Paint Protection/Sealants

[DJ Starr]

So I clicked through a link on the forum here www.5starshine.com and I have no idea whether to believe it or not. Sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors but could also have some merit. Here's where it gets odd though. I google it for reviews and most forums say they have never tried it, no idea, yadda yadda. But then on a Mazda 6 forum there's a guy absolutely RANTING AND RAVING about it, I must admit, his car looked VERY NICE. Here's the catch, it is an affiliate based marketing product, I suspect fordedgeforum may be one as well but that's fine with me. If I am going to buy something, why not support the forum?

 

Anyhow, back to my point, this guy with his Mazda sounded SO in love with it, I would not be suprised if he was an affiliate BUT his car looked so damn nice.

 

Bottom line is this, I just spent more money on my Edge then I have ever spent on a rig. I want it to stay nice for many years, what is the best advice you folks could give me?

 

Thanks in advance!

[MKX70301]

So I clicked through a link on the forum here www.5starshine.com and I have no idea whether to believe it or not. Sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors but could also have some merit. Here's where it gets odd though. I google it for reviews and most forums say they have never tried it, no idea, yadda yadda. But then on a Mazda 6 forum there's a guy absolutely RANTING AND RAVING about it, I must admit, his car looked VERY NICE. Here's the catch, it is an affiliate based marketing product, I suspect fordedgeforum may be one as well but that's fine with me. If I am going to buy something, why not support the forum?

 

Anyhow, back to my point, this guy with his Mazda sounded SO in love with it, I would not be suprised if he was an affiliate BUT his car looked so damn nice.

 

Bottom line is this, I just spent more money on my Edge then I have ever spent on a rig. I want it to stay nice for many years, what is the best advice you folks could give me?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

What exactly are you asking about? If I read between the lines, I suspect you are asking whether or not it is a good idea to purchase the dealer "installed" paint protection or sealant or whatever they call it. My feeling is that this is something like a good wax job and a high profit item for the dealer. However, I am not sure what kind of product this is exactly. I actually got it on my last car (2000 town car) just because the dealer did some nice things for me and since I actually got a very good price, I decided to do something nice for him. Did it look nice, yes it did. Was it worth it, prob not. Can someone on the inside tell us exactly what this product is?

[DJ Starr]

I guess what I am asking is 5starshine.com really a good product, is it worth the time and money ($70) versus other waxes?

 

And yes, is the dealer protection a good value or is it just up to good ol' elbow grease going forward.

 

If so, are there any waxes/synthetics to recommend or stay away from?

[jimmerz]

Looks interesting. Ziebart also does a thing called Diamond Gloss, it is Something they recommend annually. It is somewhere between $199-249 first time then $99 every year after that, it is pricey But it looks fantastic. I know a local guy that does Detailing (for over 15 years now) and he said if you just get a good wash wax buff every 6 months using a good wax you will keep your car looking like new? He charges $55 for his Detail.

 

So, is $70 too much? Well even if it works Half as good as the advertisement says, sounds like it is worth a try. How about keeping us posted if you do buy it. We might follow your lead.

[ctrcbob]

Sounds like "Mouse Milk" (Snake Oil) to me.

 

If you want to hear Ranting and Raving about a product, listen up. I tried the new "ICE", the Polish not the Detailer, by TurtleWax. This stuff is GREAT. Took me all of 25 minutes to polish my MKZ, only because I had not used it before. (Took me 20 minutes to polish my Continental). Can be applied in Sun or Shade, hot or cold. I Followed instructions. Spread it on whole car. Let it dry (see below), then wipe off with a MicroSwirl cloth. Leaves NO RESIDUE.

 

Because I'm lazy <grin>, I did not want to wait for the polish to dry, so I started to wipe it off, first with an old t-shirt in my right hand and the microswirl cloth in my left hand. Worked great. Start to finish in less than 25 minutes. In addition, a little goes a loooooooong way. At first I thought the price was high at about $15 or $16, (got mine on sale for $12) but I've used it twice now, (once on each car) and the bottle looks like it has hardly been used. I can probably do 40 cars with a bottle. As for beading up, I was downtown last week and there was an 06 Zephyr parked next to me. Started to rain. While raining, both cars were beaded up. Once the rain ended, the 06 Zephyr dried up fairly quick, however my car still had lots of water drops on it. I wiped it away before I drove off.

