[update/conclusion] White smoke on acceleration

[1004ron]

I'm sure that there's a notice from Ford posted to the forum that the spec has changed to the new Yellow type.

 

This is what's in my manual, but its been superseded.

 

[ben senise]

so apart from losing coolant, what other detrimental effects would this leak have? is this a critical problem or an annoyance. going to the dealer is a major PITA for me ideally i'd like to wait for the next service.

[1004ron]

Coolant loss - in my opinion is a critical problem which will only get worse and could leave you stranded and add to the repair build, or rejection of warranty if not addressed in a timely manner.

[1004ron]

Just checked my coolant level - its at or just a fraction above the MIN mark, which is where its been since I bought the car in March 2017.

 

 

[BillE]

5 hours ago, ben senise said:

so apart from losing coolant, what other detrimental effects would this leak have? is this a critical problem or an annoyance. going to the dealer is a major PITA for me ideally i'd like to wait for the next service.

I don't know if this was typical or a special case.  My daughter had a head gasket blow on a mustang abut 20 years ago.  The head gasket was a known problem for the 6 cylinder mustang  that year.  Unbelievable amount of smoke or steam from the exhaust with the check engine light coming on immediately.  The check engine light was an indication that  the  catalytic converter had gone bad.   The head gasket and catalytic converter were replaced under warranty.   I think I will give my dealer a call and schedule a visit after after Christmas, unless he says it can wait.  I will drive my 2019 Edge ST as little as possible in the meanwhile.

[kruzr1]

I have a 2019 ST with about 29000 miles.   I get the white smoke also but I'm thinking it's because of temperatures. Only ben in the 20-degree Fahrenheit range for highs lately which is what I contribute the white smoke to. I do not recall seeing the white smoke during the summer months?  Every other car I observe also has white smoke coming out the tailpipe. Some more than others depending on the vehicle. This is typical here.  My coolant level is about the same as 1004ron. Although it does change a little from summer to winter I've never had to add any yet. I'll just be keeping an eye on it and hope it doesn't amount to anything. I was planning on having the coolant changed out next spring to Fords newest coolant.  When I bought the ST I figured the 2.7 engine was a proven platform since it had been around several years. Hope it doesn't get added to Fords list of troubled engines. 

[JoeVic]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:23 AM, BillE said:

Thank you.  My 2019 owners manual calls out orange CVC-3DIL coolant, but the car has yellow coolant.  The 2020 owner manual calls out the VC-13DL-G yellow as you stated.  Ordered a couple gallons from Rock Auto. Thanks again.

 

I have a 2019 also with a 7-31-2019 build date.  I had an addendum in the owners manual regarding the upgraded coolant.

[JoeVic]

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants-qa.com/quickref/coolantsEN.pdf

 

Motorcraft's latest coolants and applications

[bofus]

Dropped off the Edge tonight for evaluation tomorrow. The service tech said there are no loaners at the moment and do I need anything should this go "long term". I just said that if it's a week, no problem. If it's a month, then we need to find something. He immediately put me on the waiting list. He also said that if it is something with the engine, they might replace the entire engine! It depends on what they find and what Ford says to do. It could be a blown head gasket, or it might be a cracked block. It all depends on what they find. Or...maybe there is no problem and it's just a stuck PCV valve or something else. They said they'd check stuff out tomorrow and let me know how they plan to proceed. I goosed it a few times on the drive to the dealer (it's been parked since I saw all the smoke) and it still has a "Spy Hunter" mode.

 

[bofus]

Got the car back today from the dealer. The tech ran a coolant leak down test and found no issues. They found no oil in the coolant nor any signs of combustion gas in the coolant. A driving test also showed nothing abnormal, even at wide open throttle. I have been instructed to continue to monitor coolant levels and to let them know if it drops. I'm not supposed to add coolant.

 

I drove it back from the dealer and had no smoke. It was maybe 23 degrees around here today and I'm wondering if that's in play? Even after a freeway drive home, I opened the hood (aka: bonnet) and the upper radiator hose was barely NOT cold...I wouldn't even call it warm, let alone hot. Coolant level was spot on. I'm wondering if the engine has to get warmer for this to happen, possibly enough such that the system is pressurized. It warms up here starting on Saturday and I have a fair bit of driving to do. We'll see how it goes. I'm not sure how/why the temps would matter, offhand.

