Ask A Professional Detailer?

[akirby]

The term swirls is used because that is what they look like when we see them. They are not actually swirls but are straight lines. The way the light reflects gives the perception of a swirl. You would be taken out back and beaten on detailing forums if you told them you knowingly take your car through touch washes. Not that it matters because it's your car and like you say you are perfectly fine with your car's look. I am just anal about this stuff so it hits a nerve. Here is a GREAT article from Mike Phillips about different paint issues. It explains marring, swirls, rids, tracers etc http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/22234-tracers-rids-pigtails-cobweb-swirls-rotary-buffer-swirls-holograms-water-spots-bird-droping-etchings-micro-marring.html

 

 

Also opti coat is actually a new breed of protection. It's way beyond a normal sealant and bonds permanently until it is buffed off just like clear coat. These type of products are classified as coatings now since they are much stronger than sealants (goes from waxes -> sealants -> coatings). For some paints opti-coat is harder than the oem clear coat. It's absolutely fantastic and is a growing trend in car protection. Detail smarter and not harder. There are a few guys that have been involved with the development and have cars going on 4+ years and the coating is still protecting the same as day 1. It's amazing how well it protects our paint.

 

I didn't think any sealant was permanent - that's good to know.

 

I also realize professional detailers will never recommend any type of automatic car wash. But I'm not a perfectionist and they work fine for me with no visible paint damage (to me). I suspect most folks fall into my category.

[YanksWinAgain]

2012 Black on Black Edge Limited

 

I got some quotes from two detail places around here (Northern NJ) for the full job for a new car (sealant, etc.). It was more than I can afford ($450-$650). I realize they spend the whole day on it, but I am going to have to go for a regular detail job (~$150 exterior only). I am trying to avoid the car wash places that also do detailing since they seem to run the car through the car wash and then do the "detail work" after.

 

After I get that done, I am planning on using some spray bottle stuff in between washes/detailing. I was given the following as a gift and wanted to see what everyone thought and how I was planning to use it:

 

Meguiar's Ultimate Quick Detailer - outside painted areas

Meguiar's Quik Interior Detailer Cleaner - inside vinyl and outside black plastic (lower panels)

Meguiar's Gold Class Rich Leather Spray - leather surfaces

 

Thanks all...

[JOEHIO]

Use the products you received as a gift, and you'll be in pretty decent shape. May I suggest a good waxing before winter, ie Maguires Ultimate wax ($24.99 at Pep Boys) did a real nice job on a friends car I did with him, don't know how long it will hold up, but the shine is superb, and more slippery than a baby's ass ! The Ultimate Quick Detailer is nice for use

after washing the car, adds luster, but not to be used in place of a regular wax.

[NWS Alpine]

2012 Black on Black Edge Limited

 

I got some quotes from two detail places around here (Northern NJ) for the full job for a new car (sealant, etc.). It was more than I can afford ($450-$650). I realize they spend the whole day on it, but I am going to have to go for a regular detail job (~$150 exterior only). I am trying to avoid the car wash places that also do detailing since they seem to run the car through the car wash and then do the "detail work" after.

 

After I get that done, I am planning on using some spray bottle stuff in between washes/detailing. I was given the following as a gift and wanted to see what everyone thought and how I was planning to use it:

 

Meguiar's Ultimate Quick Detailer - outside painted areas

Meguiar's Quik Interior Detailer Cleaner - inside vinyl and outside black plastic (lower panels)

Meguiar's Gold Class Rich Leather Spray - leather surfaces

 

Thanks all...

 

If I were you i would not have the dealer touch the car so you won't need more than a 1 step polish or non at all. Look into the local sections on autopia.org or autogeek forums and ask for reputable detailers. Unfortunately there are way too many hacks out there that will ruin your paint. If you talk to a well known guy in your area they will work with your budget and what that will provide for you. There are a lot of guys who post on those forums looking for a detailer after the first guy messed up their car. Ended up spending way more than if they did it right the first time.

