TnMountainMan Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 Greetings folks, 2009 edge with intermittent charging issue • Two different new (not used) alternators have been installed by licensed shop in the last 3 weeks. Still have the intermittent charging issue The original alternator burned up on it while driving it and lost all power at the gas station I pulled in to. It ran until I shut it off and then nothing when trying to start it back up. • The only issue I have is the intermittent charging issue when the dash battery light comes on. Check engine light has never came on. Battery test perfect and is only about 11 months old. Voltage is right where it needs to be on both the battery and alternator when it's charging correctly. It can sit for as much as 15 or so minutes idling and charge perfect but then all of a sudden the battery light comes on and it's no longer charging. Whether it's sitting and idling or going down the road, it has this problem. All wiring and fuses have been checked but there were no issues. All wires connections were clean and in good shape. Feel free to ask for any additional details or I will add to this if something else comes to mind that I may have forgotten to mention. Could this possibly be a PCM / ECM issue? Anyone? Thank you in advance Randy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 i assume wire resistances check out good. could be pcm issue for sure as there is SOME control over charging tho not as much as on 2011+. i assume no codes show up when obd is scanned? batteries should be checked for voltage AND cold cranking amps. electronics heavy vehicle. lately i have found that motorcraft alternators are the only ones that will do the job. i used to believe in bosch also, but i have had 2 of them brand new fail in the process of replacing the failing/not yet failed alternator on our 2007. recommend springing for new mc alternator tho theoretically remanned should work as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 I'm having the same problem as well. Everything was fine up until a couple of days ago. On the way home from work I noticed that the battery symbol popped up on my dashboard. I found it odd but didn't really think that much of it. When I got home, I put the car in park and took the keys out of the ignition. I noticed I still had room in front me and so I decided to pull forward just a bit more. When I went to start my car it wouldn't turnover. It had enough power to run all of the accessories but not enough to start the car. I figured I needed a new battery so I bought a new one but on the way to work the battery symbol popped up on my dashboard again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) From the 2009 Edge Workshop Manual.... Charging System Principles of Operation The PCM-controlled charging system, or "Smart Charge" charging system, determines the optimal voltage set point for the charging system and communicates this information to the voltage regulator. The "Smart Charge" charging system is designed to set 1 of 5 DTCs any time a charging system fault is present. All of the DTCs can set continuous faults, but not all DTCs will set as on-demand faults. DTC KOEO KOER Continuous P0563 X X X P0620 X P0625 X X P0626 X X P065B X This system uses 2 communication lines between the PCM and the generator/voltage regulator. Both of these communication lines use Pulse-Width Modulation (PWM) . The generator communication (GENCOM) line communicates the desired set point from the PCM to the voltage regulator. The generator monitor (GENMON) line communicates the generator load and error conditions to the PCM. The GENCOM command is only sent by the PCM when it is necessary to adjust the voltage set point. If the set point does not need to be changed, several seconds may elapse between PCM GENCOM commands. This normal operation will appear in the PID as occasional "bursts" of pulse-width commands. The third pin on the voltage regulator, the A circuit pin, is a circuit dedicated to monitor or sense battery voltage. The PCM simultaneously controls and monitors the output of the generator. When the current consumption is high or the battery is discharged, the PCM will raise engine speed as needed to increase generator output. The generator charges the battery and at the same time supplies power for all of the electrical loads that are required. The battery is more effectively charged with a higher voltage when the battery is cold and a lower voltage when the battery is warm. The PCM is able to adjust the charging voltage according to the battery temperature by using a signal from the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor. The PCM also uses other inputs to control charging system voltage such as the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) and Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) . This means the voltage set point is calculated by the PCM and communicated to the voltage regulator by the GENCOM circuit based on the needs of the vehicle and the conditions. To minimize engine drag when starting the engine, the PCM does not allow the generator to produce any output until the engine has started. The PCM turns off the generator during cranking to reduce the generator load and improve cranking speed. Once the engine starts, the PCM slowly increases generator output to desired voltage. The PCM controls the charging system warning indicator by sending a message over the High Speed Controller Area Network (HS-CAN) to the Instrument Cluster (IC) module. The IC module will then control charging system warning indication based on the message from the PCM. If equipped with a charging system warning indicator, the IC module will turn the indicator ON or OFF. If equipped with a message center, the IC module will display a CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM message. When the ignition is ON and the engine is OFF on vehicles equipped with a message center, the CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM message may not be displayed. For information regarding the IC module and message center, refer to Section 413-01. Under certain circumstances, the charging system may have a concern, but still keep the battery charged and the vehicle running. GENCOM is normally used to initiate charging, but the generator may charge with a fault in this circuit. If the engine is operated at greater than 2,000 rpm momentarily, the generator may "self-excite" or start charging on its own. The charging system warning indicator is illuminated and/or CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM message is displayed, and the generator operates in a default mode (approximately 13.5 volts) until the engine is turned off. When the engine is restarted and the engine is operated at greater than 2,000 rpm momentarily, the generator may again self-excite and again the charging system warning indicator is illuminated and/or CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM message is displayed. The PIDs and their associated descriptions used in the charging system diagnosis are listed below: PID Chart PID Description Normal Display Associated Circuit Name Connector, Circuit GENMON Generator monitor (GENMON) Constant fluctuating percentage 3%-98% Generator monitor (GENMON) C102A-1, CDC15 (VT) GENCMD Generator command (GENCMD) Fluctuating percentage or small intermittent bursts 3%-98% Generator communication (GENCOM) C102A-2, CDC10 (BU/OG) GENVDSD Generator voltage desired Voltage varies by vehicle needs - May be controlled by an output state control — — GENFIL Generator fault indicator lamp command/status OFF charging system is OK — — GENCMD_LF Generator command line fault NO FAULT if GENCOM circuit (GENCMD PID) is OK — — GENMON_HZ Generator monitor frequency NO FAULT if GENCOM frequency is OK — — VPWR Module supply voltage Within 0.5 volt of battery voltage — — RPM Engine revolutions per minute Engine rpm - May be controlled by an output state control — — NOTE: If no charging system DTCs are present, the charging system is operating correctly. If the charging system has a concern, it usually sets a charging system DTC. Document download links> Charging System - Diagnosis and Testing - Principles of Operation - 2009 Edge Workshop.pdf Charging System - Diagnosis and Testing - Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Chart - 2009 Edge Workshop.pdf Charging System - Diagnosis and Testing - Symptom Chart - 2009 Edge Workshop.pdf Charging System - Diagnosis and Testing - Pinpoint Tests - 2009 Edge Workshop .pdf Good luck! Edited June 23, 2023 by Haz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 Fascinating! What would happen if you delete all the DTC's with an OBD2 scanner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 Clearing DTCs does not necessarily eliminate the underlying causes that trigger them, but can create a clean slate upon which your Edge's current problem can be written, via its DTC. The DTC or Symptom chart provides direction on the Pinpoint Test used to identify and resolve the issue. If you've not yet scanned your Edge, that is Step 1. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 Interesting. I'll connect my OBD2 Scanner and see what I get. I'll keep you posted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieHudson Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) Victor Charge the battery, check the voltage, then start the car. Check the voltage with a VOM while the car is running. It sounds like you have a bad alternator. Edited June 24, 2023 by 1004ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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