curio Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) The only thing these tunes do is advance the timing a few degrees necessitating the use of premium fuel. No that isn't the only thing custom tunes do. They also adjust STFT & LTFT, WOT fuel, optimize air/fuel ratio through the fuel trim & MAS adjustment, adjust knock detection, adjust shift points, adjust the firmness of the shifts for less clutch slip, increase drive-by-wire throttle positions and accuracy, and increase factory conservative rev limits - and these ideal points are found from dyno mapping your specific vehicle and applying it to your specific ECU. They also allow for datalogging for even finer tuning, cooling fan on/off temp adjustments, speedometer adjustments for different tire sizes, and allow for adjustments if you change gear ratios. Hardly just a simple timing advancement like you suggest. BTW, the design and size of the stock air intake can support up to 400 hp so adding a new smoother flowing or larger diameter air inlet tube is a waste of money. If you want to spend $500 + for an additional 10hp that is up to you. How much flow it can handle has zero to do with the turbulence - and an increase in diameter certainly increases HP through more air flow. If aftermarket intakes don't increase airflow, then why do aftermarket intakes typically lean out the mixture; thus usually requiring a custom tune to get the air/fuel ratio back within spec? And if more air flow doesn't increase HP, then why do superchargers and turbos work? And a good intake with a custom tune for the 3.5L Ford Edge can add up to 35 HP and near 30 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels edit: a custom tune doesn't cost $500 either. The tunes themselves cost as little as $65 if you already have a compatible flash device. Even if you have to purchase a flash device most places charge about $400 and that includes multiple tunes for different octanes - and they don't 'necessitate' a 'premium' fuel (I put premium in quotes because that's a misnomer); you can still get a tune for 87 octane if you want. Edited March 24, 2011 by curio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 The hp bump from 265 to 285 from 2010 to 2011 was simply a reprogram of the stock pcm. Nope. The hp gain was from Twin VCT (intake and exhaust) versus Single VCT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Just wanted to chime in here on custom tunes. I have been directly involed in them on a dyno and can tell you they affect shift points, timing, and fuel ratio at various throttle positions - WOT, idle, and various other positions. I have personally seen proven on a dyno that it will make a difference in power. Having said that, I don't know anything about the brand being mentioned here. I know Superchips was a really good brand for Fords a few years ago, not sure about now. I think that most claims by any manufacturer are going to be exagerated for marketing purposes, and one could certainly debate whether the cost is worth the gain. I've had two vehicles done, noticed improvements to both in power. In my old 96 F150 it even seemed to make better mileage if you kept your foot out of it, but was considerably worse if you drove it hard. It really makes sense when you see the custom tune done with fuel ratios. If you dump more fuel in, you are going to burn more - there is no way around that. I think claims of better mileage could be made that with more power readily available, some people may have the engine laboring less to keep certain speeds(less throttle position) which could affect mileage to the better, but I think more often than not you will see a decrease in mileage. Just my $.02 - I didn't read the whole thread, just that last page and thought I'd offer my experience up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feirstein Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 So let me see, Ford with all its money, technology and brains, can't put out an Edge with more porwer and better fuel economy merely by tweeking the chip settings. I just don't buy it. There is no way to run the Edge on regular octane fuel while meeting Federal Clean Air requirements, and acceptable operation in all weather conditions, and still pull this off. If it could be done, Ford would have done it. Can you swap clean air for more power under certain driving conditions? Yes. Can you swap more power for less fuel efficiency and less acceptable motor performance under all weather conditions, yes, but then again there are those clean air requirements. If you want more performance there is no easy substiture for increase displacement and increased compression. On the other hand, Ford can afford to provide Direct Fuel Injection, combined with turbo chargers, and reduced vehicle weight. Give them another year of two for this to become a common approach to give us our cake while we gain improved fuel economy and perhaps improved performance, all on regular fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curio Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) So let me see, Ford with all its money, technology and brains, can't put out an Edge with more porwer and better fuel economy merely by tweeking the chip settings. I just don't buy it. There is no way to run the Edge on regular octane fuel while meeting Federal Clean Air requirements, and acceptable operation in all weather