 

Works as advertised and I'm happy with this ICE Polish. Again, this is the polish, not the ICE Detailer, which I have not used yet. (I understand they also have an ICE Car Wash).

[BrentMKXElite]

I was told by a guy I work with that Griot's Garage, Paint Sealant (www.griotsgarage) is a must have for a daily driver vehicle. I recently got a MKX and he recommended their products to me. They have a pretty good website and they claim, as does my co-worker that the paint sealant holds prestige for a whole year. I myself typically would do it twice a year, but to each their own. Worth a check out. I just heard about them today. I'll probably be ordering some stuff from there.

[CanuckG35]

I would not waste your money on that product, or any form of paint protection provided by a dealership. As a professional detailer myself, I can tell you that there is not one single detailer that I know would ever use a product like 5starshine.

 

There are two forms of paint protection products, waxes and synthetic polymer sealants. Waxes are a natural product, whereas a sealant is a synthetic product. Carnuba waxes offter added depth and gloss to your paint (a wet look), however they are not very durable. Your typical wax only lasts about 4-6 weeks, then it will need to be reapplied. A sealant sometimes doesn't give quite the depth and gloss to your paint, however it's MUCH more durable than a wax. Your typical sealant will last 4-6 months before it needs to be reapplied. What detailers like myself do is combine both products so you get the advantages of both products. Apply your sealant of choice, let it cure for 24 hours, then apply your favourite carnuba.

 

I would highly recommend a good sealant like Menzerna Power Lock, Poorboys EX-P, Zaino Z2 or Z5, Blackfire Wet Diamond, or Chemical Guys Jetseal.

 

Any other questions, just let me know.

[revOevoM]

I would not waste your money on that product, or any form of paint protection provided by a dealership. As a professional detailer myself, I can tell you that there is not one single detailer that I know would ever use a product like 5starshine.

 

There are two forms of paint protection products, waxes and synthetic polymer sealants. Waxes are a natural product, whereas a sealant is a synthetic product. Carnuba waxes offter added depth and gloss to your paint (a wet look), however they are not very durable. Your typical wax only lasts about 4-6 weeks, then it will need to be reapplied. A sealant sometimes doesn't give quite the depth and gloss to your paint, however it's MUCH more durable than a wax. Your typical sealant will last 4-6 months before it needs to be reapplied. What detailers like myself do is combine both products so you get the advantages of both products. Apply your sealant of choice, let it cure for 24 hours, then apply your favourite carnuba.

 

I would highly recommend a good sealant like Menzerna Power Lock, Poorboys EX-P, Zaino Z2 or Z5, Blackfire Wet Diamond, or Chemical Guys Jetseal.

 

Any other questions, just let me know.

Canuck, if you remember, I was the one who likes zymöl. I felt like it lasted well beyond 4-6 weeks. I guess it depends how much the vehicle is driven, in rain, in sun, etc. Mine is always garaged when not being used. That being said... here's the question about a new 2011 Edge.

 

I was cleaning the windows and applying Rain-X. I noticed when my terrycloth was rubbed over the painted surface of the car, it is not very smooth at all. You know that great smoothness you get when freshly waxed? Well, BluEdge doesn't have it. I have always heard that a new car's finish (paint) should not be detailed, sealed, waxed until at least about three months. Time to cure? Not sure that still applies with car finishes & clearcoats nowadays. It hasn't rained since I've had my Edge. I have no idea how water may or may not bead up.

 

I would surely like it to have that smooth clean finish. Better for it; easier to keep clean. What's your take? I've used Zaino glass cleaner before, but not any of their sealants. I would like to treat BluEdge right from the start. Whaddaya think? Oh - one more thing: I noticed zymöl doesn't have different formulas for different paint anymore (Japon, German, light colors, dark colors). Does it matter any more?

 

Thanks for your expert opinion.

[CanuckG35]

Canuck, if you remember, I was the one who likes zymöl. I felt like it lasted well beyond 4-6 weeks. I guess it depends how much the vehicle is driven, in rain, in sun, etc. Mine is always garaged when not being used. That being said... here's the question about a new 2011 Edge.

