Help with leak diagnosis- UPDATE

[Kitulu]

2008 Ford Edge Limited, 150,000 miles on the odometer.

I have a coolant leak.

 

On the drive from NY to FL, my Dad and I noticed something dripping from under the front of the Edge when we stopped for gas, by the right front wheel. Coolant level was fine, so we thought it was condensation from the A/C and pressed on. We went a couple more hours, then I got a call from my Dad, who was driving the Edge. He had lost power, check engine light had come on, and the temp gauge had went into the red. He immediately pulled off the interstate and shut it down, and discovered that the reservoir was dry. There is none of the usual indications of a blown head gasket, i.e. white smoke from exhaust, choppy idle, coolant in the oil.

 

We towed it from GA the rest of the way to the house in FL. I filled the reservoir with water to further diagnose the leak, jacked it up on stands and started the engine. There appears to be a trail of water coming down around the a/c compressor, and it is dripping off the bottom of the oil pan. It starts and runs fine, and the oil still appears to be good, with no chocolate milk. I haven't scanned the CEL yet, as my FORScan adapter is in my POD that gets delivered at the end of next week, and I don't want to drive it up to Autozone with it leaking and run the risk of it getting worse and dumping coolant into the crankcase. 

 

Am I looking at a water pump replacement here?

 

I attached a link to a semi-crappy cell phone video of the leak.

 

https://youtu.be/-n3Bc2UEL70

 

UPDATE (19 April 2023)- Well, I ended up having it towed to a local shop. I got the intake manifold, valve covers, coolant reservoir, spark plugs, and wiring harness out of the way. I ran into a roadblock with the power steering pump. The bolts would not break loose. I had a 10mm ratcheting wrench with another wrench to use as an extender, and two u-joints and three extensions trying to get to them, and gave up after two hours of various tool combinations and positions, and snapping an extension in half trying to break torque. 

 

Stupid, stupid, stupid design by Ford. 

 

$2600 in labor and additional parts that the shop had to order, including a new timing cover. When they pulled the old one off, they discovered that it had cracked at some point and been repaired with JB Weld. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Kitulu

[dabangsta]

3 hours ago, Kitulu said:

2008 Ford Edge Limited, 150,000 miles on the odometer.

I have a coolant leak.

...

We towed it from GA the rest of the way to the house in FL. I filled the reservoir with water to further diagnose the leak, jacked it up on stands and started the engine. There appears to be a trail of water coming down around the a/c compressor, and it is dripping off the bottom of the oil pan. It starts and runs fine, and the oil still appears to be good, with no chocolate milk.

...

Am I looking at a water pump replacement here?

I couldn't get the video to load, but with your description of where the coolant is coming from, yes, it is possible that it is the internal water pump is going bad and is leaking out of weep hole. Here is a post that seems to have a good picture of one of the weep holes: 

 

[Kitulu]

2 hours ago, dabangsta said:

I couldn't get the video to load, but with your description of where the coolant is coming from, yes, it is possible that it is the internal water pump is going bad and is leaking out of weep hole. Here is a post that seems to have a good picture of one of the weep holes: 

 

 

I uploaded the video to YouTube and updated the link. 

[DILLARD000]

9 hours ago, Kitulu said:

...2008 Ford Edge...150,000 miles

...coolant leak...under the front...by the right front wheel...lost power, check engine light...temp gauge had went into the red

...immediately pulled off...shut it down...reservoir was dry

...none of the usual indications of a blown head gasket, i.e. white smoke from exhaust, choppy idle, coolant in the oil.

...towed...to the house...fillled the reservoir with water...on stands...started the engine

...water coming down around the a/c compressor...starts and runs fine...oil still appears to be good..no chocolate milk

...haven't scanned the CEL yet...don't want to drive it up to Autozone

...water pump replacement here?

...video of the leak...https://youtu.be/-n3Bc2UEL70

 

Boy that's "DeJaVu", near identical occurance here last summer on my wifes 2008 Edge V6~3.5L~DOHC @160kMiles.

Yep was the dangedTimingChainDriven InternalWaterPump, had blown its inner gasket (thankfully did not blow outer gasket to the OilPan)

so all Coolant was blown out WeepHole on the front side of the Block behind Alternator above AirCompressor &\or out the ReservoirCap.

As in your case, EngineOil was not contaminated, no MilkShake so no Engine\Bearing damage.

Pulled entire Engine+Trans+PTU from the top (most YouTube vids show Engine removal from bottom).

Renewed TimingChains+Tensioners+Guides+3of5Cogs+VVTSolenoids, upgraded MetalImpellerWaterPump+HiVolumeOilPump.

