Oil...anyone using 5W30 rather than 5W20?

[Goldy]

Just purchased an '09 Edge AWD Limited. I was curious if anyone is using synthetic 5W30 rather than 5W20. To me, the 5W20 seems quite thin (kinda watery), and I would think the 5W30 would offer better protection (maybe cost a bit on milage, but engine protection is more important to me).

 

Thx.

 

BTW - I've used Mobile 1 5W30 on many of my other cars, and am a believer that it makes a difference. I traded a '96 Explorer (did the cash for clunker thing) w/ 240,000 miles on the new Edge. The Explorer's engine (5.0 L) was actually in what I would say excellent condition; didn;'t burn any oil, and used Mobil 1 5W30 in it since new (I was the original owner). (Actually, the Explorer ran well, but the body/interior was beginning to show its age, and some things were starting to fail. After 14 years, the AC just went, the water pump and maybe the radiator started to leak, brakes needed to be replaced, and not certain if something major like the tranny was going to south soon...plus the cash for clunker thing made this a no brainer for me.) When the dealership 'destroyed' the engine (drained the crankcase, filled w/ water and something they called 'liquid glass' and then ran it), they said the engine ran for almost 2 minutes before it quit; they said most engines died literally seconds after running w/ the water/liquid glass. I think the continual use of the synthetic oil may have been the reason.

[computerguy]

I was going to use Royal Purple 5w30, but after posting the question here a few months back, I decided to stay with the 5w20. I emailed Royal Purple and they said 5w20 was fine and they had never heard of an engine failing due to its use.

[akirby]

Stick with 5W-20. It's fine and you won't risk a denied warranty claim.

[kdd01]

why would you not run what your owners manual says ?

[Goldy]

why would you not run what your owners manual says ?

I run Mobil 1 5W30 in both my Cobras ('99 and '03), and both run flawlessly. For the '03, owner's manual 'recommends' using 5W20, but states nothing about voiding a warranty should 5W30 be used. With as hot as the '03 gets (its supercharged, and it gets awfully hot), I feel better about running something a bit thicker...I believe it offers more of a safety blanket w/ regard to protection. Keep in mind it's a thin oil film which actually provides protection...While it may be ok for very conservative operation, I am concerned that the 5W20 may be too thin optimal engine protection (not sure how much of the film is left on engine parts after it's sheared).

 

Years ago, I called SVT (Ford SVT) and asked them about using 5W30 in the '03...all they would say is that Ford 'recommends' the 5W20, but would not say that the 5W30 would cause problems/void the warranty (I asked specifically).

 

The engine in my (or I should say my wife's) '09 Edge seems to get pretty hot...seems to emit more heat after running than my '99 Cobra. I'm not sure if Ford uses the 5W20 to get better milage numbers...In my way of thinking, I couldn't imagine 5W30 causing damage...but I truly don't know.

 

Anyway, I was just curious if anyone has used the 5W30.

 

Thx.

[bbf2530]

I run Mobil 1 5W30 in both my Cobras ('99 and '03), and both run flawlessly. For the '03, owner's manual 'recommends' using 5W20, but states nothing about voiding a warranty should 5W30 be used. With as hot as the '03 gets (its supercharged, and it gets awfully hot), I feel better about running something a bit thicker...I believe it offers more of a safety blanket w/ regard to protection. Keep in mind it's a thin oil film which actually provides protection...While it may be ok for very conservative operation, I am concerned that the 5W20 may be too thin optimal engine protection (not sure how much of the film is left on engine parts after it's sheared).

 

Years ago, I called SVT (Ford SVT) and asked them about using 5W30 in the '03...all they would say is that Ford 'recommends' the 5W20, but would not say that the 5W30 would cause problems/void the warranty (I asked specifically).

 

The engine in my (or I should say my wife's) '09 Edge seems to get pretty hot...seems to emit more heat after running than my '99 Cobra. I'm not sure if Ford uses the 5W20 to get better milage numbers...In my way of thinking, I couldn't imagine 5W30 causing damage...but I truly don't know.

