Are FRAM ULTIMATE oil filters safe to use?

[1004ron]

I noticed the latest high-grade version of the FRAM oil filters in Walmart so bought a couple for my wife's BMW X5 and my Sport.

 

I installed one of these filters in my wife's X5 and decided to take a look at it after +- 2K miles, and that was enough to return the unused filters to Walmart.

 

The attached photos leave no doubt that the filter media presents a high flow restriction, enough to partially collapse the filter.

 

Search Results | FRAM

FRAM FE10075 Synthetic Endurance® Oil Filter | FRAM - BMW Filter FE10075

[Cerberus]

seems like there should a cage inside to support the media. 

most cartridge filters have some kind of a cage inside to protect the filter from being crushed by the pressure differential

 

I will say that the synthetic media Fram filters for mine (2.7) do have the cage inside to support the media and do not have any crush problem.

Edited June 8 by Cerberus

[1004ron]

I had two of those for my Edge and two for my wife's BMW and after seeing what happened I returned all four to Walmart, even though I agree that the ones for the Ford appear to be more robust, like you have found.

 

Edit:

I notice that the OEM Mann filter doesn't have a cage but appears to have a much greater surface area and the old one I pulled was in good shape - that also makes me question the filtration efficiency of the Fram.

 

Edited June 8 by 1004ron

[Cerberus]

31 minutes ago, 1004ron said:

I had two of those for my Edge and two for my wife's BMW and after seeing what happened I returned all four to Walmart, even though I agree that the ones for the Ford appear to be more robust, like you have found.

 

Edit:

I notice that the OEM Mann filter doesn't have a cage but appears to have a much greater surface area and the old one I pulled was in good shape - that also makes me question the filtration efficiency of the Fram.

 

filters are a subject of particular interest (hah!) to me

everything is a compromise.

You have several conflicting parameters to work within, like oil pressure & flow rate, versus engine drag which effects fuel economy.

But of course, the required oil flow at a specific viscosity is a non-negotiable value for any given engine, defined by machining tolerances and wear.

Pressure requirements are contingent on clearances and load (power stroke) on the bearing to journal mating. 

Flow requirements are contingent on how quickly the pressurized journals squirt their cushion out, and back to the pan (which again is influenced by design clearances & wear)

You can make a filter that would not let anything over 0.1 micron particulate through it, BUT, you'd never get enough flow to make the pressure to float your bearings unless it had Massive surface area.

 

The Mann filter does look like it has a lot more surface area but being a cellulose filter media, the pose sizing is highly irregular compared to a woven synthetic filter media, and that irregularity makes for some larger pores (bad for filtration but great for flow) and some tight pores which are arguably wasted filter surface until or unless the large pores are filled up. But is won't crush because it is flowing a lot of (less clean) oil.

The primary benefit of synthetic filter media is that a tightly woven synthetic media can have extremely predictable and normalized small pore size which allows for a high level of filtration without being too restrictive to flow rate. 

But a heavy oil at high flow rates will still exert a lot of pressure on the media and crush it if it is not well supported. 

 

 

[enigma-2]

Toms Oil did testing on oil filters years ago, Fram was one of the worst.

 

Mobile One was the best (and most expensive), Motorcraft was second and still rated excellent. GM Delco was also rated excellent. (Mopar was an aftermarket filter.)

 

Can never go wrong with Motorcraft parts. 

[Cerberus]

8 minutes ago, enigma-2 said:

Toms Oil did testing on oil filters years ago, Fram was one of the worst.

 

Mobile One was the best (and most expensive), Motorcraft was second and still rated excellent. GM Delco was also rated excellent. (Mopar was an aftermarket filter.)

 

Can never go wrong with Motorcraft parts. 

 

right, but that was not the Fram ultimate or Fram titanium filter.

I was leery of them as well, but this is a different product from the paper pleated weak garbage they made before.

Actually the Purolator Pure One / Boss filter was my go-to forever, but I never found them being made for my engine,

so I was buying redline filters with a synthetic media, but the Fram filter is identical, and more readily available.

 

Now that said, If you can show me how THIS filter is garbage, I will throw out my stash of them,

but apples to apples comparisons are more on-the-nose relevant than apples to garbage trucks.

Contrary to common opinion, you can in fact go wrong with motorcraft parts. 

 

as a quick example, motocraft captive waterpump in a 3.5L has a brown plastic garbage impeller (that arrived broken when i ordered one) 

whereas a delco pump for the same engine (yes, Delco) had a metal impeller, so that's the one i opted for.

 

[enigma-2]

1 hour ago, Cerberus said:

so I was buying redline filters with a synthetic media, but the Fram filter is identical, and more readily available.

Wonder what they are using for "synthetic media"; some type of plasitc? With motorcraft you don't have to question, you know it's good enough. 

 

1 hour ago, Cerberus said:

as a quick example, motocraft captive waterpump in a 3.5L has a brown plastic garbage impeller (that arrived broken when i ordered one) 

whereas a delco pump for the same engine (yes, Delco) had a metal impeller, so that's the one i opted for.

What kind of metal? Metal can corrode. Plastic is not as strong but doesn't corrode. Personally, I would stick with Motorcraft. Delco is also a good brand. Can't go wrong with either.