 

For example post here asking for help. They will steer you in the right direction http://www.autopia.org/forum/northeast-usa/

 

EDIT: here is one well known guy David http://www.streetdreamsdetail.com/index.html you might be able to at least call him and inquire about his services or his referral if he is outside your budget. The reputable guys tend to stick together in areas to protect people from bad detailers. They often will get cars from certain guys to fix.

Edited October 16, 2011 by NWS Alpine

[NWS Alpine]

I didn't think any sealant was permanent - that's good to know.

 

I also realize professional detailers will never recommend any type of automatic car wash. But I'm not a perfectionist and they work fine for me with no visible paint damage (to me). I suspect most folks fall into my category.

 

 

Yeah they are so different that they are referred to as coatings and not sealants. It' s a whole new breed and for the better.

[EdHarris]

Awesome! George at Detailed Image is a very experienced detailer and is awesome to deal with.

 

When using the Poorboys Spray & Wipe, make sure you have at least 3 clean good quality MF towels. You'll love this stuff. My vehicles always have this in the trunk along with a few MF towels, I never leave home without it!

 

Any other questions, just let me know.

 

I've used Invisible Glass for years and never had issues, until I recently purchased a 2011 Edge. I don't know what the dealer put on the windows (inside and out) when prepping the SUV for delivery, but now I get streaks, film, and definitely not a clean glass as with previous vehicles. I've used vinegar and water, clean microfiber towels, then gone back to Invisible Glass, and the same results. I'm miffed. Anyone have any additional thoughts or ideas?

 

Thanks

[cal3thousand]

I've used Invisible Glass for years and never had issues, until I recently purchased a 2011 Edge. I don't know what the dealer put on the windows (inside and out) when prepping the SUV for delivery, but now I get streaks, film, and definitely not a clean glass as with previous vehicles. I've used vinegar and water, clean microfiber towels, then gone back to Invisible Glass, and the same results. I'm miffed. Anyone have any additional thoughts or ideas?

 

Thanks

 

Same thing here. But I thought it was my fault for trying this Rain-X anti-fog crap. It was like buttering my windows to stop condensation .

 

Since then, I've been unable to completely eliminate it. It magically reappears in a week. O_o

 

 

 

[richy]

I suggest you get a specific glass mf towel. I use Zep glass cleaner that you can get at Home Depot. Other than that I'm not sure what to suggest for you guys.

[wilsons66604]

I suggest you get a specific glass mf towel. I use Zep glass cleaner that you can get at Home Depot. Other than that I'm not sure what to suggest for you guys.

I sure like the glass mf towel I purchased. The little "lizard skin" texture works pretty good.

[onewomanarmy]

We've just ordered a 2012 Edge (Mineral Gray Metallic w/ Charcoal interior). In the past, I've been pretty lackadasical about taking care of the details of our car's appearances for the most part. Which means I've generally driven through a car wash (all the while suspecting it probably wasn't the best thing to do to a car finish). I'm going to try to change my bad habits :surrender: but will be taking baby steps.

 

I've read through this thread and have learned a lot. I also know how slow I am at (properly) washing a car - so when I think about washing/drying, clay baring, sealing, waxing....this seems like a weeklong process to me. And I'm surely going to need to drive the car at some point in that process - so I'd have to start over (if I hadn't made it past the sealing stage). Also, being new to the steps beyond washing - I'm a little nervous that I'll cause more damage than I would have by not doing anything! The other problem is that I'm guessing we won't be picking up until mid-December or so. :violin:

 

SO, I'm putting together my plan and wanted to get some clarifications and/or suggestions. It sounds like the first step is catch the dealer and not let them touch the vehicle any more than possible! Which leads to my first question - just out of curiosity, what do you do different if the dealer has already "detailed" a new vehicle?