 

Anyway, I was just curious if anyone has used the 5W30.

 

Thx.

 

Hi Goldie. :D I believe that the problem here is we need to understand that there are very few things that can "Void a Warranty". But a lot of things that can lead to "denial of a Warranty claim". A difference in semantics, but a very large difference. From the Owners Manual (copied and pasted with the pertinent section highlighted in red):

 

Use SAE 5W-20 engine oil

Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline Engines” by the American

Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms

to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel

economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and

Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese

automobile manufacturers.

To protect your engine’s warranty use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an

equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C930-A.

SAE 5W-20 oil provides optimum fuel economy and durability

performance meeting all requirements for your vehicle’s engine.

Do not use supplemental engine oil additives, cleaners or other engine

treatments. They are unnecessary and could lead to engine damage that

is not covered by Ford warranty.

Change your engine oil and filter according to the appropriate schedule

listed in scheduled maintenance information.

Ford production and aftermarket (Motorcraft) oil filters are designed for

added engine protection and long life. If a replacement oil filter is used

that does not meet Ford material and design specifications, start-up

engine noises or knock may be experienced.

It is recommended you use the appropriate Motorcraft oil filter (or

another brand meeting Ford specifications) for your engine application.

 

As you can see, it specifically states "To protect your engine’s warranty use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C930-A. SAE 5W-20 oil provides optimum fuel economy and durability performance meeting all requirements for your vehicle’s engine". That is all it needs to say. Same case with the "oil additives". Using them does not "void the Warranty", but "could lead to engine damage that is not covered by Ford warranty".

 

The Owners Manual will rarely to never specifically state that not following any particular "Recommended " maintenance will "Void your Warranty". However, not following maintenance recommendations can lead to denial of a Warranty claim. It is as simple as that.

 

For example, nowhere in the Owners Manual does it state, "If you do not change your oil for 20,000 miles at a time, it will 'Void your Warranty'." However, we all know that if you do not change your oil for 20,000 miles at a time and have major engine trouble due (or even vaguely linked) to oil related causes, it is very likely that your Warranty Claim will be denied. Filthy oil and no proof of oil changes = Denial of an engine oil related Warranty Claim. Not "voiding the Warranty", but "denial of the Warranty claim". A big difference between the two terms.

 

Bottom line is that not following recommended maintenance can lead to denial of a Warranty claim (which is much different than "Voiding a Warranty"). And Ford recommends 5W-20 (with particular SAE specs). Therefore using a different spec/weight oil "may" lead to denial of a Warranty claim (again, different than a "Voided Warranty"). Granted I will agree that this will rarely happen, as oil related failures are rare (other than due to neglecting the oil). And oil spec/weight related failures would be even rarer (i.e using 5W-30 would not likely ever cause a problem in the real world). But it is possible and you open yourself up to the possibility if you use it.

 

So the safest thing to do to protect coverage on oil/engine related Warranty claims is to perform regular oil/filter changes as per the Maintenance Schedule, and use the recommended oil (5W-20).

 

Everyone is free to do otherwise (it's a free country), but we do open ourselves up to possible Warranty problems.

 

Hope this clears up any confusion.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited August 31, 2009 by bbf2530

[hydro]

I run Mobil 1 5W30 in both my Cobras ('99 and '03), and both run flawlessly. For the '03, owner's manual 'recommends' using 5W20, but states nothing about voiding a warranty should 5W30 be used. With as hot as the '03 gets (its supercharged, and it gets awfully hot), I feel better about running something a bit thicker...I believe it offers more of a safety blanket w/ regard to protection. Keep in mind it's a thin oil film which actually provides protection...While it may be ok for very conservative operation, I am concerned that the 5W20 may be too thin optimal engine protection (not sure how much of the film is left on engine parts after it's sheared).

 

Years ago, I called SVT (Ford SVT) and asked them about using 5W30 in the '03...all they would say is that Ford 'recommends' the 5W20, but would not say that the 5W30 would cause problems/void the warranty (I asked specifically).

