Emission Recall 24E10

[Chipster]

This seems to be focused on 2016 3.5 equipped Edges but I am not sure about that. I am wondering if this so called software "fix" will degrade performance and or long term drivability? I expect it's too early for anyone here to have had the recall performed, but when you do (if you do) please respond to this thread with any changes you might notice with your Edge. Seems odd that it only seems to be targeting the 2016 model year and that if there were an emission issue that it would only be known about now?  

[Haz]

The original Forum announcement with Dealer Bulletin details...

 

Emission Recall 24E10 - Certain 2015-2018 Edge with 3.5L Engine - Reprogram Powertrain Control Module (PCM)

 

 

38 minutes ago, Chipster said:

Seems odd that it only seems to be targeting the 2016 model year and that if there were an emission issue that it would only be known about now?  

 

The Owner Letter you received mentions only "2016" because that's the Model Year of your Edge.

 

 

 

I expect the "over time" revelation of the problem is why 2015-2018 Edges are now subject to the Recall.

 

I do look forward to your personal assessment of the updated PCM software's affect upon your Edge's drivability! 

 

Good luck!

 

[Cobra4fun]

 

Have a 2018 Ford Edge Titanium with the 3.5L in our family fleet and received the same recall. 
 

Very interested to see if this could have ruined our catalytic converters as our check engine light went on and it could only be resolved with a new Front bank catalytic converter.  Shop said both converters were bad and not passing the before and after temperature test, but only replaced the front one as that was the bank the code was triggering.  
 

This was after trying to replace both O2 sensors on that bank.  

Edited December 2 by Cobra4fun

[Chipster]

17 hours ago, Cobra4fun said:

 

Have a 2018 Ford Edge Titanium with the 3.5L in our family fleet and received the same recall. 
 

interested to see if this could have ruined our catalytic converters as our check engine light went on and it could only be resolved with a new Front bank catalytic converter.  Shop said both converters were bad and not passing the before and after temperature test, but I only replaced the front one as that was the bank the code was triggering.  
 

This was after trying to replace both O2 sensors on that bank.  

That is a good question! What is your average daily MPG? Mine is a little over 24 MPG in around town driving and a little bit better doing over the open road driving. I wish I had an idea as to what the end result will be after the recall work in terms of drivability, and performance. 

Edited November 19 by Chipster

[JustTori]

The recall was also inclusive of my 2018 Ford Edge, unsure what other years it extends to. My initial response was also to question the effect this "fix" would have on my performance. Interested to hear further feedback...

[dabangsta]

I remember the questions on how a PCM update could affect coolant intrusion on the 1.5 in the Escape, and many didn't get it done. Fast forward to them getting coolant intrusion and not being eligible for the one time block replacement because they didn't get the PCM update (it was speculated that they were going to lower the boost and other things). I guess that SSM had more details, that it kept the electric coolant pump going longer after shut down, but still I made sure I got it done. I guess this one and caring if emissions output is worse than it should be matters.

[Chipster]

3 hours ago, dabangsta said:

... I guess this one and caring if emissions output is worse than it should be matters.

 I am a bit suspicious on how Ford got away with (I assume) being out of allowable tailpipe emissions for so long before doing anything about it. I would have thought this forum would have been full of people that live in states that require emissions check complaining as to their vehicle failing that test. That didn't happen, right? What changed? 

[dabangsta]

In my state OBD-II (1996 and newer) is plugged in and uses onboard diagnostics for pass/fail. Only older vehicles are put on a dyno and tailpipe sniffed. If it isn't throwing a code, and isn't showing too many tests not completed, then it passes. Legend has it that CA has sniffers along roads and can fail cars? I don't know if I believe that or not.

[Jaime MUN]

2015 Ford Edge here.

 

Same recall notice received! I could not pass emissions and I had no choice but to replace both cats and sensors, in order to pass. Exactly one week after passing emissions, I received a recall notice in the mail. I was wondering if it was only me but now I'm seeing there are many other owners with the same issue. I paid $2,500 to have the issue repaired, because I had not choice as I couldn't renew my plate sticker without first passing emission. I call Ford's customer care department and the customer service rep informs me there is no reimbursement for this repair!!! She goes on to tell me that Ford will usually allow reimbursement in these cases but for some reason not on this particular recall- she tells me she's surprised! So I asked to escalate my call and submit it as a complaint. I'm now waiting to hear back from someone else. I'm ready to bring in the media, especially after learning Ford just got hit with the second most disgust penalty last week, for their terrible recall practices. If you guys are going to the same, start calling and getting you cases heard. We spend way too much money on these vehicles and Ford basically doesn't give a damn!