 

So, we get the vehicle (yay!) and take it home. Wash it properly (two buckets, sheepskin pad, etc), dry it with MF towel. This is where my big question comes in. I see that this is where most people use the clay bar to remove even more stuff from the clearcoat - but I've also seen mention of using a product like IronX. Generally one after the other. I'm a little worried that I'll a)do some damage with the clay bar and b)the time involved in doing this step will make it harder to get everything done that I'll need to do. So, keeping in mind that I'm new to this taking care of the finish thing, is just using the IronX a decent option? Or is that defeating the purpose and asking for more problems?

 

My next question, I've seen mention of Power Lock and UPGP - is one easier to use than the other? more highly recommended? longer lasting? I'll be doing more research but didn't seem to get a feel one way or the other on this thread. Also, I've noticed that Opti-Coat is a permanent sealant - why would you not use this vs the ones you have to reapply every few months?

 

How important is waxing after sealing? I've noticed that you are supposed to wait 24 hours for sealant to cure - what if you don't wax after that?

 

I guess I'm just trying to put together a plan that will best protect the finish of our new Edge, while at the same time being realistic about my ability to do all the steps (time-wise) and do them properly.

 

Whew! That's a lot of questions! Thanks for any input - and thanks for all the good information on these boards!

(Does anyone else have to ocassionally remind themselves when reading about the "MF" towels that the poster isn't angry with the towels? :eek5: )

[CanuckG35]

We've just ordered a 2012 Edge (Mineral Gray Metallic w/ Charcoal interior). In the past, I've been pretty lackadasical about taking care of the details of our car's appearances for the most part. Which means I've generally driven through a car wash (all the while suspecting it probably wasn't the best thing to do to a car finish). I'm going to try to change my bad habits :surrender: but will be taking baby steps.

 

I've read through this thread and have learned a lot. I also know how slow I am at (properly) washing a car - so when I think about washing/drying, clay baring, sealing, waxing....this seems like a weeklong process to me. And I'm surely going to need to drive the car at some point in that process - so I'd have to start over (if I hadn't made it past the sealing stage). Also, being new to the steps beyond washing - I'm a little nervous that I'll cause more damage than I would have by not doing anything! The other problem is that I'm guessing we won't be picking up until mid-December or so. :violin:

 

SO, I'm putting together my plan and wanted to get some clarifications and/or suggestions. It sounds like the first step is catch the dealer and not let them touch the vehicle any more than possible! Which leads to my first question - just out of curiosity, what do you do different if the dealer has already "detailed" a new vehicle?

 

So, we get the vehicle (yay!) and take it home. Wash it properly (two buckets, sheepskin pad, etc), dry it with MF towel. This is where my big question comes in. I see that this is where most people use the clay bar to remove even more stuff from the clearcoat - but I've also seen mention of using a product like IronX. Generally one after the other. I'm a little worried that I'll a)do some damage with the clay bar and b)the time involved in doing this step will make it harder to get everything done that I'll need to do. So, keeping in mind that I'm new to this taking care of the finish thing, is just using the IronX a decent option? Or is that defeating the purpose and asking for more problems?

 

My next question, I've seen mention of Power Lock and UPGP - is one easier to use than the other? more highly recommended? longer lasting? I'll be doing more research but didn't seem to get a feel one way or the other on this thread. Also, I've noticed that Opti-Coat is a permanent sealant - why would you not use this vs the ones you have to reapply every few months?

 

How important is waxing after sealing? I've noticed that you are supposed to wait 24 hours for sealant to cure - what if you don't wax after that?

 

I guess I'm just trying to put together a plan that will best protect the finish of our new Edge, while at the same time being realistic about my ability to do all the steps (time-wise) and do them properly.

 

Whew! That's a lot of questions! Thanks for any input - and thanks for all the good information on these boards!

(Does anyone else have to ocassionally remind themselves when reading about the "MF" towels that the poster isn't angry with the towels? :eek5: )

 

Lots of great questions. If I miss anything just let me know.

 

The reason why some of us do not let the dealership do their new car prep is because typically the person at the dealership doing the new car prep doesn't really know how to properly prep a vehicle and ends up doing more harm than good. I've had customers bring me their brand new vehicle after their dealer prepped it and the paint condition was horrible. Not saying that it's always the case with every dealership, but just a heads up nonetheless.

