TO ALL THE HIR & HID HEADLIGHT EXPERTS!!! THOUGHTS???

[dereck]

Look at this EBAY item for LED headlight bulbs;

 

Link:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LED-9005-Hi...bayphotohosting

 

or EBAY Item number: 270359604817

 

Anyone see them in action???

Any thoughts???

Think this is a rip off or a first look at new technologies coming???

[Lex Talionis]

pretty interesting.

 

it seems like a natural next extension of the LED movement. kind of surprised I have not seen them before. I do not want to get involved in a debate of your merit as compared to HID as I am not knowledgeable enough but what I would do is I would consider buying these just for my high beams. the reason is I truly HATE the incandescent pee yellow of my high beams, love my HID low beams, but did not want to pop for a second set if HID for my high beams as I never use them and did not want the additional cost.. this might be the perfect go between (cost versus effort and results) so thanks for the tip, I plan to investigate them more.

 

item 280322312475 is for Edge 07/08 high beams Ford Edge 07 08 LED 9005 18 SMDs High Beam Light Bulb

Edited March 17, 2009 by Lex Talionis

[DJ Nap]

Look at this EBAY item for LED headlight bulbs;

 

Link:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LED-9005-Hi...bayphotohosting

 

or EBAY Item number: 270359604817

 

Anyone see them in action???

Any thoughts???

Think this is a rip off or a first look at new technologies coming???

 

This technology is currently in place for the new Lexus LS hybrid and Audi A8. I'm definitely not an expert, but I came across this from another seller on ebay.

 

"What are the positives and negatives to running LEDs in my headlights? LED headlight bulbs match the colors intended far better then HID or halogen and the color doesn't change over time. LED bulbs never burn out, stay cool to the touch and use a fraction of the power required by either HIDs or halogen. The one drawback is LED light output although is very visible does not provide sufficient light output on the ground for safe driving conditions. LED headlight bulbs are intended only for show car or off road use."

 

A headlight's cut pattern was designed specifically for where the bulb's filament sits. These LEDs have light all around the bulb, instead of the middle. All of those LEDs are way different than a 1/4" long filament.

[Lex Talionis]

This technology is currently in place for the new Lexus LS hybrid and Audi A8. I'm definitely not an expert, but I came across this from another seller on ebay.

 

"What are the positives and negatives to running LEDs in my headlights? LED headlight bulbs match the colors intended far better then HID or halogen and the color doesn't change over time. LED bulbs never burn out, stay cool to the touch and use a fraction of the power required by either HIDs or halogen. The one drawback is LED light output although is very visible does not provide sufficient light output on the ground for safe driving conditions. LED headlight bulbs are intended only for show car or off road use."

 

hmm.. so despite Lexus and Audi using them, this eBay guy says "intended only for show car or off road use".

 

A headlight's cut pattern was designed specifically for where the bulb's filament sits. These LEDs have light all around the bulb, instead of the middle. All of those LEDs are way different than a 1/4" long filament.

 

not sure I follow this totally.. when looking at these for the high beams specifically on the Edge, since these units have full coverage LEDs on sides and front, and high beams have reflectors all around the inside of the light, I am not sure the issue on the filament? both filament and LED put light out 365 degrees and at the tip, and it all bounces off the reflectors, so why the light coming from a filament versus this LED would matter, I do not follow.

 

BTW, I would certainly be interested to see what someone like Todd from Retrosolutions.com would say about these - not in place of HID mind you - just from a lighting standpoint in car headlights (high beams specifically)

Edited March 18, 2009 by Lex Talionis

[DJ Nap]

hmm.. so despite Lexus and Audi using them, this eBay guy says "intended only for show car or off road use".

 

 

 

not sure I follow this totally.. when looking at these for the high beams specifically on the Edge, since these units have full coverage LEDs on sides and front, and high beams have reflectors all around the inside of the light, I am not sure the issue on the filament? both filament and LED put light out 365 degrees and at the tip, and it all bounces off the reflectors, so why the light coming from a filament versus this LED would matter, I do not follow.

 

BTW, I would certainly be interested to see what someone like Todd from Retrosolutions.com would say about these - not in place of HID mind you - just from a lighting standpoint in car headlights (high beams specifically)

 

I'm sure Lexus and Audi have technology waaay more advanced than that 900X bulb...

 

...as far as reflector pattern....have you ever seen a headlight bulb that has not been twised in properly, tilting the bulb a bit? You are correct - the light does bounce off of the reflectors, but from a "central" point. Some headlight assemblies are really small, so even a 1/5" in movement of the filament will change the way that filament reflects.

 

Just unscrew and wiggle your headlight bulb (just a little bit, to simulate a different filament position) while looking at a garage door or looking in your headlight (not directly, obviously) and look at how the beam changes.

