealers make good on minor issues discovered on delivery... But this issue can't be handled by the dealer. Most if not all Dealers are just as in the dark as we are. They need to communicate. I shouldn't have to activily call Ford in the hopes one day someone will answer and say, yes we have an update. I have better things to do with my life.

[akirby]

Most if not all Dealers are just as in the dark as we are. They need to communicate. I shouldn't have to activily call Ford in the hopes one day someone will answer and say, yes we have an update. I have better things to do with my life.

 

I said that Ford should make new version notifications on syncmyride.com. But the dealers know when a new software update is available and they can easily keep a list of their customers who are having problems to notify them.

[ntrlsur]

I've been where they're at on large software projects so I guess I have a little more empathy than most.

 

 

I have been there myself on large projects software and hardware and ford or at least one of there many consultants should have warned them that building a user interface system from flash of this scope was just plain stupid. Java would have been the better choice.

 

The hardware specs alone should have given them a moment of pause.

Core CPU: ARM Cortex A8 @ 600 mHz (most of the phones you are connecting to sync are faster)

2D/3D graphics controller

512MB RAM

2GB NAND flash memory

 

these specs would have been fine if it was a background system that had no GUI and just did background processing but for front line work its a bit weak.

 

I have had a few problems (APIM replaced, address book issues) But nothing really killer. Altho I agree for 40k I expect something a bit better. I also took the risk of buying first model year but for me it was the edge or the new explorer and when i bought in November they didn't have a release date on the explorer.

[akirby]

I have been there myself on large projects software and hardware and ford or at least one of there many consultants should have warned them that building a user interface system from flash of this scope was just plain stupid. Java would have been the better choice.

 

The hardware specs alone should have given them a moment of pause.

Core CPU: ARM Cortex A8 @ 600 mHz (most of the phones you are connecting to sync are faster)

2D/3D graphics controller

512MB RAM

2GB NAND flash memory

 

these specs would have been fine if it was a background system that had no GUI and just did background processing but for front line work its a bit weak.

 

I have had a few problems (APIM replaced, address book issues) But nothing really killer. Altho I agree for 40k I expect something a bit better. I also took the risk of buying first model year but for me it was the edge or the new explorer and when i bought in November they didn't have a release date on the explorer.

 

That's what happens when a car mfr tries to write complicated user interface software. The good news is it sounds like they know they messed up and they're getting outside help to fix it which includes ditching flash.

[i20sailor]

That's what happens when a car mfr tries to write complicated user interface software. The good news is it sounds like they know they messed up and they're getting outside help to fix it which includes ditching flash.

 

I am sure that hardware upgrades will come in future MY and applcations to make the system function as intended. I would guess that Ford will not upgrade the 2011 Edge and we will live with a sub-par system with software band-aids. I'm curious to see what happens when the car is out of warranty (15K miles for me).

[wilsons66604]

I said that Ford should make new version notifications on syncmyride.com. But the dealers know when a new software update is available and they can easily keep a list of their customers who are having problems to notify them.

Correct...assuming the dealership is competent.

[Ender519]

I don't doubt Ford is working hard to resolve these issues... They have no choice.. This system is being rolled out to more and more models each year. Sooner or later it will be in all there cars. The point again is... We spent 40k on a car... You should expect it to be in mint shape the day you roll off the lot. Do you find a dent in the door and accept it? If you do well then this conversation is over. The Dealers make good on minor issues discovered on delivery... But this issue can't be handled by the dealer. Most if not all Dealers are just as in the dark as we are. They need to communicate. I shouldn't have to activily call Ford in the hopes one day someone will answer and say, yes we have an update. I have better things to do with my life.

 

Your flawed logic of comparing bugs in software to physical defects on the car's exterior doesn't hold water. No matter how you cut it, MFT is a rather complicated system - and entire OS - and even the best OS's out there are LOADED with bugs. Having so many updates to the software (plus a rewrite coming) is far more support than I've ever seen in most devices, much less systems like these.