 

A mild claybar is typically used during a new car prep to remove all bonded surface contaminents from your paint that incurred during transit. Rail dust is a big culprit. When using a clay bar like Clay Magic's fine grade (and a good lubricant), you will have no issues doing any damage to your paint. Please keep in mind though that clay barring a new vehicle, while always recommended by detailers like myself, is not really something the average person needs to worry about. I don't want to discourage you from not doing it as I will always recommend it, but the majority of folks probably won't see a difference.

 

Regarding the use of Power Lock, it's as easy as it comes. Apply very thin layers of it, let it dry, and it wipes off like you were buffing air. One of the easiest products I've ever used. Regarding Opti-coat, I'll let richy answer that one as he as experience with it. Waxing after sealing is not important at all. Basically the only reason why some of us apply a carnuba wax over a sealant is for the added depth and gloss. Sealants are man made, and while they look very good, they do not provide the same depth and gloss to your paint that a natural carnuba does. So when people apply both a sealant and a carnuba, they getting the durability of a sealant and also the gloss of a carnuba. Having said that, the vast majority will love the look of a sealant just fine.

 

Any other questions, just let me know.

[Limited59]

I keep seeing this thread come up... don't usually pay much attention as I am not much or a detailer. For years I leased vehicles and, having lived in a highrise condo for many years, don't put much effort into my vehicles.

 

My regimen consists of nothing more than coin-op car washes where all I use are the high pressure wands. Honestly I haven't hand washed a vehicle of mine in going on 10 years. Yeah they look terrible most of the time but I don't really care that much. I replace my cars about once a year (although I would like to stretch that out to at least 3 years like when leases were available - if I can find one I can live with for that long) but it seems I can't get by but a few months without doing something stupid and damaging my paint job.

 

This morning I noticed I had been bombed by a bird... about a 3-inch blast... so I decided to take the car up to the coin wash. All is well... it needs a wash anyway with all the rain we've had recently. I notice the bird dropping isn't coming off all that well so I rub it with my finger (wear cotton gloves at the wash this time of year) and continue to hose the hood down. Eventually the hood looks clean... until I get back home and notice that I have indeed scratched the hood. Great. Just like I did on my 2010 Terrain's driver door shortly after I got it. I just need to learn NOT TO TOUCH the paint... cars these days scratch so darn easily.

 

So I have at least a couple of options.... leave it and let the dust and dirt fill in the scratch, or figure out a way to fix it. Picture attached... I can almost feel it when I run my fingernail across it. I'm assuming the white means I've scratched through the clear coat....

 

Any ideas about how I can get rid of this little nightmare? Need to use OTC products as the temps are dropping and my window to fix it is closing rapidly...

 

Note to self.... have to stop buying black cars... wanted a white one this time but the only white Limited had a trailer hitch which I thought took away from the look of the rear end.

 

Many thanks

Adam

[onewomanarmy]

Thanks Canuck!

 

You've put some of my worries at ease. I was afraid by not doing things exactly so at the beginning, I'd regret it later - but at the same time, worried that I was biting off more than I could chew. It's a big step from driving through a gas station car wash to clay barring and sealing a new car for the first time! I've really learned a lot from your posts and the discussion around them. I feel so much more informed and better able to take care of our new Edge. Now, if it will just get here...

 

thanks again for all the info - wish you and your business were a litle closer! :D

[cal3thousand]

I keep seeing this thread come up... don't usually pay much attention as I am not much or a detailer. For years I leased vehicles and, having lived in a highrise condo for many years, don't put much effort into my vehicles.

 

My regimen consists of nothing more than coin-op car washes where all I use are the high pressure wands. Honestly I haven't hand washed a vehicle of mine in going on 10 years. Yeah they look terrible most of the time but I don't really care that much. I replace my cars about once a year (although I would like to stretch that out to at least 3 years like when leases were available - if I can find one I can live with for that long) but it seems I can't get by but a few months without doing something stupid and damaging my paint job.