 

I don't know, there's something funny about these bulbs. He probably has to say "for show use" for liability purposes and the fact that they don't produce a good beam.

[bbf2530]

I'm sure Lexus and Audi have technology waaay more advanced than that 900X bulb...

 

...as far as reflector pattern....have you ever seen a headlight bulb that has not been twised in properly, tilting the bulb a bit? You are correct - the light does bounce off of the reflectors, but from a "central" point. Some headlight assemblies are really small, so even a 1/5" in movement of the filament will change the way that filament reflects.

 

Just unscrew and wiggle your headlight bulb (just a little bit, to simulate a different filament position) while looking at a garage door or looking in your headlight (not directly, obviously) and look at how the beam changes.

 

I don't know, there's something funny about these bulbs. He probably has to say "for show use" for liability purposes and the fact that they don't produce a good beam.

 

Hi all. :D Just to back up what DJ Nap has stated. First, just like aftermarket HID kits, any type of aftermarket bulb (including LED) that is not DOT approved for on-road use is not street legal in the low beam position. Therefore only Factory installed HID's and LED's are legal in the low beam position. That is why, just like aftermarket HID kits, these LED bulbs are illegal for on-road use in the low beam position. However, while it is not always a good idea, you can use them in the fog light or high beam position.

 

So to try and explain it simply:

Factory HID headlamps (like in my MKZ and many other cars) = Legal.

Aftermarket HID headlamp low beam kits/bulbs = Illegal.

Factory LED headlamps in the Lexus LS400 Hybrid = Legal.

Aftermarket LED low beam bulbs = Illegal.

 

Also, I checked the Lexus and Audi websites. While the Lexus LS400 Hybrid does use LED headlamp units, it seems the Audi A-8 does not. The Audi A-8 (all models) headlamp units are listed as Bi-Xenon units. And I checked the options and could find no LED headlamp option. So unless I missed something, the Audi does not have the LED headlamps.

 

And while it would be too difficult to explain completely here, a headlamp units reflectors and lenses must be specifically designed for the type of bulb being used. A Halogen bulb puts out light in a different pattern than an old incandescent type bulb. An HID bulb puts out light differently than a Halogen bulb. A Bi-Xenon bulb puts out light differently than a regular HID bulb. And LED bulbs put out light differently than any of them.

 

Therefore, if the reflectors and lenses are not specifically designed for an LED bulb, the light will not be dispersed correctly. Whether that means there will not be enough light cast forward for the driver to see properly, or there will be so much scattered light that it will blind oncoming drivers, we cannot say without further information. That is why we depend on the DOT approval to be sure that lights and bulbs work correctly. And again, these bulbs are not DOT approved for low beam use (sorry for the repetition).

 

That is why there are DOT regulations that must be adhered to for street legal and approved lighting. The rules are not in place to piss us off, they are in place to protect us from unscrupulous sellers of inferior equipment, or sellers looking to make a quick buck by selling something that is not made for the applications they may be advertising.

 

These aftermarket type bulbs are not DOT approved for on road, low beam position usage. That is why they either state "Only for use in the fog and/or high beam position", "Not legal for on road use", "Intended only for show car or off road use", etc etc.

 

It is even obvious from looking at the pictures they include of the LED bulb that the light dispersal will be nothing like a Halogen or even HID bulb.

 

That is why the website specifically mentions (I quote): "FOR SAFTY: HIGHLY RECOMMENDED USE FOR FOG LIGHT OR HIGH BEAM ONLY." This is because they are illegal for on road use in the low beam position.

 

As usual, I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with their own vehicles. We are all adults and are free to choose what we wish to do, what we to purchase. and how we wish to act. I am simply supplying relevant and verifiable information for anyone interested. In this way they can make an informed decision.

 

Hope this information helps.

 

Whatever anyone decides to do, good luck. :beerchug:

Edited March 18, 2009 by bbf2530

[Lex Talionis]

you know me & disclaimers... not worried 1 iota about any DOT, law, legality, regulation relative to this product for example, I use HID and will use them all day long and recommend them every chance I get.

 

Now, disclaimers out of the way, with these LED bulbs, the verdict is still out. I totally get all the points about how placement of bulb, and thus potentially type of bulb, relative to the reflector design it was designed to use, can have effects on light output, dispersal, range, cutoff, etc... BUT until they are actually tried in ones actual car, I am not on board yet that for high beams they may be a bogus deal for the above reasons. putting them in and snapping some photos will really tell the tail what you will get as the theory is in place that explains why it should not work to well, but that does not always apply to real world results which may be totally acceptable. I am very tempted, but I am trying to do more research on the web at other car sites where these seem to have already been found by others prior to us here. The bigger issue I have read thus far is quality control and the LEDs burning out well ahead of lifespan.