 

The engine in my (or I should say my wife's) '09 Edge seems to get pretty hot...seems to emit more heat after running than my '99 Cobra. I'm not sure if Ford uses the 5W20 to get better milage numbers...In my way of thinking, I couldn't imagine 5W30 causing damage...but I truly don't know.

 

Anyway, I was just curious if anyone has used the 5W30.

 

Thx.

 

Food for thought.

We run 0W-20 in our drag race engine. We want the oil thin as possible to make the most horsepower. We've had zero engines failures due to lack lubrication. So if a 1,100 hp engine can handle 0w I totally trust 5-20 in my Edge.

[Grey]

Our engines are designed for 5W20. Don't confuse oil pressure for lubrication.

 

Flow = lubrication.

 

If you are pulling a large trailer, racing for long periods (several hours) or (for some other reason) running your engine at 300+ degrees (instead of the 212 it is designed for) you might want a 5W30.

 

Oil flow also affects engine cooling. All carefully coordinated.

 

For 99+% of us, 5W20 or even 0W20 is all we will ever need.

[Goldy]

Our engines are designed for 5W20. Don't confuse oil pressure for lubrication.

 

Flow = lubrication.

 

If you are pulling a large trailer, racing for long periods (several hours) or (for some other reason) running your engine at 300+ degrees (instead of the 212 it is designed for) you might want a 5W30.

 

Oil flow also affects engine cooling. All carefully coordinated.

 

For 99+% of us, 5W20 or even 0W20 is all we will ever need.

Thx all for the feedback. Looks like 5W20 is the choice among most here in the Edge forum. If interested, checkout this link...talks about thiner vs. thicker oils.

 

http://www.noria.com/learning_center/categ...oup=Maintenance

 

Howard

[fordman25]

Thx all for the feedback. Looks like 5W20 is the choice among most here in the Edge forum. If interested, checkout this link...talks about thiner vs. thicker oils.

 

http://www.noria.com/learning_center/categ...oup=Maintenance

 

Howard

 

Until I read this forum, I've never even heard of 5W20. I've seen 5W30 a lot, but we use 10W30 on everything but our diesel motors. I don't have an Edge yet, but I learned a lot about what to use when/if I get one.

With 5W oil, would the engine oil leak or burn oil faster when the car gets high mileage such as past the 100,000 mile range being that thin?

[akirby]

Until I read this forum, I've never even heard of 5W20. I've seen 5W30 a lot, but we use 10W30 on everything but our diesel motors. I don't have an Edge yet, but I learned a lot about what to use when/if I get one.

With 5W oil, would the engine oil leak or burn oil faster when the car gets high mileage such as past the 100,000 mile range being that thin?

 

Ford switched to 5W-20 back around 2004. It's a synthetic blend. That's what most Ford engines are designed to use - no reason to change it.

[Waldo]

Ford switched to 5W20 for the fuel economy benefit. They did some testing using the engines that were already designed to run on 5W30, found there was no significant change in wear characteristics, so decided to recommend it on all engines. As the owner's guide says, 5W20 is the "optimal" oil for fuel economy and durability. It's not the best for either one, but it's a good compromise.

 

Personally I use 5W30 Mobil 1 because Costco doesn't sell it in 5W20.

[Grey]

Common misunderstandings about oil corrected:

 

Motor oil for todays engines are formulated to operate at 212 degrees. Ford engineers want an oil with a cSt value between 8.5 and 9 at operating temperatures. Tolerences, oil passages, oil pumps, cooling systems, etc. are set up for this cSt value.

 

It is more correct to say that oil thickens as it cools. 10W thickens more than 5W or 0W at ambient temperatures.

 

As much as 90% of engine wear occurs at cold start. Thinner is better. The colder your starts, them more you need 0W20 oil or a full synthetic 5W20.

 

No 10W30 oil I can find meets the spec for our vehicles.

 

It is like rocket surgery!