 

This morning I noticed I had been bombed by a bird... about a 3-inch blast... so I decided to take the car up to the coin wash. All is well... it needs a wash anyway with all the rain we've had recently. I notice the bird dropping isn't coming off all that well so I rub it with my finger (wear cotton gloves at the wash this time of year) and continue to hose the hood down. Eventually the hood looks clean... until I get back home and notice that I have indeed scratched the hood. Great. Just like I did on my 2010 Terrain's driver door shortly after I got it. I just need to learn NOT TO TOUCH the paint... cars these days scratch so darn easily.

 

So I have at least a couple of options.... leave it and let the dust and dirt fill in the scratch, or figure out a way to fix it. Picture attached... I can almost feel it when I run my fingernail across it. I'm assuming the white means I've scratched through the clear coat....

 

Any ideas about how I can get rid of this little nightmare? Need to use OTC products as the temps are dropping and my window to fix it is closing rapidly...

 

Note to self.... have to stop buying black cars... wanted a white one this time but the only white Limited had a trailer hitch which I thought took away from the look of the rear end.

 

Many thanks

Adam

 

Bird bombs will etch your clear coat if left too long (they are very acidic). How long was the poop there?

 

 

You might be lucky and able to remove the etching with a polish or swirl remover.

 

 

 

[CanuckG35]

^ Yep, that bad boy is definitely etched into your paint. Unfortunately it's rather common when left on your paint for too long. Adam, if you are able to pick up an OTC product like ScratchX you should be able to remove it. Btw, did you have any paint protection applied?

[CanuckG35]

Thanks Canuck!

 

You've put some of my worries at ease. I was afraid by not doing things exactly so at the beginning, I'd regret it later - but at the same time, worried that I was biting off more than I could chew. It's a big step from driving through a gas station car wash to clay barring and sealing a new car for the first time! I've really learned a lot from your posts and the discussion around them. I feel so much more informed and better able to take care of our new Edge. Now, if it will just get here...

 

thanks again for all the info - wish you and your business were a litle closer! :D

 

You're very welcome! Any other questions just let me know.

 

Cheers,

 

Shane

[richy]

Onewomanarmy, IronX is an amazing product. Live2detail.com has a comprehensive review on it. It basically replaces clay. OptiCoat is not for beginners. I would recommend CQuartz or Element119 instead. Probably CQ more. L2D has lots of info on all of them.

[Sac AZN On the EDGE]

I'm curious to know what the professional detailers feel about PPF (paint protection film) like "Clear-Bra" and similar products. I have a Platinum White Edge and am concerned about any section of my car covered by it yellowing (over time) and how obvious it will become on the parts of the car that does not have the PPF on it. I think PPF makes good sense because it protects my car's finish, but is it worth the cost (I plan to have it professionally applied as opposed to DIY)? I have estimates to have most of my car protected for between $3700-$4200 (covers complete front bumper, FULL hood, both outside mirris, all FOUR doors, complete rear bumper, headlights and fenders).

 

Should I still need to be as meticulous with washing the car as I would without the PPF? Would the products you recommend for a car with PPF be any different?

 

I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section, but I do want to get the opinions from the pros.

 

Thanks guys, I am amazed at the level of knowledge and patience you share on this forum.

~Sac AZN

Edited November 3, 2011 by Sac AZN On the EDGE

[cal3thousand]

I'm curious to know what the professional detailers feel about PPF (paint protection film) like "Clear-Bra" and similar products. I have a Platinum White Edge and am concerned about any section of my car covered by it yellowing (over time) and how obvious it will become on the parts of the car that does not have the PPF on it. I think PPF makes good sense because it protects my car's finish, but is it worth the cost (I plan to have it professionally applied as opposed to DIY)? I have estimates to have most of my car protected for between $3700-$4200 (covers complete front bumper, FULL hood, both outside mirris, all FOUR doors, complete rear bumper, headlights and fenders).