 

"I don't know, there's something funny about these bulbs." - yes, I feel you. but I am also impressed by LEDs and all of the benefits I have seen them in applications I have used from camping to car to simple flashlight, this has me partially buying into the concept, but not 100% just yet.

[securinu]

Lexus and Audi have way more money to throw at the technology than some china manu co. The r8 uses led and they are bright and use a self leveling like most hid units. I havent seen the lexus but i would guess it is similar with a leveling device.

[BlazedUp]

Hid kits are garbage.........they are a waste of money.

[Lex Talionis]

Hid kits are garbage.........they are a waste of money.

 

huh??? (1) not even what we are talking about here as main topic and (2) what the heck are you even talking about HID is garbage.. where does that comment even come from and can you be any more vague?? look around here and the web in large as electronic ballast HID kits are pretty proven with results confirmed & enjoyed by thousands

 

 

oh BTW.. the more I am reading about LED bulbs - what we are talking about here as main topic - is that they are just a no go. Even well known and respected light manufacturer PIAA made an LED syle bulb and it just does not get high marks or reviews. So I hold little hope for this off brand model seen on eBay and other sites on the web.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Lex Talionis

[PJFW8]

Hid kits are garbage.........they are a waste of money.

There is a lot of junk out there. There are also reliable suppliers and resources available to protect consumers. I'm not an aftermarket hid fan, but there are well designed kits available. You can't go wrong following Lex's lead. I should name my Edge "Lex" for all the mods I "copied" following his research!

[Dymes]

There is a lot of junk out there. There are also reliable suppliers and resources available to protect consumers. I'm not an aftermarket hid fan, but there are well designed kits available. You can't go wrong following Lex's lead. I should name my Edge "Lex" for all the mods I "copied" following his research!

 

 

Amen to that !!! The Lex Edge get it now !!!

[KMAN]

I was wondering about one of these HID kits have they improved since this video ?

Illegal HID Convesion Kits Explained (2007)

[Lex Talionis]

I was wondering about one of these HID kits have they improved since this video ?

Illegal HID Convesion Kits Explained (2007)

 

this is pretty old news really. the pitfalls and illegalities of after market HID kits can be read about here.. well, let's just say over and over and over and over again

 

as for an 'improved kit' to address this is? it is not about the kit per se and about a kit being 'improved', it is about the fact that the cars that did not come with HIDs stock do not have reflectors and lamps that were designed to be used with HID bulbs/kits. therefore, an 'improved kit' would not fix that inherent issue as a kit just comes with ballasts and bulbs & wiring harness... not entire replacement lamp and reflectors.

[KMAN]

this is pretty old news really. the pitfalls and illegalities of after market HID kits can be read about here.. well, let's just say over and over and over and over again

 

as for an 'improved kit' to address this is? it is not about the kit per se and about a kit being 'improved', it is about the fact that the cars that did not come with HIDs stock do not have reflectors and lamps that were designed to be used with HID bulbs/kits. therefore, an 'improved kit' would not fix that inherent issue as a kit just comes with ballasts and bulbs & wiring harness... not entire replacement lamp and reflectors.

And the Edge headlight reflector are suitable meaning Factory's could put the HID in IF that was an option? With out changing the entire housing ?That's why I ask and I just want to stay away from the poor quality ones. And they really look easy to install. Turn off to me are FROM learning form these forums. Because of the Edge have a separate high and low beam , You will have to double the price to have all HIDs and is there any for the driving lights . Unless I am wrong ?

Edited April 5, 2009 by KMAN

[ablb]

I'm sure Lexus and Audi have technology waaay more advanced than that 900X bulb...

 

...as far as reflector pattern....have you ever seen a headlight bulb that has not been twised in properly, tilting the bulb a bit? You are correct - the light does bounce off of the reflectors, but from a "central" point. Some headlight assemblies are really small, so even a 1/5" in movement of the filament will change the way that filament reflects.

 

Just unscrew and wiggle your headlight bulb (just a little bit, to simulate a different filament position) while looking at a garage door or looking in your headlight (not directly, obviously) and look at how the beam changes.

 

I don't know, there's something funny about these bulbs. He probably has to say "for show use" for liability purposes and the fact that they don't produce a good beam.

 

Agree 100%

this is the voice of experience speaking.

 

I replaced the bulbs on our previous ride with silverstars and got 1 NOT quite in right.

The light pattern was ALL over the place!! BAD BAD!!

These reflector are designed for THE filament to be in EXACTLY 1 place + LED's individually act like a spot light so all the LEDs would be pointed at a different (wrong) spot on the reflector.