 

I was cleaning the windows and applying Rain-X. I noticed when my terrycloth was rubbed over the painted surface of the car, it is not very smooth at all. You know that great smoothness you get when freshly waxed? Well, BluEdge doesn't have it. I have always heard that a new car's finish (paint) should not be detailed, sealed, waxed until at least about three months. Time to cure? Not sure that still applies with car finishes & clearcoats nowadays. It hasn't rained since I've had my Edge. I have no idea how water may or may not bead up.

 

I would surely like it to have that smooth clean finish. Better for it; easier to keep clean. What's your take? I've used Zaino glass cleaner before, but not any of their sealants. I would like to treat BluEdge right from the start. Whaddaya think? Oh - one more thing: I noticed zymöl doesn't have different formulas for different paint anymore (Japon, German, light colors, dark colors). Does it matter any more?

 

Thanks for your expert opinion.

 

Yep, I certainly remember. If you get anything beyond 6 weeks durability with your Zymol, you are doing very well, but I know it's not impossible either. A wax's durability will soley depend on a person's washing habits along with many other environmental factors. On average though, if you can close to 6 weeks durability on a carnuba, you are doing good.

 

You can absolutely detail/clay/wax/seal the paint on today's water based paints. The days of waiting for oil based paints to cure are gone. The typical routine for a detailer to do a new car prep is wash, claybar, polish, and then apply your LSP of choice. Claybaring is an important part of the process as it will remove all of the surface contamination for your paint. Brand new vehicles always should be claybarred as they always have rail dust and other surface contamination bonded to the paint.

 

Lastly, although Zymol doesn't formuate their waxes to lighter or darker colours, however a number of manufacturers do like Poorboys, Dodo Juice, etc. IMO, it does make a significant difference.

 

I hope this helps.

[revOevoM]

I hope this helps.

Thanks dude... might take a while... I'll letcha know...

[CanuckG35]

No problem, anytime. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[DJ Nap]

as a pro detailer as well, I agree w/ Can...if your paint is feeling rough, definitely do the clay process..I clayed/polished/waxed this '08 Rolls Phantom. GREAT results.

[CanuckG35]

^ Nice work DJ, looks awesome!

 

 

The paint on my S2000 after a clay/two stage polish/seal/wax.

 

Edited October 6, 2010 by CanuckG35

[DJ Nap]

NICE!!!

[tahoebum]

Yep, I certainly remember. If you get anything beyond 6 weeks durability with your Zymol, you are doing very well, but I know it's not impossible either. A wax's durability will soley depend on a person's washing habits along with many other environmental factors. On average though, if you can close to 6 weeks durability on a carnuba, you are doing good.

 

You can absolutely detail/clay/wax/seal the paint on today's water based paints. The days of waiting for oil based paints to cure are gone. The typical routine for a detailer to do a new car prep is wash, claybar, polish, and then apply your LSP of choice. Claybaring is an important part of the process as it will remove all of the surface contamination for your paint. Brand new vehicles always should be claybarred as they always have rail dust and other surface contamination bonded to the paint.

 

Lastly, although Zymol doesn't formuate their waxes to lighter or darker colours, however a number of manufacturers do like Poorboys, Dodo Juice, etc. IMO, it does make a significant difference.

 

I hope this helps.

Canuck has a lot of great advice, but I wanted to add some clarity to how long you have to wait to wax or seal you paint. If it's factory paint(which I assume it is), go ahead and put any wax or sealant you want on it when you pick it up from the dealer. The OEM's paint process is completely different from that of a body shop(bake cycles are at a higher temp and more complete). By the time the dealer gets the car, the paint is fully cured.

 

If you had paint work done at body shop, ask them how many days they recommend before waxing or sealing. It will differ by paint manufacture but most will tell you 30+ days and that should suffice, unless temperatures are very cold. If it's very hot, say over 85 degrees and sunny, most paints will be cured within a week. Also, all OEM and aftermarket clear coats are solvent based, as are the primers and sealers. In the collision repair market, ONLY the base coat(or color coat, if you prefer) is "water-based", and only in parts of California and some states in the Northeast. That "water-based" base coat has a few coats of solvent base primer and or sealer underneath it and 2-3 coats of solvent based clear coat on top. The vast majority of cars painted in U.S. body shops are painted with all solvent based paints.