 

Still thinking about having local dealer change my 3.5 water pump as a proactive measure. Thought I'd do this around 150k but service manager felt I could go 175k before changing. It'll be Motorcraft of course 😁

[Cerberus]

37 minutes ago, enigma-2 said:

Wonder what they are using for "synthetic media"; some type of plasitc? With motorcraft you don't have to question, you know it's good enough. 

 

What kind of metal? Metal can corrode. Plastic is not as strong but doesn't corrode. Personally, I would stick with Motorcraft. Delco is also a good brand. Can't go wrong with either.

 

Still thinking about having local dealer change my 3.5 water pump as a proactive measure. Thought I'd do this around 150k but service manager felt I could go 175k before changing. It'll be Motorcraft of course 😁

Funny thing, 'Good enough' rarely is. I want exceptional.

The synthetic filter media is typically a tightly woven fiberglass cloth, preferred for its flexibility and strength.

I never wondered about it because ever since I bought the PF35L Delco filter for a small block chevy, I have used filters with synthetic filter media because it simply superior to cellulose.

full stop.

 

Yes, metal corrodes. steel, iron, aluminum.. all of these are common metals to find on the cooling system of most vehicles.. so lets just say, concerns for corrosion potential are minimal for me.

Nevermind that coolants are designed with corrosion inhibitors to avoid exactly that problem..

 

From my own experience, plus the experiences of many people who've had the captive pump fail around the 100k mark,

pushing the service interval on that component to that far out is potentially foolhardy.. but whatever makes you happy, have at it. 

 

To be clear, I'm not here to convince anyone what is the best part or whose parts to trust, I'm just supporting and defending my own choices.

I'm not a brand fanboi, Far from it, I like best what works best.

Your vehicle, your money, your choice. 

[enigma-2]

I worried about the wp failing, and talked to one of the mechanics at Ford service department that I trust. 

 

He said that the failures were mainly happening in 07-08 engines and related to poor maintenance. Customers not getting oil and coolant changed on schedule. (The 07-08 engines were shipped with the old gold coolant. Ford also found that on engines built before 04/01/2008, the water pump inlet tube was susceptible failing due to coolant corrosion.)

 

While he admitted that all water pumps will fail eventually, he said that they should go at least 200k or more with proper maintenance. (Mactfordedge has several YouTube videos where he ran Lulubelle over 300k without a failure.) Wish I could say that about the PTU ....

[Cerberus]

I had a 2011 fusion sport with the 3.5 w/ captive water pump fail on me at 86k. The vehicle had been leased prior to my ownership so I can't speak for its early maintenance life but I took good care of it..

 

That is a different situation though,  because replacing that waterpump requires dropping the entire eng/trans assy out of the vehicle, whereas the pump can be replaced with the engine in place on the older edges

[enigma-2]

86k sucks. You would think that the leasing agent would take care of maintenance. Oil changes but not coolant. Maybe the previous owner thinking it was a rental and their going to get rid of it after a couple, beat the shit out of the car. (?)

 

My dealer drops the subframe to change water pump on all Edges/MKXs. Said it's faster. Think he quoted $2600 or thereabouts. Probably over 3k now. 

 

Its hard to give up a car you love when all it needs is a RDU. If it were me and that's all that's needed, and you already have a new unit, no question that puppie gets a rear end. 

[Cerberus]

43 minutes ago, enigma-2 said:

Its hard to give up a car you love when all it needs is a RDU. If it were me and that's all that's needed, and you already have a new unit, no question that puppie gets a rear end. 

Exactly.  If I can find a lift to do the job on. I've got a couple coworkers with lifts at home but all are occupied with long term projects.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

wow haven't seen a filter go like that in ages.

 

could be just a defective unit, but generally i stay with purolator boss or motorcraft for this very reason. am sure you would do fine with mobil1 and royal purple filters too as far as reliability.

 

edit: as far as plastic vs metal impellers, it is also a compromise just like oil filters. should the metal fail it will cause serious damage throughout the engine. from what i have seen the plastic basically dissolves lol. idk which is better, but maintaining coolant is def a priority.

Edited July 23 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[Cerberus]

On 7/23/2024 at 6:50 PM, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

wow haven't seen a filter go like that in ages.

 

could be just a defective unit, but generally i stay with purolator boss or motorcraft for this very reason. am sure you would do fine with mobil1 and royal purple filters too as far as reliability.

 

edit: as far as plastic vs metal impellers, it is also a compromise just like oil filters. should the metal fail it will cause serious damage throughout the engine. from what i have seen the plastic basically dissolves lol. idk which is better, but maintaining coolant is def a priority.

back when i was working on jaguars (XJ8 mostly for a while), i changed a lot of small cartridge style water pumps with plastic impellers that had shattered, and (again, in my experience) no, the plastic does not dissolve. If it did, it would not be a suitable material for an impeller in the first place. where all the fragments of impeller ended up, there is no way to know, but many vehicles had odd cooling issues after a pump went bad and grenaded.

 

And a cast iron impeller will not fail, except perhaps by corrosion, and we've covered that angle well enough.