 

Should I still need to be as meticulous with washing the car as I would without the PPF? Would the products you recommend for a car with PPF be any different?

 

I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section, but I do want to get the opinions from the pros.

 

Thanks guys, I am amazed at the level of knowledge and patience you share on this forum.

~Sac AZN

 

$3700 - $4200 ? Wow that's a lot of money.

 

I would (personally) pocket that cash. If you end up with any paint issues, that money will go a long way in repainting a vehicle. And if you have comprehensive insurance, it will cost even less out of pocket if and when something arises.

Edited November 3, 2011 by cal3thousand

[CanuckG35]

I'm curious to know what the professional detailers feel about PPF (paint protection film) like "Clear-Bra" and similar products. I have a Platinum White Edge and am concerned about any section of my car covered by it yellowing (over time) and how obvious it will become on the parts of the car that does not have the PPF on it. I think PPF makes good sense because it protects my car's finish, but is it worth the cost (I plan to have it professionally applied as opposed to DIY)? I have estimates to have most of my car protected for between $3700-$4200 (covers complete front bumper, FULL hood, both outside mirris, all FOUR doors, complete rear bumper, headlights and fenders).

 

Should I still need to be as meticulous with washing the car as I would without the PPF? Would the products you recommend for a car with PPF be any different?

 

I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section, but I do want to get the opinions from the pros.

 

Thanks guys, I am amazed at the level of knowledge and patience you share on this forum.

~Sac AZN

 

Sac, I would definitely recommend getting a clear bra applied as they can be a real paint saver. Definitely get it done by a professional installer. Also, Xpel makes a great film cleaner that will prevent it from yellowing over time. Personally, I think getting the entire vehicle clear bra'd is a little overkill and very expensive. Most people just get the front bumper, hood, and mirrors done to protect against rock chips. IMHO, that's all that's really need and you'll save yourself a ton of money.

 

After you get it installed, let it cure for at least 3 days and then you can apply your favourite wax or sealant over top.

 

Cheers,

 

Shane

[wilsons66604]

I thought about a clear bra but feared that it wouldn't age well.

 

( Why is it that I can't help but think of my grandparent's plastic covered sofa? )

[akirby]

( Why is it that I can't help but think of my grandparent's plastic covered sofa? )

 

Exactly!

 

It's not like paint is fragile. The chances of getting damaged paint anywhere but the front or the side mirrors outside of an accident is extremely minor and not worth the money or the hassle.

[CanuckG35]

I thought about a clear bra but feared that it wouldn't age well.

 

( Why is it that I can't help but think of my grandparent's plastic covered sofa? )

 

 

 

They actually age quite well when taken care of properly. They are a real life saver for your paint to guard against rock chips. I probably wouldn't get one if I leased the vehicle, but if you plan on keeping your vehicle for a some time, I would highly recommend one.

[Sac AZN On the EDGE]

hmmmm, you guys are probably right and covering the entire car is overkill. I guess my looking back to my old cars and how many times the door panels have been dinged by a rouge grocery cart in the parking lot, or an over enthusiastic child jumping out of their car parked next to mine and flinging their car door open or a knee to waist high garden gnome or fire hydrant suddenly appearing out of no where and attacking my bumper, even the crazy "drunk" that thinks opening his house door by trying to place his key into a quarter panel of my car (ok, so its not a drunk, rather some kook bent on pissing people off by keying cars along the way) has me paranoid.

 

But that's the point of PPF, right? To PROTECT the paint from things like that as well as potential rock chips. I just wish they had some kind of film for my windshield! OK, I'm partly kidding there, but I have gone through many windshields over the million miles I've driven.

 

~Sac AZN

[CanuckG35]

Exactly!

 

It's not like paint is fragile. The chances of getting damaged paint anywhere but the front or the side mirrors outside of an accident is extremely minor and not worth the money or the hassle.

 

Actually, today's paint is rather fragile as they are all water based now due to environmental reasons. Water based paints are very much softer than the old oil based paints and are way more susceptible to rock chips.