[kmallen]

On 11/27/2024 at 9:59 AM, Jaime MUN said:

2015 Ford Edge here.

 

Same recall notice received! I could not pass emissions and I had no choice but to replace both cats and sensors, in order to pass. Exactly one week after passing emissions, I received a recall notice in the mail. I was wondering if it was only me but now I'm seeing there are many other owners with the same issue. I paid $2,500 to have the issue repaired, because I had not choice as I couldn't renew my plate sticker without first passing emission. I call Ford's customer care department and the customer service rep informs me there is no reimbursement for this repair!!! She goes on to tell me that Ford will usually allow reimbursement in these cases but for some reason not on this particular recall- she tells me she's surprised! So I asked to escalate my call and submit it as a complaint. I'm now waiting to hear back from someone else. I'm ready to bring in the media, especially after learning Ford just got hit with the second most disgust penalty last week, for their terrible recall practices. If you guys are going to the same, start calling and getting you cases heard. We spend way too much money on these vehicles and Ford basically doesn't give a damn!

I have 2015 Edge. Sitting at dealership getting the recall serviced.  My engine light is on; error is basically catalytic converter.  Service guy states the recall should not have anything to do with my engine light error.  But everything I have found researching states it could make it fail over time.   Car has 195k miles on it; I would say that qualifies as 'over time'.  Avg mph 24.  I will respond once I hear back from service dept.  It can't be a coincidence the catalytic converter are going bad on so many and the recall us directly related to emissions.  

[Cobra4fun]

On 11/27/2024 at 8:59 AM, Jaime MUN said:

2015 Ford Edge here.

 

Same recall notice received! I could not pass emissions and I had no choice but to replace both cats and sensors, in order to pass. Exactly one week after passing emissions, I received a recall notice in the mail. I was wondering if it was only me but now I'm seeing there are many other owners with the same issue. I paid $2,500 to have the issue repaired, because I had not choice as I couldn't renew my plate sticker without first passing emission. I call Ford's customer care department and the customer service rep informs me there is no reimbursement for this repair!!! She goes on to tell me that Ford will usually allow reimbursement in these cases but for some reason not on this particular recall- she tells me she's surprised! So I asked to escalate my call and submit it as a complaint. I'm now waiting to hear back from someone else. I'm ready to bring in the media, especially after learning Ford just got hit with the second most disgust penalty last week, for their terrible recall practices. If you guys are going to the same, start calling and getting you cases heard. We spend way too much money on these vehicles and Ford basically doesn't give a damn!

 

I was wondering why our Catalytic converters are failing in our Edges at relatively low mileages.  In my case 139K miles!!!!  
 

Now I think we know why after this recall!  PCM was likely over richening the fuel to air ratio and damaging the converters over time and leading to higher emissions out the tailpipes.  

 

$2500 is a lot of money but if you paid that to replace both catalytic converters and O2 sensors that was fairly inexpensive for that repair.  I was quoted over $3500 for replacing both Catalytic converters in our 2018 Edge with a 3.5L.  

Regardless, FORD screwed up here with the PCM programming and that resulted in the higher emissions and irreversible damage to the catalytic converters.  FORD should be covering the converter replacements too.  Come on FORD!!!

 

[Cobra4fun]

3 hours ago, kmallen said:

My engine light is on; error is basically catalytic converter.  Service guy states the recall should not have anything to do with my engine light error.  But everything I have found researching states it could make it fail over time.   Car has 195k miles on it; I would say that qualifies as 'over time'. 

Yep!!!  Please keep us posted on this!  Please also keep on them and make them fix the issue.  What the service guy said sounds completely false. 

 

The fact that the PCM needs to be reprogrammed to lower the emissions means that there are times when too many pollutants are being generated that overwhelms the catalytic converters and they are getting prematurely contaminated and eventually failing.  They are prematurely failing due to the PCM programming settings the factory messed up from the get go. 

 

IF they refuse to completely fix the issue with replacing new CATs, at a minimum get the service manager to put his words all in writing with his name on the service record.  Tell him/her you want them to document this recall "has absolutely no impact on that Engine Light (Should be a P0420 or P0430) on the Catalytic Converters premature degrading/failing.   I bet he will refuse to do it, but then say if he won't put it in writing, you'd like your converters replaced since the PCM controls the pollutants that go to the catalytic converters and need to be burned off.   

 

 

 

   

Edited December 2 by Cobra4fun

[Chipster]

This recall certainly begs the question of how many have, or will have, to have their cats. replaced as a result of this issue?

[Cobra4fun]

Yep!  The Cats will definitely be affected.  
 

“No actual cats were harmed in the production of this post”

[Incorectusername]

I had this recall done last week and now my Edge is throwing codes, the next morning my car threw a traction control error and my dash lit up and the traction control dis-engaged twice after this update. The first time I slid across the parking lot because it freaked out. I now as of yesterday have a wrench light saying "

Powertrain Fault

Illuminates when the system has detected a powertrain or an all-wheel drive fault. Contact an authorized dealer as soon as possible."   I took it back to ford and they could not pull any codes until it was started, They now get a P166A code, For restraint module. They say this code is saying there is a fault in my fuel pump circuit...ok. I don't see how this isn't related to the update, but they don't think it is. If they updated the PCM and now my PCM is freaking out starting the following day, I would say that's related. They could not clear the light but I disconnected the battery for 5 min and its gone, for now...   I also see other vehicles with recent PCM updates doing similar things as mine      I would say hold off on this update unless you need it. Let them figure out the bugs first. Also as a side note, this recall is not listed on transport Canada recall list or even on Fords website with a vin search or model search. Yet I got the letter and they did the update. I have a 3.5L V6 Edge - 2016.