 

I would also be leery of a CO. that has "One Pair Set of Two LED 9005 18 SMDs Xenon Headlight Bul" in the same sentence.

 

ab

[bbf2530]

And the Edge headlight reflector are suitable meaning Factory's could put the HID in IF that was an option? With out changing the entire housing ?That's why I ask and I just want to stay away from the poor quality ones. And they really look easy to install. Turn off to me are FROM learning form these forums. Because of the Edge have a separate high and low beam , You will have to double the price to have all HIDs and is there any for the driving lights . Unless I am wrong ?

 

Hi KMAN. :D Several points: First, as ablb stated, the lenses and reflectors for non-HID cars are not designed for HID bulbs. Therefore they do not aim the light correctly when aftermarket HID kits are added. There is nothing that can reasonably be done to correct this problem. Factory HID Headlight lenses and reflectors are designed specifically for HID bulbs light patterns. Aftermarket HID kits are not.

 

Second, if you choose to ignore the legalities and design problems and install an aftermarket HID kit anyway, do not put them in the high beam position. HID's take time to properly warm up. So if you place them in the high beam position, you will effectively lose the "flash to pass" function. When you flash the high beams, they will have no time to warm up and will not work properly.

 

As far as the fog lights (they are fog lights on our cars, not "driving lights) you can install the regular low beam units in the fog light position. In reality, it is the only legal and practical place to install them, since the low beam position is illegal and the high beam position is not practical.

 

And as an FYI: Aftermarket HID kits are not illegal due to some great government conspiracy to keep us in the dark, or any of the other various reasons some people seem to believe. They are illegal for on road use due to the fact that they have not been properly designed, tested or DOT certified for all of the different vehicles that they are installed in, for aftermarket use. A proper HID headlight unit must be designed from the beginning to use HID bulbs. No way around it.

 

And as an answer to those who would use the fact that they and/or others have installed aftermarket HID kits so you should too, the reply is a simple one: Other people steal, other people rob, other people buy scam products every day. Blending in with the anonymity of others who do illegal or foolish things is a ridiculous excuse/defense for doing something that is illegal and/or foolish. "Hey, lot's of people are investing with this guy Bernie Madoff. Must be a great deal, so write him a check!" Yes, the fact that others do it too is a great idea!

 

Not trying to talk you out of it, just providing the facts.

 

Whatever you decide to do, good luck. :beerchug:

Edited April 5, 2009 by bbf2530

[Lex Talionis]

And the Edge headlight reflector are suitable meaning Factory's could put the HID in IF that was an option? With out changing the entire housing ?That's why I ask and I just want to stay away from the poor quality ones. And they really look easy to install. Turn off to me are FROM learning form these forums. Because of the Edge have a separate high and low beam , You will have to double the price to have all HIDs and is there any for the driving lights . Unless I am wrong ?

 

so, after reading all of the above you still decide to go for it like I did and many others on this forums (and the thousands of others on forums for all types of cars you can go find and read up on) - it is a matter of deciding on whose kit to buy. 1 thing for sure is that IF you do this you MUST get an electronic ballast kit. period. the temp of bulb you get (generally relates to that 'neat' HID color many of us like & light output) is a matter of opinion, but as you can read here, and many places on the web, really high temp bulbs can really attract unwanted attention as their colors tend to get very blue to purple. that is why, personally, I found the 5000k (at 35w) for my low beams a great mix of light output and the European style 'look' I happen to like. kind of blue tint, but not like BAM blue or purple of the higher temps.

 

so, I will personally recommend RetroSolutions.. he is on these forums, great kits, affordable, super helpful, easy to install, and many here have them as do I. Would I put them in high beams? no. do not want the cost and do not use high beams much. I HATE my incandescent high beams, but just can't spend the money for the look for something seldom used. For fogs? no thanks. same sentiment as high beams. I just went with MTech bulbs to get away from the dreaded incandescent color.

 

you can research some loooong threads on HID its here for brands, colors, watts, install tips... it has all been covered in depth

[KMAN]

Thank you both for the great info ! And your time much appreciated.

[weasel]

If you think the light output of the factory lights is crappy, putting in HID's will make them bright and crappy. Some cars have less light scatter than others after putting in HID's. In my VW, I had aftermarket projector lights installed. HID's went in shortly after. Single best thing I did to that car.

 

You can only polish a turd so much. At the end of the day, its still a turd.

[Feirstein]

The low output lowbeam H11 bulbs can be replaced with high output H9 bulbs. The H9 bulbs need minor modifications to their base to fit, but it is not all that hard. I now have superb lighting from my lowbeams.

 

The 9005 highbeam bulb can also be replaced. The best recommendation is the HIR 9011 bulb, it offers about 50% more output.

 

Both of these suggested changes focus properly and do not place too high a current load on the current wiring.