 

No one is going to argue that MFT is perfect - it certainly is not. Personally I have some trouble keeping my phone connected via bluetooth. But for the most part it works fine, and for the majority of people it works fine. You are raising the bar to place that cannot possibly be reached by ANY in car system.. Go look in the forums for BMW and Mercedes' in car systems if you don't believe me. You knew what you were buying when you bought it. You want something that works 100% of the time? Go find a car that has nothing but switches and knobs.

 

I will liken this to a flip phone vs a smartphone. The flip phone probably work 100% of the time.. but it cannot do even a fraction of what the smartphone can. What's the trade off for the smart phone? Lower battery life, some things more complicated, and sometimes it messes up and you have to reboot it or pull the battery. Even on someone as polished as an iPhone. People live with that because the benefits outweigh the problems. This system is cool and everyone I show it to fawns all over it. It can be improved but I don't think its so bad as everyone makes it out to be.. Sheesh.

 

 

Oh and for the record, I think Ford does a terrible job of communicating updates when they are available and especially communicating what has changed in one version vs the next.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Ender519

[cal3thousand]

I have been there myself on large projects software and hardware and ford or at least one of there many consultants should have warned them that building a user interface system from flash of this scope was just plain stupid. Java would have been the better choice.

 

The hardware specs alone should have given them a moment of pause.

Core CPU: ARM Cortex A8 @ 600 mHz (most of the phones you are connecting to sync are faster)

2D/3D graphics controller

512MB RAM

2GB NAND flash memory

 

these specs would have been fine if it was a background system that had no GUI and just did background processing but for front line work its a bit weak.

 

I have had a few problems (APIM replaced, address book issues) But nothing really killer. Altho I agree for 40k I expect something a bit better. I also took the risk of buying first model year but for me it was the edge or the new explorer and when i bought in November they didn't have a release date on the explorer.

 

 

 

They should be able to get it to work with those specs. While my phone is way faster, Sync/MFT doesn't have the burden of fancy animations nor 720p video. Don't get me wrong, a stronger more modern chip would be great and wouldn't have cost much more at this scale.

 

 

 

 

[ntrlsur]

They should be able to get it to work with those specs. While my phone is way faster, Sync/MFT doesn't have the burden of fancy animations nor 720p video. Don't get me wrong, a stronger more modern chip would be great and wouldn't have cost much more at this scale.

 

 

Not sure I agree there. I am a systems admin for a video game company that is very frugal so I am use to having to make do. While i would have no problem using a 600mhz processor with 512 of ram in a server that handles 100's of users aday there is no way I would run a GUI on it. The overhead for that would be a killer in such a system. The slowness as reported by alot of sync users is due to that proc being over worked. Its not a stand alone video processor so all the work that gets done and is reported back to the end user (changing music tracks moving back and forth between modules) is coming from the CPU in addition to the processing work that the commands require. Hell a 1gig P4 would have been the better choice and cheaper.

 

Not saying that you are wrong in your post just a disagreement from the sharp edge of the sword.

[abeasom]

I am having trouble playing video through the AV input. I have tried a portable DVD player, a Kodak Playsport camera, and a Panasonic still cam. I have the car turned on to accessories (not running) and connected the RCA cables appropriately. I get audio, but no video. I have not tried to play video with the parking brake engaged. Does it need to be engaged for video to work? I have a 2011 Ford Edge Limited without Navigation. I have no idea what software I am running because sync my ride website is down.

[tpm419419]

I am having trouble playing video through the AV input. I have tried a portable DVD player, a Kodak Playsport camera, and a Panasonic still cam. I have the car turned on to accessories (not running) and connected the RCA cables appropriately. I get audio, but no video. I have not tried to play video with the parking brake engaged. Does it need to be engaged for video to work? I have a 2011 Ford Edge Limited without Navigation. I have no idea what software I am running because sync my ride website is down.