 

Also, I'll throw in my 2 cents on waxes/sealants. Go with a trusted name that actually has some R&D behind their products, not just marketing. I prefer 3M. They also own Meguiar's lock, stock, and barrel; although 3M dominates the professional(body shop) market and Meguiar's is more for the mass-market, do it yourselfer. 3M spent $1.4 billion on R&D as a company last year, which is probably more than the combined sales of all the other companies mentioned on these discussion boards. There is a reason for that, they simply make great products, whether it's masking tape, the reflective material on all the road signs, or the latest filling material that your dentist put in. IMO, 3M makes the best compounds, polishes, paint sealants, and fine grade abrasives for wet sanding. There 3000 grit Trizact DA sand paper is amazing, as is their Ultrafine polish and Performance Finish paint sealant.

Edited March 28, 2011 by tahoebum

[PrinzII]

Canuck has a lot of great advice, but I wanted to add some clarity to how long you have to wait to wax or seal you paint. If it's factory paint(which I assume it is), go ahead and put any wax or sealant you want on it when you pick it up from the dealer. The OEM's paint process is completely different from that of a body shop(bake cycles are at a higher temp and more complete). By the time the dealer gets the car, the paint is fully cured.

 

If you had paint work done at body shop, ask them how many days they recommend before waxing or sealing. It will differ by paint manufacture but most will tell you 30+ days and that should suffice, unless temperatures are very cold. If it's very hot, say over 85 degrees and sunny, most paints will be cured within a week. Also, all OEM and aftermarket clear coats are solvent based, as are the primers and sealers. In the collision repair market, ONLY the base coat(or color coat, if you prefer) is "water-based", and only in parts of California and some states in the Northeast. That "water-based" base coat has a few coats of solvent bases primer and or sealer underneath it and 2-3 coats of solvent based clear coat on top. The vast majority of cars painted in U.S. body shops are painted with all solvent based paints.

 

Also, I'll throw in my 2 cents on waxes/sealants. Go with a trusted name that actually has some R&D behind their products, not just marketing. I prefer 3M. They also own Meguiar's lock, stock, and barrel; although 3M dominates the professional(body shop) market and Meguiar's is more for the mass-market, do it yourselfer. 3M spent $1.4 billion on R&D as a company last year, which is probably more than the combined sales of all the other companies mentioned on these discussion boards. There is a reason for that, they simply make great products, whether it's masking tape, the reflective material on all the road signs, or the latest filling material that your dentist put in. IMO, 3M makes the best compounds, polishes, paint sealants, and fine grade abrasives for wet sanding. There 3000 grit Trizact DA sand paper is amazing, as is their Ultrafine polish and Performance Finish paint sealant.

 

 

I have used a plethora (literally) of polishes and sealants on my vehicles. I have used Klasse for years and don't see me giving that up any time soon. However, what some people aren't saying is that you can put some carnauba waxes on top of synthetic sealants to add more depth and pop. Klasse has held up nicely during a Chicago Winter and Phoenix Summer (durability is around 6 months).

 

For instance, I am planning to polish my '08 Edge (Rotary polisher) and get some of the swirls out of it. I'll document it for you guys.

[cal3thousand]

Canuck has a lot of great advice, but I wanted to add some clarity to how long you have to wait to wax or seal you paint. If it's factory paint(which I assume it is), go ahead and put any wax or sealant you want on it when you pick it up from the dealer. The OEM's paint process is completely different from that of a body shop(bake cycles are at a higher temp and more complete). By the time the dealer gets the car, the paint is fully cured.

 

If you had paint work done at body shop, ask them how many days they recommend before waxing or sealing. It will differ by paint manufacture but most will tell you 30+ days and that should suffice, unless temperatures are very cold. If it's very hot, say over 85 degrees and sunny, most paints will be cured within a week. Also, all OEM and aftermarket clear coats are solvent based, as are the primers and sealers. In the collision repair market, ONLY the base coat(or color coat, if you prefer) is "water-based", and only in parts of California and some states in the Northeast. That "water-based" base coat has a few coats of solvent base primer and or sealer underneath it and 2-3 coats of solvent based clear coat on top. The vast majority of cars painted in U.S. body shops are painted with all solvent based paints.

