Thinking about a 2024 ST

[Cerberus]

12 hours ago, handfiler said:

There were no questions or directions to anyone in particular in my comments. I do know with 100% certainty that the 2.7 in my 2019 Nautilus has a belt driven oil pump as does the newer 5.0 in the Mustang and F-150. 2019 Lincoln Oil Pump Drive Belt

The 5.0's were notorious for exploding oil pump gears in high HP applications when they were driven directly from the crankshaft. The new belt driven configuration has eliminated that issue and is reliable to 1,100 HP and at sustained high RPM.

Wet belt driven oil pumps are becoming more common (3.0 Duramax diesel) and have advantages over chain drive.

 

 

So if the current Edge ST has the wet belt driven pump and only direct injection without port injectors to keep the valves clean, or any other of the Gen2 benefits, thats a double (plus) reason to say f*** that noise as far as I am concerned.

That means this thread has served the purpose I hoped it would, it talked me out of buying a 2024 Edge ST.

 

Regarding the long term reliability of the wet belt driven oil pump system, I stand by my position on that, it's GD stupid. 

I've been walking this earth for over 5 decades and have had a fervent interest in all things mechanical & technical for over 4 of those decades.. 

One of the things i have learned in that time is that when something offers a benefit of any kind (like reduced price or drive harmonics or rotating mass from using a belt), it almost always comes at a price, like longevity or strength.

To be clear, I don't have a problem with belts driving things, but a belt that runs in oil.. i'd probably only trust that if it were a steel link toothed belt with rubber overlay for harmonics, because at least then when it sheers the rubber off, the pump could still operate, just loudly enough to be an obvious indicator. 

 

A little quick research has shown me that many people have similar concerns, including the NHTSA

 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/self-clogging-ford-oil-pumps-lead-feds-to-investigate-1-0-liter-ecoboost-engines

 

Thanks all for the conversation. ☮️

[STBEAST]

Although I am more confused than ever, this is a lot of great information. After a good examination of my 2024 2.7 Engine. I see no signs of a secondary fuel injector for the intake valve. I do however see a very extensive network of piping and hoses throughout the intake system. In addition to emissions, I wonder if they have taken measures to minimize the carbon buildup on the intake valve. How long do these engines go before they have any issues? I guess a lot could be based on frequency of oil changes, quality of oil AND gas etc.

But aren't most engines today direct injected? Is it possible to get 100k plus off the 2.7 gen 1 without problems?

 

[handfiler]

18 hours ago, Cerberus said:

So if the current Edge ST has the wet belt driven pump and only direct injection without port injectors to keep the valves clean, or any other of the Gen2 benefits, thats a double (plus) reason to say f*** that noise as far as I am concerned.

That means this thread has served the purpose I hoped it would, it talked me out of buying a 2024 Edge ST.

 

Regarding the long term reliability of the wet belt driven oil pump system, I stand by my position on that, it's GD stupid. 

I've been walking this earth for over 5 decades and have had a fervent interest in all things mechanical & technical for over 4 of those decades.. 

One of the things i have learned in that time is that when something offers a benefit of any kind (like reduced price or drive harmonics or rotating mass from using a belt), it almost always comes at a price, like longevity or strength.

To be clear, I don't have a problem with belts driving things, but a belt that runs in oil.. i'd probably only trust that if it were a steel link toothed belt with rubber overlay for harmonics, because at least then when it sheers the rubber off, the pump could still operate, just loudly enough to be an obvious indicator. 

 

A little quick research has shown me that many people have similar concerns, including the NHTSA

 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/self-clogging-ford-oil-pumps-lead-feds-to-investigate-1-0-liter-ecoboost-engines

 

Thanks all for the conversation. ☮️

 

That's for the 1 liter engine. Things have progressed since that abomination. At any rate it sounds like you've made up your mind that you want nothing to do with belt drive. Good luck in your hunt for a replacement for your Sport;  lots of flavors out there to choose from.

Edited January 15 by handfiler

[handfiler]

10 hours ago, STBEAST said:

Although I am more confused than ever, this is a lot of great information. After a good examination of my 2024 2.7 Engine. I see no signs of a secondary fuel injector for the intake valve. I do however see a very extensive network of piping and hoses throughout the intake system. In addition to emissions, I wonder if they have taken measures to minimize the carbon buildup on the intake valve. How long do these engines go before they have any issues? I guess a lot could be based on frequency of oil changes, quality of oil AND gas etc.

But aren't most engines today direct injected? Is it possible to get 100k plus off the 2.7 gen 1 without problems?

 

If you follow the maintenance schedule and use a quality synthetic oil that meets Fords specifications, your 2.7 should easily go 200-300K. The 2.7 is not known for fouling the intakes like some other GDI engines.

Also consider installing a J&L Oil Separator (catch can) to reduce the oil vapors entering the intake tract from the PCV system. A number of the members here have installed them.

[Dzier217]

On 1/6/2024 at 11:28 AM, omar302 said:

Take the 2024 for a test drive first. I personally have NOT driven one, but given the recent sunroof glass change I had on my 2016 and how the replacement is not acoustic glass, similar to 2019+ models, and that even the front side windows are also no more acoustic on newer models (not sure which year it started), I suspect you'll feel quite a difference in noise levels. 

I just purchased a 2024 Ford Edge Titanium. It is quieter than the RX350. It feels much like the Audi Q5. I love the uncluttered understated interior. Even if they changed the glass, perhaps they made other sound deadening changes to keep it a quiet ride. These are not cheap vehicles, my MSRP was over 53k, so they must drive competitively with other vehicles. The redesigned edge overseas moved even more upscale, which is probably why the Lincoln Nautilus was updated for 2024, and the edge here will be no longer. The 2024 Lincoln Nautilus sells for 53k-80k. This is quite a bit more than the 2023 Nautilus. It is shipped here from China. 

[Nick Halstead]

On 1/14/2024 at 11:18 AM, STBEAST said:

 Is it possible to get 100k plus off the 2.7 gen 1 without problems?

 

I will tell you my 2015 Edge Sport I bought brand new in August 2015 was tuned at 10,000 miles. From 10-20,000 miles I beat the living shit out of it datalogging for my tune. Probably about 200 1/4 mile runs and 30-100 runs, 0-60 runs in a 4 week period. I’m now at 150,000 miles and thats 140,000 tuned miles. I have yet to have a single issue with the engine besides a bad alternator.

[STBEAST]

That's good news to hear. Nice pictures too!  I hear so many pros and cons about the 2.7 but it seems to have proven itself over the years.

Seems like if you DON'T follow the recommended maintenance schedule, they will go a long time. I get the oil changes every 4K max (not the recommended 5K).

 Plan on getting the PTU and RDU fluid changed every 20k (instead of the recommended 30K). 

[1004ron]

My 2017 Sport has lived a "sheltered life", never driven hard, has had a catch-can on it from 27K miles, and it is running as smooth and efficient as it did when I bought it in March 2017.

 

When I next do a spark plug change I'll take a look at the intake valves - when I did the first plug change the combustion chambers and intake were spotlessly clean, which could be due to it only using Costco Top Tier gas.

 

I was surprised to see that my Honda lawnmower had a wet timing belt - at 7 years its still going strong and haven't heard of failures - I'm in a wait and see mode on this type of application.