 

 

Simple enough... Try applying the P Brake

[abeasom]

I am going to when I get home. That's about 6 hours from now. I was just wondering if anyone could confirm it before then.

[tpm419419]

I am going to when I get home. That's about 6 hours from now. I was just wondering if anyone could confirm it before then.

 

I'm pretty sure that is what I read. In Park with parking brake light

[cluelass8]

I'm new here and have been reading all the posts about Ford notifying customers about updates. Not sure how I feel about that as I'm a fairly new owner and my dealership has kept me informed. However, if notifications need to be made, what's wrong with email? I assume most of the customers who purchase cars with systems like this are at least a little into technology and therefore are more likely than most to possess an email account. And it's pretty easy to hire someone to manage your email communications. Just a thought.

 

However, that being said, where DO I go to find out about updates? I am reading about all of you who know what version your software is and I don't even know how to find that. :-) I have been to and signed in to syncmyride.com but that appears to be quite a clumsy and difficult-to-navigate site. Or is that just me? I do agree with the folks who state that we pay a good price (in fact a premium price) to have this technology and that should count for something. Ford needs to be aware that they are answerable to us, even if the answer is 'we screwed up and we don't know how to fix it'. I'd at least rather hear that than what I'm reading on this forum.

 

I just had my whole system, MFT and Sync, go completely out, so believe me, I understand this frustration. What bothers me is that I have a great service advisor who keeps up to date on these systems and he didn't know what had gone wrong. He has called the Ford "hot line" but hasn't gotten an answer yet. I'm calling it the "lukewarm line." :-) But at least I know he'll perservere till he finds an answer.

 

Thanks for any help you can give a newbie and good luck with solving all your problems! :-)

 

Cluelass8

[rwolson]

I'm new here and have been reading all the posts about Ford notifying customers about updates. Not sure how I feel about that as I'm a fairly new owner and my dealership has kept me informed. However, if notifications need to be made, what's wrong with email? I assume most of the customers who purchase cars with systems like this are at least a little into technology and therefore are more likely than most to possess an email account. And it's pretty easy to hire someone to manage your email communications. Just a thought.

 

However, that being said, where DO I go to find out about updates? I am reading about all of you who know what version your software is and I don't even know how to find that. :-) I have been to and signed in to syncmyride.com but that appears to be quite a clumsy and difficult-to-navigate site. Or is that just me? I do agree with the folks who state that we pay a good price (in fact a premium price) to have this technology and that should count for something. Ford needs to be aware that they are answerable to us, even if the answer is 'we screwed up and we don't know how to fix it'. I'd at least rather hear that than what I'm reading on this forum.

 

I just had my whole system, MFT and Sync, go completely out, so believe me, I understand this frustration. What bothers me is that I have a great service advisor who keeps up to date on these systems and he didn't know what had gone wrong. He has called the Ford "hot line" but hasn't gotten an answer yet. I'm calling it the "lukewarm line." :-) But at least I know he'll perservere till he finds an answer.

 

Thanks for any help you can give a newbie and good luck with solving all your problems! :-)

 

Cluelass8

 

 

First, login into sysncmyride.com and choose the menu, Update and Customize.

 

Next, download the Sync Status Tool Checker to a USB drive plus follow the instructions on the website to run the utility in your car. You'll need a version history uploaded to syncmyride.

 

I've never seen any updates appear on the Update link, but instead hear about updates from people here or when I go to the dealer.

 

Also, just found a link re: Sirius Voice Command Channel selection update in the Sync communities. Nope, trying the update in the morning.

[ntrlsur]

Wondering if anyone else has seen this.. I got the 2.8 install a few weeks ago. I always keep my ipod connected. When first connected it will index the music and then build the media commands. But it seems like it never finishes building the media commands. I keep about 3 gigs of music on my ipod it indexed pretty fast but here we are 2 weeks later and its still building media commands. I also notice that when I turn the car off come back later while the song resumes where it left off it starts my playlist over again. IE if i was listing to song 34 of 680 when i start the car back up its the display shows song 1 of 680. Its a bit wierd. Has anyone else seen this type of behavior with the 2.8?