[cteichroeb]

I have an 09 Edge Limited with 1000 miles on it. I just changed the oil to 5w30 Full Synthetic. I couldn't find 5W20 where I live although ocassionly shows up and then soon disappears. I have been running 5w30 synthetic on my 2001 F150 since it's first oil change and now have 240,000 with no problems at all.

 

CAFE has specified 20 weight oils to try and slightly improve fuel efficiency. I see no reason why 5w30 cannot be used instead of 5w20. According to my local Ford dealer they have no concerns about its use even for warranty purposes. They "recommend" 5W20 however running 5w30 Mobile 1 synthetic is not going to void my warranty.

 

cheers,

 

Cam in Canada

[Grey]

A few of you want to know what the Ford engineers require for their engines (based on experience with millions of engines) - others choose to make judgements based on experience with a few engines at best.

 

CAFE certainly had an affect on the design specification for the 5W20 oil, but once the specification was set, the balance of the engine, cooling system, cam timing mechanisims, etc. systems were designed around the 5W20 oil spec. Most importantly is the requirement that the oil exhibit a cSt value between 8.5 and 9 at operating temperatures. Mobile 1 5W30 does not meet the Ford specification and has a cSt value of 11.3 at operating temperature.

 

Customer: "I have a ticking noise in my engine".

Sevice Manager: "What oil are you using?"

Customer: "Mobile 1 5W30 Synthetic"

Service Manager: "Sorry, but this issue will be customer pay since you are not using oil that meets the Ford specification"

 

I've seen the conversation happen. But, do whatever you want, its only an issue if there is a problem.

[akirby]

A few of you want to know what the Ford engineers require for their engines (based on experience with millions of engines) - others choose to make judgements based on experience with a few engines at best.

 

CAFE certainly had an affect on the design specification for the 5W20 oil, but once the specification was set, the balance of the engine, cooling system, cam timing mechanisims, etc. systems were designed around the 5W20 oil spec. Most importantly is the requirement that the oil exhibit a cSt value between 8.5 and 9 at operating temperatures. Mobile 1 5W30 does not meet the Ford specification and has a cSt value of 11.3 at operating temperature.

 

Customer: "I have a ticking noise in my engine".

Sevice Manager: "What oil are you using?"

Customer: "Mobile 1 5W30 Synthetic"

Service Manager: "Sorry, but this issue will be customer pay since you are not using oil that meets the Ford specification"

 

I've seen the conversation happen. But, do whatever you want, its only an issue if there is a problem.

 

How many more times do you think you'll have to repeat this? I'm guessing 20 - 25.

[Grey]

akirby, you are right. I'm about to give up. Chances are there won't be a problem, but look at the guy with the blown engine at 65,000 miles and is upset that Ford won't foot the bill. The CAFE issue must permit people to believe the oil specification is pretty arbitrary. It is not.

 

When using the wrong specified oil becomes an issue, customers want to excuse their responsibility by throwing it off on the oil change guy down the street, their uncle (who never had a problem with XYZ oil), etc. We try to educate with knowledge that goes beyond individual experience, but some just don't want to hear it. Oh well!

 

Have a great day - we are off in the FFH to go to a retiree breakfast and trade old war (service drive) stories.

[MacLeod]

A few of you want to know what the Ford engineers require for their engines (based on experience with millions of engines) - others choose to make judgements based on experience with a few engines at best.

 

Sorry for bringing an old thread back to life but I found this forum by searching around about this very same question. I too was playing around with what oil to use, Motorcraft versus Mobil 1, 5w20 versus 5w30 and so on. This one line above slapped me back into reality especially since I opted for the extended, 75,000 mile warranty. 5w20 Motorcraft it will be for me. :D

 

However I dont think I could sleep at night doing 7,500 mile oil change intervals so Ill do them at 3,750 for a little more peace of mind.

