Soft Pedal

[GT86]

I have a 2013 Ford Edge Se with 180,000 miles. about a year ago the brake pedal started getting soft after having the front pads replaced by a shop.  I took back to them 3 times and they would bled the system and it would be good for awhile this get soft again after awhile. Until the last time and they they just saids that's just how ABS brakes are which I knew was BS and decided not to go back to them ever. So I took it to another shop they said the master cylinder was bad and leaking vacuum into the booster . So I replaced the master cylinder and bled the system. Brake pedal was still soft and goes to the floor. Took it to another shop thinking it needed to be pressure bled and a scan tool to bleed the abs they said that Master cylinder was bad. SO I had them change that one and had them bleed the system this time. Still soft pedal goes to the floor and they didn't charge me for the work they did and told me the ABS pump was bad. Took it to a 3rd mechanic he told me that master cylinder was bad and pouring brake fluid out the back because the last shop used too much pressure and blew the seal out the back of the cylinder which is probably why they didn't charge me. He has been working on the car for 3 weeks now has bled the system atleast 20 times, changed the rear brake pads as they were very low on the inside ( which no other shop informed me of ) changed the master cylinder twice and cleaned out the original ABS pump and even replaced it with one from a junk yard as a new one is $900 from Ford. The pedal is still soft and goes to the floor. Every shop keeps saying it's not the Brake booster as that would cause me to have a hard pedal not a soft one. The current mechanic says he's getting good pressure from every caliper when he bleeds the system except the passenger rear which doesn't have the same amount of pressure as the others. I'm at my wits end with this issue on this car up to now it's been a very good car and this is the only issue it's ever had but nobody seems to be able to fix this issue.  This issue has cost me almost $1,000 at this point and still not fixed. Please help this is my wife's daily driver and I need it to be safe for her.

[mrgrouper]

I would look closely at the rear calipers.  They might be partially siezed.

[GT86]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:07 AM, mrgrouper said:

I would look closely at the rear calipers.  They might be partially siezed.

 

 

You would think 3 mechanics would check to see if that was the case. Anyway changed the brake booster now and still have the same problem the mechanic even made sure there was no holes in the brake lines. The car stops the pedal is just soft and goes almost all the way to the floor. Don't know what else to do at this point.

[1004ron]

Firstly, keep it to this thread - stop cross-posting.

 

If air got into the system then you'll need equipment to bleed the ABS system - sounds like your 3 mechanics aren't suitably qualified and equipped, so consider taking it to the dealership or find a reputable independent shop.

 

Note, I haven't read your first post because the wall of text doesn't make for an easy read - it wouldn't take much to use a little punctuation.

[Tracylpatt]

On my 2013 Edge, I had a soft pedal last summer. It was similar to when the power booster went out 4 years earlier and it was covered under warranty then. I ended up replacing the power booster and master cylinder myself using new Motorcraft parts. I then had a Ford dealership bleed it properly. A couple of weeks later, the pedal was soft again. I bought a new Motorcraft HCU from Tascaparts.com for around $540.00 (MSRP $740.00). It took a couple of weeks for it to ship to my house, but was worth the savings to me. I had a Ford dealership replace the HCU and perform an ABS bleed. I picked the car up and the pedal was worse than before the HCU replacement. I spoke with the service department manager and he was surprised that the car was returned to me with a very soft pedal. He put one of his better mechanics on it to perform another ABS bleed. When I picked the car up, I wasn't 100% pleased with the feel of the brake pedal. Within 2 weeks, the pedal felt normal again to me. An ABS HCU is difficult to bleed after replacement. Several local mechanics didn't want to touch it and suggested the Ford dealership. Calling around to different Ford dealerships, I was quoted anywhere from 4 hours up to 8 hours of labor for replacement and bleeding. The Ford dealership that did mine quoted me 6 hours and did it in 5 hours. There was no charge to bleed the second time after I complained about the soft pedal after the HCU replacement and ABS bleed. If I had to guess, you might have to replace your HCU and have it properly bled by a qualified individual. Just my opinion. Good luck.

[enigma-2]

Another item to consider, mpre so in older cars, but ... have your mechanic look at the hoses. If the hose swells when the brakes are applied, a lot of the force is being disappapated in the hose.

 

On my car, had a similar issue. Finally took my car in and ordered new brakes, all around. 130k and back brakes still only 1/2 pads???? Pads, rotors, new fluid, master cylinder check, check hoses, abs for air and power brake vacuum unit. Rock solid brakes now. Turned out it was the back brakes seized on the pins. (Think that's what he found, there was several minor things found, but definitely back brakes was problem).

[Bnice]

I went through the booster, master cylinder and HCU. Really pisses me off that Ford never developed test methods to check these items in place. They go from least expensive to most on changing parts instead. Mine started with brakes going to the floor. Ford changed the booster (recall extended warranty) and brakes were semi locked on when I picked it up. I think the three block round trip back warped my rotors, but that’s another story. They did something and all seemed good for a few days. Then back to the brakes to the floor. They (Ford) went for the master cylinder next saying it could be it or HCU. When asked about test procedures to isolate issue I got a not any! That’s pitiful for a system that’s this expensive and number of units out there. Master cylinder did not work, HCU was next! Still did not work correct!  I read an article a mechanic had found adjusting the booster gap took care of a similar problem. Told the garage, they tried it and it has worked ever since. Still cost me over $2200 that’s with a free recalled booster! 

[tommyleeyyz]

For anyone that is looking through this thread, there actually is an official procedure to isolate the master cylinder for fault.  It's called "Brake Master Cylinder - Bypass Condition"

 

 1. Disconnect the brake tubes from the master cylinder.

 2. Plug the outlet ports of the master cylinder.

 3. Lightly apply the brakes and hold for 10 seconds. Release the brakes and then reapply with heavy force. If brake pedal height cannot be maintained, the brake master cylinder has an internal leak and a new brake master cylinder must be installed.

    

After reinstalling the brake tubes, bleeding must be performed.

[PepperoniStick]

I have a 2013 Ford Edge.  I am posting this just to add what I've been doing.   I got an OBDLink cable that connects to my PC via USB and connects to the OBD on the car.    I use Forscan software, and it gives you an option to bleed the ABS.    Whenever my pedal goes soft, I just run this routine.   Everything will work for months to a year.    Before I got this software, what I was doing would go to a parking lot and go into reverse and slam on the brakes to engage the ABS.    Both ways worked, but it was hard sometimes to get the ABS to engage.   The first time my brakes had problems it was winter with snowy roads so it was very easy to get it to trigger the ABS but in the summer wasn't as easy.   I've been doing this for a few years now.