[delldell]

Wondering if anyone else has seen this.. I got the 2.8 install a few weeks ago. I always keep my ipod connected. When first connected it will index the music and then build the media commands. But it seems like it never finishes building the media commands. I keep about 3 gigs of music on my ipod it indexed pretty fast but here we are 2 weeks later and its still building media commands. I also notice that when I turn the car off come back later while the song resumes where it left off it starts my playlist over again. IE if i was listing to song 34 of 680 when i start the car back up its the display shows song 1 of 680. Its a bit wierd. Has anyone else seen this type of behavior with the 2.8?

 

 

I have 2.8 and my index speed was OK. I get the same thing when restarting the car: Same song but 1 of playlist. That doesn't bother me at all,as it is in shuffle mode and will get through them all eventually anyway.

 

I am documenting problems and from what the dealer has said, iPods are causing problems. This seems to be the case as I have not had iPod touch connected in a few days and have had no problems. What i may do is connect iPod through audio inputs, not USB so it does not respond to voice commands and does not really use MFT resources like a USB connection

[ntrlsur]

I have 2.8 and my index speed was OK. I get the same thing when restarting the car: Same song but 1 of playlist. That doesn't bother me at all,as it is in shuffle mode and will get through them all eventually anyway.

 

I am documenting problems and from what the dealer has said, iPods are causing problems. This seems to be the case as I have not had iPod touch connected in a few days and have had no problems. What i may do is connect iPod through audio inputs, not USB so it does not respond to voice commands and does not really use MFT resources like a USB connection

 

 

I typically do a shuffle too. Drives my wife crazy how I can go from country to pop. At least I am not the only one seeing this problem.

[akirby]

I typically do a shuffle too. Drives my wife crazy how I can go from country to pop. At least I am not the only one seeing this problem.

 

The new country IS pop. I listen to both also.

[l33]

Not sure I agree there. I am a systems admin for a video game company that is very frugal so I am use to having to make do. While i would have no problem using a 600mhz processor with 512 of ram in a server that handles 100's of users aday there is no way I would run a GUI on it. The overhead for that would be a killer in such a system. The slowness as reported by alot of sync users is due to that proc being over worked. Its not a stand alone video processor so all the work that gets done and is reported back to the end user (changing music tracks moving back and forth between modules) is coming from the CPU in addition to the processing work that the commands require. Hell a 1gig P4 would have been the better choice and cheaper.

 

Not saying that you are wrong in your post just a disagreement from the sharp edge of the sword.

The hardware is not the problem when it comes to performance. I'm in a fortunate position that means I know a bit about both the hardware and software in MyFord Touch (plus I've done some other research too...).

The processor used is specifically designed for what its being used for - its perfect in fact. If anyone is interested in the specs please see this datasheet: http://cache.freescale.com/files/dsp/doc/data_sheet/IMX51AEC.pdf?pspll=1

I would like to quote this section:

"Powerful Graphics Acceleration—The i.MX51A processor has an integrated Graphics Processing

Unit which includes an OpenGl 2.0 GPU that provides 27Mtri/sec, 166Mpix/s, and 664Mpix/s

z-plane performance. Silicon version 2.0 of the i.MX51A device includes an independent OpenVG

GPU operating at166Mpix/s."

 

Now to most of you that won't mean much but lets keep it simple: MyFord Touch does not output "HD quality" images or video and therefore the demands on a graphics chipset is lower than this processors capabilities overall.

 

The biggest issue that Ford face is a user interface that has been bolted onto a previous generation of Microsoft Auto. Adobe Flash Lite was designed to be used for Windows CE, it just happens to sit on top of Auto too as that is also built on top of Windows CE. Its actually a subset of CE.