[akirby]

Sorry for bringing an old thread back to life but I found this forum by searching around about this very same question. I too was playing around with what oil to use, Motorcraft versus Mobil 1, 5w20 versus 5w30 and so on. This one line above slapped me back into reality especially since I opted for the extended, 75,000 mile warranty. 5w20 Motorcraft it will be for me. :D

 

However I dont think I could sleep at night doing 7,500 mile oil change intervals so Ill do them at 3,750 for a little more peace of mind.

 

If you're really concerned about it - take an oil sample at 3750 and have it tested. They'll tell you for sure whether it needs to be changed or not. Unless you're doing extreme driving 7500 should be just fine.

[Tribby2001]

[...]

Ford engineers want an oil with a cSt value between 8.5 and 9 at operating temperatures. Tolerences, oil passages, oil pumps, cooling systems, etc. are set up for this cSt value.

 

It is more correct to say that oil thickens as it cools. 10W thickens more than 5W or 0W at ambient temperatures.

 

As much as 90% of engine wear occurs at cold start. Thinner is better. The colder your starts, them more you need 0W20 oil or a full synthetic 5W20.

[...]

 

Is there agreement that any SAE 0W-20 oil that meets the Ford WSS-M2C930-A specification can be used in our Edge without warranty issues?

 

I need to know since where I live the winters can be brutally frigid.

[bbf2530]

Is there agreement that any SAE 0W-20 oil that meets the Ford WSS-M2C930-A specification can be used in our Edge without warranty issues?

 

I need to know since where I live the winters can be brutally frigid.

 

Hi Tribby. :D The exact wording of the Owners Manual (copied and pasted from the 2008 version) states:

 

To protect your engine’s warranty use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an

equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C930-A.

SAE 5W-20 oil provides optimum fuel economy and durability

performance meeting all requirements for your vehicle’s engine.

 

To me, that means exactly what it says. To protect the engine Warranty, use a 5W-20 which meets the WSS-M2C930-A spec. To me that means 5W-20 only. Not 0W-20. Not 5W-30, etc etc.. Now, others may have different opinions, even others who's opinion I truly respect concerning many other subjects and things in general.

 

However, the Owners Manual (and Warranty agreement) is the final word, at least as far as I am concerned. And as far as Ford is concerned, that wording clearly leaves open the possibility of a Warranty claims denial if another viscosity oil is used.

 

Whatever you decide to do, good luck. :beerchug:

Edited March 24, 2010 by bbf2530

[Tribby2001]

OK, thanks for the reply. It's just as well as my other Ford spec's the same 5W-20 oil and sports the same verbage in the manual.

[Grey]

Is there agreement that any SAE 0W-20 oil that meets the Ford WSS-M2C930-A specification can be used in our Edge without warranty issues?

 

I need to know since where I live the winters can be brutally frigid.

 

If you can find an 0w20 that meets the Ford specification (M2C930) it will be OK to use. However, I don't see it on the Mobile 1 site any longer. Perhaps discontinued?

 

Alternatively, Ford has a full synthetic 5w20 that will give you better low temperature protection (it thickens slightly les when cool) than the semi-synthetic 5w20. That is what is recommended by Ford for extreme cold climates.

[L1TECH]

It's funny that the main reason Ford recommends 5w20 oil isn't listed here at all. It's called VCT or Variable Cam Timing. I won't go into the whole concept of VCT but basically the cam timing is controlled by 2 solenoids that control the flow of oil to the VCT assembly. Due to the nature of this system and it's ability to react very fast oil control has to be within a very tight specification and using the wrong weight of oil can and will cause the system to not function properly. I just had a customer in the shop the other day that had just gotten his oil changed and now the vehicle ran rough and the check engine light was on. Sure enough it was a VCT problem. Not only was the wrong weight of oil in the engine but the oil filter wasn't a Motorcraft filter...yes it can make a difference. Changed the oil,put on the correct filter and problem solved.

 

The mfg recommends things for a reason and it would be in everyones best interest to follow those recomendations......especially if they are concerned about longevity and proper operation of their vehicle.

[akirby]

I just don't understand why people think the mfr recommended oil and filter are so bad or that other brands are so much better that they need to change. Especially when it's a synthetic blend already.