conditions, and still pull this off. If it could be done, Ford would have done it. Well I run regular octane (87) with my tune, while still passing emissions, and it operates just fine in all weather conditions. I just happen to do it all quicker then you Besides, I'm not sure how changing shift points, shift firmness and changing the fuel trim & timing would make for non-acceptable operation in certain weather conditions. These aren't carbureted engines. As far as emissions are concerned, passing is always more about the usual suspects than it is about a tune - ie spark plugs, oil changes, air filter, O2 sensors, catalytic converter etc... And I hate to break it to you, but most manufacturers including Ford have been tuning conservatively for decades now. Heck even a 2011 Corvette ZR1 or Mustang Boss 302 can benefit from good custom tuning. And I'm not talking about getting some 'g-force' IAT resistor or a turbonator; I'm talking about proper dyno mapping from respectable tuners, which can be quite beneficial for most cars. Shelby, Steeda, Roush & Saleen have been custom tuning Ford's for decades now - and they all maintain a good direct working relationship with Ford in the process. If they provided no benefit, or blew up engines, or caused Ford's to fail emissions; then they would have been out of business by the 1970's. Besides tuning conservative in the first place, frankly it just isn't cost effective for Ford to make tunes that perfectly satisfy every type of condition for their mass produced vehicles. So unless you're buying a Ford GT, it pays to get a custom tune. If you have a laptop, you can then datalog your vehicle, let the tuner adjust it and really get it dialed in. If you really want to fine tune it even further than that, go get it dyno'd yourself at a local shop - you just might find some differences between your map and the tuner's. And just so you know, Ford releases new ECU firmware (tunes) all the time - you can probably go to your dealer tomorrow and get them to flash your ECU to the latest code. And they do this because they are constantly tweaking the software of their vehicles, which should show you that even Dearborn changes things around in their own tunes. But they ALWAYS keep their tunes conservative; mainly for liability reasons. But not always for liability either - sometimes they do it for comfort. For instance, Ford factory tunes use softer shifts for auto transmissions - which sacrifices clutch slip & tranny temps in the name of comfort. Overall, whether for liability, performance or comfort, factory tunes leave plenty of headroom to tweak and still maintain safe specs - and that's what the people over at Shelby, Steeda, Roush & Saleen do best. Edited March 29, 2011 by curio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgieguy Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Well put. Well I run regular octane (87) with my tune, while still passing emissions, and it operates just fine in all weather conditions. I just happen to do it all quicker then you Besides, I'm not sure how changing shift points, shift firmness and changing the fuel trim & timing would make for non-acceptable operation in certain weather conditions. These aren't carbureted engines. As far as emissions are concerned, passing is always more about the usual suspects than it is about a tune - ie spark plugs, oil changes, air filter, O2 sensors, catalytic converter etc... And I hate to break it to you, but most manufacturers including Ford have been tuning conservatively for decades now. Heck even a 2011 Corvette ZR1 or Mustang Boss 302 can benefit from good custom tuning. And I'm not talking about getting some 'g-force' IAT resistor or a turbonator; proper dyno mapping from respectable tuners can be quite beneficial for most cars. Shelby, Steeda, Roush & Saleen have been custom tuning Ford's for decades now - and they all maintain a good direct working relationship with Ford in the process. If they provided no benefit, or blew up engines, or caused Ford's to fail emissions; then they would have been out of business by the 1970's. Besides tuning conservative in the first place, frankly it just isn't cost effective for Ford to make tunes that perfectly satisfy every type of condition for their mass produced vehicles. So unless you're buying a Ford GT, it pays to get a custom tune. If you have a laptop, you can then datalog it yourself and really get it dialed in. If you really want to fine tune it even further than that, go get it dyno'd yourself at a local shop - you just might find some differences between your map and the tuner's. And just so you know, Ford releases new ECU firmware (tunes) all the time - you can probably go to your dealer tomorrow and get them to flash your ECU to the latest code. And they do this because they are tweaking the settings, which should show you that even Dearborn changes things around in their own tunes. But they ALWAYS keep their tunes it conservative; mainly for liability reasons. But not always for liability either - sometimes they do it for comfort. For instance, Ford factory tunes use softer shifts for autos - which sacrifices clutch slip & tranny temps in the name of comfort. Overall, whether for liability, performance or comfort, factory tunes leave plenty of headroom to tweak and still maintain safe specs - and that's what the people over at Shelby, Steeda, Roush & Saleen do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