Fact: Adobe Flash on any embedded platform is not wonderful. Just check out the latest and greatest smartphones today (excluding the iPhone here becuase Apple just won't allow Flash on that device... read into that what you will). Not many of the latest devices even cope with Flash well and they are on the bleeding edge of technology. Ford can't use the bleeding edge of technology in the car. They need reliable (I know, there's a joke here somewhere), capable and proven technology before they put it into the car. They need something that withstands harsher temperatures than your phone and things like that. Adobe Flash (lite or not) will not cut it and it impacts the whole system today.

I hear rumors of the PST (Microsoft Partner Solution Team) working with BSquare and Ford to iron out some of these problems but I don't think that there will be big progress until we move from Auto 4 to Windows Embedded Automotive 7. Think of it like moving from Windows Vista to Windows 7. Microsoft used to have 2 "different" Auto platforms (Auto 4.1 and Automotive 5.5). 5.5 wasn't an upgrade of 4 - it was different. With 7 they combined parts from both of them and built it on top of their latest embedded platform.

 

I really hope that we see the fruits of the work going on right now soon. On Feb 6 2011 investment in the "Ford Telematics Competency Center" was doubled - this means we should see faster and better software from BSquare (the people that build MFT for Ford).

 

Here's hoping! :-)

[tpm419419]

The hardware is not the problem when it comes to performance. I'm in a fortunate position that means I know a bit about both the hardware and software in MyFord Touch (plus I've done some other research too...).

The processor used is specifically designed for what its being used for - its perfect in fact. If anyone is interested in the specs please see this datasheet: http://cache.freescale.com/files/dsp/doc/data_sheet/IMX51AEC.pdf?pspll=1

I would like to quote this section:

"Powerful Graphics Acceleration—The i.MX51A processor has an integrated Graphics Processing

Unit which includes an OpenGl 2.0 GPU that provides 27Mtri/sec, 166Mpix/s, and 664Mpix/s

z-plane performance. Silicon version 2.0 of the i.MX51A device includes an independent OpenVG

GPU operating at166Mpix/s."

 

Now to most of you that won't mean much but lets keep it simple: MyFord Touch does not output "HD quality" images or video and therefore the demands on a graphics chipset is lower than this processors capabilities overall.

 

The biggest issue that Ford face is a user interface that has been bolted onto a previous generation of Microsoft Auto. Adobe Flash Lite was designed to be used for Windows CE, it just happens to sit on top of Auto too as that is also built on top of Windows CE. Its actually a subset of CE.

Fact: Adobe Flash on any embedded platform is not wonderful. Just check out the latest and greatest smartphones today (excluding the iPhone here becuase Apple just won't allow Flash on that device... read into that what you will). Not many of the latest devices even cope with Flash well and they are on the bleeding edge of technology. Ford can't use the bleeding edge of technology in the car. They need reliable (I know, there's a joke here somewhere), capable and proven technology before they put it into the car. They need something that withstands harsher temperatures than your phone and things like that. Adobe Flash (lite or not) will not cut it and it impacts the whole system today.

I hear rumors of the PST (Microsoft Partner Solution Team) working with BSquare and Ford to iron out some of these problems but I don't think that there will be big progress until we move from Auto 4 to Windows Embedded Automotive 7. Think of it like moving from Windows Vista to Windows 7. Microsoft used to have 2 "different" Auto platforms (Auto 4.1 and Automotive 5.5). 5.5 wasn't an upgrade of 4 - it was different. With 7 they combined parts from both of them and built it on top of their latest embedded platform.

 

I really hope that we see the fruits of the work going on right now soon. On Feb 6 2011 investment in the "Ford Telematics Competency Center" was doubled - this means we should see faster and better software from BSquare (the people that build MFT for Ford).

 

Here's hoping! :-)

 

Thank you for the explanation and that glimmer of hope