Also renewed PTU & FrontStruts,  cleaned up & repainted EngineBay+Underside, rewrapped WiringHarness.

Year earlier had replaced Belts & Hoses & ThermoStat & Plugs & OxSensors & PCVValve & ThrottleMotor+Sensor, so those got checked+cleaned+reinstalled.

New Engine Filter+Oil 0w30.FullSyn, new Coolant Peak#10X, new PTU GearOil AmsOil#75w140.FullSyn., new MerconV RedLine#HighTemp in both Trans+Steering.  Managed to remove+reinstall Engine without disassembly of  AirCompressor+Condensor+FreonLines.

Also deleted TransCoolerBypassValve (mounted on outside LeftFrontCorner of Trans); now Transmission runs ~170f instead of 190f+.

 

After several tests, all this was caused by main computer PCM not properly controlling RadiatorFans PWM module & letting Engine overheat;

now have custom RadiatorFan TempSwitches that operate in parallel with factory PWM module, runs fans HalfSpeed>194f, FullSpeed>200f.

Root cause was PCM Computer only let PWM module operate RadiatorFans 25%~35%Speed & only when AirCon is switched on;

believe Ford intentionally wrote PCM firmware to stop properly cooling engine once OdoMeter hits 150kMiles+, designed obsolescence !!!

 

If you need a list+vendors of parts  I used in this rebuild, let me know.

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by DILLARD000

[Kitulu]

On 3/19/2023 at 7:37 PM, DILLARD000 said:

 

Boy that's "DeJaVu", near identical occurance here last summer on my wifes 2008 Edge V6~3.5L~DOHC @160kMiles.

Yep was the dangedTimingChainDriven InternalWaterPump, had blown its inner gasket (thankfully did not blow outer gasket to the OilPan)

so all Coolant was blown out WeepHole on the front side of the Block behind Alternator above AirCompressor &\or out the ReservoirCap.

 

I'm going to try to do it with the engine in place. I have access to a hoist, but removing the engine looks like a ton of work... out of idle curiosity, how much work was it to pull the engine out through the top of the car? I had planned to order the water pump and timing chain kit from Rock Auto, and replace the pump, chain, sprockets, tensioners, belt, spark plugs, PCV valve (while I have it all apart anyway). I've done the plugs before, and that took something like 4 hours start to finish due to the stupid design of the engine and placement in the car. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by 1004ron

[DILLARD000]

On 3/20/2023 at 8:26 AM, Kitulu said:

...going to try to do it with the engine in place

...access to a hoist, but removing the engine looks like a ton of work...how much work was it to pull the engine out through the top

...planned to order the water pump and timing chain kit from Rock Auto

...replace the pump, chain, sprockets, tensioners, belt, spark plugs, PCV valve

...done the plugs before

Lifting out & reinstall of Engine+Trans+PTU as a unit was not as difficult as I originally thought it might be.

Before lifting out, removed these items:

* Hood

* WiringHarness

* AirBox+Throttle+IntakeManifold

* Belts

* Hoses

* Alternator

* ExhaustYPipe+CatCons

* Front Left+Rght+Intermediate Axles

* DriveShaft

* FrontGrille+Radiator

Managed to manuever AC Condensor+Compressor out of the way without disassembling any freon lines.

Honestly most difficult part of lift was getting out the 2 horizontal Bolts holding left Engine\TransMount to the Frame;

bad design with little space between Trans & Frame; used BoxEndWrench+Cheater, 1/6Turn 1 Flat at a time, very slow.

Before re-installing Engine+Trans+PTU, converted those 2 HorizontalMountingBolts to Studs that I installed first

then sat assembly onto the Studs & secured them with Grade8 Nuts; should have been this way from factory.

I've had front Grille+Radiator out before; a bit of a bear that first time around figuring how to seperate Radiator+Condensor.

I used all Cloyes TimingComponents, replaced everything except the 2 larger VVT Sprockets;

did use a pair of special CamHoldingJigs; Cloyes video says they're not needed, but made me more confortable having them in place.

I upgraded from OEM PlasticImpeller Pump to a MetalImpeller Pump; also upgraded OEM OilPump to a Melling HiVolume Pump.

Replaced OEM Rubber RadiatorHoses with StainlessFlex.

Did this in a 2Bay Garage area (click for more pics) using:

* two 3Ton FloorJacks

* two 3TonJackStands

* a 2Ton EngineHoist+SpreaderBar

* legs of EngineHoist plus a homemade wood jig served as an EngineStand while doing Timing+Pump work.

 

After seeing Vid linked below (amongst many other vids & forum threads on this WaterPump) decided to do engine lift,

considering I don't have a full vehicle lift & potential trouble\damage removing+installing TimingCover while in vehicle.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by DILLARD000