 

Also, I'll throw in my 2 cents on waxes/sealants. Go with a trusted name that actually has some R&D behind their products, not just marketing. I prefer 3M. They also own Meguiar's lock, stock, and barrel; although 3M dominates the professional(body shop) market and Meguiar's is more for the mass-market, do it yourselfer. 3M spent $1.4 billion on R&D as a company last year, which is probably more than the combined sales of all the other companies mentioned on these discussion boards. There is a reason for that, they simply make great products, whether it's masking tape, the reflective material on all the road signs, or the latest filling material that your dentist put in. IMO, 3M makes the best compounds, polishes, paint sealants, and fine grade abrasives for wet sanding. There 3000 grit Trizact DA sand paper is amazing, as is their Ultrafine polish and Performance Finish paint sealant.

 

Thanks for the insight. (to all the pro detailers)

 

I will buy any 3M product if they make a version and won't touch the competition. Hands down, the best adhesives. Good to know that they own Meguiar's too!

[richy]

There are now 3 classifications of paint protection: Sealant, Waxes and Coatings. I copied this post from a similar question in this same section. Pls forgive my laziness in not re-typing it:

 

I'll suggest a few things for you. All of these items are available at Autogeek. I have a funeral home as a customer (I do detailing on the side) and I put a double coat of Duragloss followed by Collinite wax. The Colli is a synthetic wax and is incredible. You need to let the DG cure for 12 hours prior to sealing it.

http://www.autogeek....nce-polish.html

http://www.autogeek....or-wax-845.html

That combo is hard to beat. It should last you a year with proper wash techniques (not using Dish soap, etc)

 

Here is another alternative. These 2 products are cutting edge and will give you protection measured in years. The CQuartz is easier to use IMO but both have advantages/disadvantages. You can use them on paint, chrome, ext trim and glass!

http://www.autogeek....quartz-kit.html

http://www.autogeek....-opti-coat.html

If you go this route, you will be blown away by how they react to dirt and water. Live2Detail forum and Autogeek's forum has a lot of info on all these products I mentioned.

[Edgieguy]

Hey Richy,

Thanks for the links. I'm really curious to try that cquartz. is there anyway to mess that up ?

[JOEHIO]

Found a new product today on the market, Nano Diamond Shield (WWW.NANODIAMONDSHIELD.COM). Checked the website, was impressed with what I saw, went back and bought it. Had recently done a complete claybar/waxing, so I just went over the car with Mothewrs FX, then applied this stuff, the car looks unreal. It's supposed to give 12 months protection, got it at PepBoys for $29.99. Will update on this in a few months.

Edited April 12, 2011 by JOEHIO

[richy]

Hey Richy,

Thanks for the links. I'm really curious to try that cquartz. is there anyway to mess that up ?

 

 

Yes and no. If you follow the directions on the website, you will be fine. The most important thing is that the paint be squeaky clean. Do not use a glaze underneath or any sealant. Just put it on top of polished paint.

[bender]

I like meguairs m105 followed by m205 then by synthetic 21 and a nice carnuba, like cg pete's 53.

[JOEHIO]

Had it out in the rain today. Never saw beading action like this, and when driving home, the water just ran right off, pulled in the garage, and it still looks clean. :happy feet:

Edited April 12, 2011 by JOEHIO

[richy]

Had it out in the rain today. Never saw beading action like this, and when driving home, the water just ran right off, pulled in the garage, and it still looks clean. :happy feet:

 

Joe, that sounds like an interesting product. I read up on it. It gets activated by the sun after washing and whatnot. That is very different than the nano coating CQuartz or Opti Coat. I'm glad it's working for you. Sure sounds a lot easier than the methods of applying either CQ or OC, that's for sure.

[Tom D]

You all have made a beliver out of my. This weekend I decided to detail my wifes 2005 Mustang convertable. I first washed it and towed it dry. I then went over it with a clay bar, I could not believe my eyes or fingers it looked so clean and was smoother that a baby's butt. Then I sealed it with Nu Finish. My next step is to wax it in a couple of days. Thanks for all the great information. :shades:

 

My new EDGE is next, I have had it 3 weeks, I would have detaile it by now but when I picked it up there was a scratch on the rear bumper that was to deep to buff out. The dealer had to paint the bumper so I guess I need to let that paint cure.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Tom D