 

Edited December 10 by Incorectusername

[Cobra4fun]

Wow. This isn’t starting off well! 

[Haz]

 

 

 

[Chipster]

22 hours ago, Incorectusername said:

I had this recall done last week and now my Edge is throwing codes, the next morning my car threw a traction control error and my dash lit up and the traction control dis-engaged twice after this update. The first time I slid across the parking lot because it freaked out. I now as of yesterday have a wrench light saying "

Powertrain Fault

Illuminates when the system has detected a powertrain or an all-wheel drive fault. Contact an authorized dealer as soon as possible."   I took it back to ford and they could not pull any codes until it was started, They now get a P166A code, For restraint module. They say this code is saying there is a fault in my fuel pump circuit...ok. I don't see how this isn't related to the update, but they don't think it is. If they updated the PCM and now my PCM is freaking out starting the following day, I would say that's related. They could not clear the light but I disconnected the battery for 5 min and its gone, for now... I also have a random beep that I've never hear before that came along with the wrench light, I was able to record it.  https://recorder.google.com/1db17c8b-b4a5-403c-9ed0-8ec72162f0a2   I also see other vehicles with recent PCM updates doing similar things as mine      I would say hold off on this update unless you need it. Let them figure out the bugs first. Also as a side note, this recall is not listed on transport Canada recall list or even on Fords website with a vin search or model search. Yet I got the letter and they did the update. I have a 3.5L V6 Edge - 2016.

 

Thanks for your reply, but sorry to see the issues are experiencing. Make sure you keep us posted on what happens next. Anybody else having issues after this recall reprogramming?

[Incorectusername]

Small Update, After those issues I have a new one, The wrench Icon leads to a code P166A, The new info is apparently that trails to a  fuel pump IES circuit. (inductive energy storage) code. Why fuel pump stuff is nested under Restraint module is beyond me.

But because of this my fuel pump Cricut is staying open when the car is off and my battery dies every night now. Go ME!

 

Nothing else to report, Ford has no got back to me as of yet but we will see what happens. I left them a voicemail today.

[Chipster]

Thanks!

[Dudester]

I'd like to see a little more detail on what they are trying to actually fix. I'd also like to know what conditions they are not operating correctly at? Are the cats too small to begin with? One would think whatever the conditions are the fuel trim values would be keeping the car at the correct or needed value. Hard to believe this is now 2024 and they screwed this up. Its not like they just started programming these yesterday. Did the instructions fall out of the computer software writing manuals? Will they cover the cats if they are not yet but almost destroyed when the recall is performed. Seems like they should be doing the recall and replacing the cats at the same time for any damage already done.

Edited Thursday at 03:45 PM by Dudester

[Cobra4fun]

42 minutes ago, Dudester said:

I'd like to see a little more detail on what they are trying to actually fix. I'd also like to know what conditions they are not operating correctly at? Are the cats too small to begin with? One would think whatever the conditions are the fuel trim values would be keeping the car at the correct or needed value. Hard to believe this is now 2024 and they screwed this up. Its not like they just started programming these yesterday. Did the instructions fall out of the computer software writing manuals? Will they cover the cats if they are not yet but almost destroyed when the recall is performed. Seems like they should be doing the recall and replacing the cats at the same time for any damage already done.

Agreed.  The one thing about these V6 3.5 engines i notice is the CATs are built into the exhaust manifolds which means they are super close to the start of the exhaust coming out of the engine.  Not certain but my engineering background means any unburied fuel from a rich condition and carbon is hitting and dumping directly into the CATs.  Most exhaust systems I’ve seen in other vehicles the CATs are more downstream of the engine.  So maybe this means these CATs and both upstream and downstream Oxygen sensors are more sensitive to slight out of range or rich air/fuel trim mixtures.  This layout and setup may mean that it’s more challenging and important for the engine computer to be configured correctly to deal with varying conditions. 
 

All this means is that if the system is out of wack slightly on the mappings then the emissions and gases being sent to the CATs will tax it and start coating the precious metals inside the CATs and carbon buildup will occur inside the CATs. Both bad for the CATs.

Edited Thursday at 04:27 PM by Cobra4fun

[Chipster]

3 hours ago, Cobra4fun said:

...All this means is that if the system is out of wack slightly on the mappings then the emissions and gases being sent to the CATs will tax it and start coating the precious metals inside the CATs and carbon buildup will occur inside the CATs. Both bad for the CATs.

This begs the question of how many owners unaware of this issue have had to replace their CAT's on their dime? Additionally, just how far out of Fed. or State emissions spec. is it in this "as manufactured"state? If this is in fact a problem why haven't we seen owners complain about failed emissions testing in years past?