az07edge Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Put a KN Cold air intake and a Hypertech e-con programmer and average 24.5-25mpg all around. 22-23 in city and 27-29 hwy at 72mph. They work great and will save fuel as long as you don't drive it like a teenager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinLine Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 LMAO @ "30 ft-lbs at the wheels". Hahahaha !! Show me the dyno baby ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curio Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) LMAO @ "30 ft-lbs at the wheels". Hahahaha !! Show me the dyno baby ! All I could find was this video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqCh6DFn7hM The chart is blurry and you can't see any ft-lbs numbers, but the horsepower numbers are clear - 206.6 at the wheels after intake and SCT custom tune. That's around 35 more at the wheels since I'm guessing these pre-2011 vehicles put down around 170 stock (and even less for the AWD versions). That would make me assume the torque is around 20-25 ft-lbs more at the wheels in that video, but that's just a guess too. I wish they showed more of the chart, so frankly I'll have to take Steeda's word for it. I've seen charts of theirs on Mustangs though and they were always legit. Here's some info I found about it on this forum: http://www.fordedgef...teeda-cold-air/ Edited April 7, 2011 by curio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Stross Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 anyone have numbers or specs from an SCT tune? i spoke to someone at steeda and they said their tune can give you little stuff like a few more hp, better throttle response, gas mileage, etc but i dont want to waste $400 if it doesnt do much of anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feirstein Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Passing a local emission test is not the same thing as Ford haveing to run each and every motor/transmission combination with the settings fixed by the chip at the factory, for a 50,000 mile test. If the combination does not pass this long and expensive test it cannot be sold! This means it must be run under hot and cold conditions, etc. Changing the tune with a chip program by a dealer is not legal because it violates emission regulations. Some people care about the air we breath; some don't. Not at all likely that the "EPA Police" will every catch this, since the modification is expensive and thus not all that common. The potential fine would be placed against the shop making the modification. Last I looked it was about $5,000.00 a pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson5 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 My thoughts? I have had 4 GTIs, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010.. all chipped. i had a 2005 wrx, chipped. i had a 2008 BMW 135i, chipped. the only cars worth chipping are turbos. It just isnt worth the money vs the return when chipping a car/truck like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 My thoughts? I have had 4 GTIs, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010.. all chipped. i had a 2005 wrx, chipped. i had a 2008 BMW 135i, chipped. the only cars worth chipping are turbos. It just isnt worth the money vs the return when chipping a car/truck like this. Totally agreed. Chips for forced induction engines: 75+ HP and similar torque increases are easy and cost a few hundred dollars. That same few hundred dollars tuning on an NA car will net you 10, maybe 20 HP and only a couple lb-ft of torque. Especially true if the maps are already tuned well from the factory. It's going to be difficult to squeeze more than 285 HP from this 3.5L NA mill without other bolt-ons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curio Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Changing the tune with a chip program by a dealer is not legal because it violates emission regulations. It isn't illegal. Well maybe it is in California, but not in any of the other 49 states. Totally agreed. Chips for forced induction engines: 75+ HP and similar torque increases are easy and cost a few hundred dollars. That same few hundred dollars tuning on an NA car will net you 10, maybe 20 HP and only a couple lb-ft of torque. Especially true if the maps are already tuned well from the factory. It's going to be difficult to squeeze more than 285 HP from this 3.5L NA mill without other bolt-ons. 10-20 horses isn't exactly small change. And a CAI will make that even better (not exactly the most complicated or expensive bolt on); along with keeping your air/fuel ratio in spec. And personally I find the change to the drive-by-wire throttle response to be worth it in itself. And again the tunes are NOT a few hundred dollars - the tuning device is what costs so much. Most tunes are only $60 or so. Edited June 3, 2011 by curio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodolfo Hernandez Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 Hello, does anyone know if a hydrogen cell can be used on an Edge ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 No, it's a scam/urban myth. They don't work and it's off topic for this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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