[akirby]

Could have just been temporary excessive moisture in the exhaust system.

[1004ron]

On 12/15/2022 at 6:16 PM, bofus said:

 I'm about a pint low on coolant in the reservoir. So, I think I'm burning coolant.

The key is to monitor your coolant and oil level, and if there's no drop in either of those then its most likely climatic conditions causing water vapor from the exhaust.

[ben senise]

7 hours ago, 1004ron said:

The key is to monitor your coolant and oil level, and if there's no drop in either of those then its most likely climatic conditions causing water vapor from the exhaust.

 

i think that this is the approach that i will take for the moment.

[bofus]

I topped up the coolant just after getting the car last month. I put about 300 miles on it after topping up the coolant and saw the smoke and then found coolant was down to the MIN line. So, I THINK I was using coolant. I'll continue to monitor and report back if anything changes. Having both smoke and a loss of coolant did seem to warrant a trip to the dealer while still under warranty. It also documents that there may have been an issue whilst under warranty.

[Drolly95]

I have been following this thread since last week because I too have noticed the mystery "White Smoke" under heavy acceleration on my 18 Sport. Here in Wisconsin it has been bitterly cold the past week until today where we saw temps in the upper 30s. Today with the warmer temps, the smoke was gone. Will continue to monitor if it comes and goes as the temps fluctuate. 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

check to see if this tsb applies to you

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zcNjezDAfMkX_jzC9PJC1niHgpLhmTEA/view?usp=share_link

[bofus]

My build date is outside that TSB, mine shows a build date of 5/18.

[ben senise]

8 hours ago, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

check to see if this tsb applies to you

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zcNjezDAfMkX_jzC9PJC1niHgpLhmTEA/view?usp=share_link

 

thanks!

mine is a 2020 built late 2019, november IIRC.

 

[ben senise]

thought i'd update this post with my latest info and conclusions/hypothesis.

 

i was never very convinced by the leaking head gasket idea. i didn't have oil in the water or water in the oil. it was clearly water vapor as i noticed it fog up the outside of the rear window like a bathroom mirror after a hot shower only that it cleared two seconds after i took my foot off the gas.

 

i started looking at the turbo boost gauge and there was a direct correlation between boost and white smoke. some here suggested water post-combustion but i started thinking that it was possibly pre-combustion, in the turbo or intake somewhere.

 

so i wound out the engine, red-lining it, a few times in a row. watching the boost to to max. after a few runs like this, there was no more smoke. even after the car sat overnight in my garage, still no smoke the next day on WOT. I've driven it a few times since and still no more smoke.

 

it seems to me that there was water somewhere in the intake and that winding it out a few times cleared it. it would be interesting if anyone else with the same symptoms tried this and what results they got.

 

[EddieHudson]

Thanks for the update. I was wondering if it could be water in the gas?

Edited January 15, 2023 by 1004ron

[ben senise]

8 hours ago, EddieHudson said:

Thanks for the update. I was wondering if it could be water in the gas?

 

i doubt it for a couple of reasons; first, why would i get smoke on WOT but not medium throttle, and second, the tank had the same gas in it before and after my winding it out a few times.

[Odrapnew]

I didn't review this full thread, but was there any mention of water in the intercooler?

I believe F150's had an issue with condensation buildup in the intercooler and when one would run it hard (WOT), it could suck in a bunch of water and caused issues.

Maybe this is similar with condensation/water in the intercooler, but not enough to cause engine issues?

Just a thought.

 

On the other side (exhaust), condensation/water buildup in the exhaust system sounds reasonable as well.

A long drive at highway speeds might not be enough to heat up the full exhaust system, so water builds up and doesn't 'boil off' until you really get on the throttle.

Just another thought.

[ben senise]

1 hour ago, Odrapnew said:

I didn't review this full thread, but was there any mention of water in the intercooler?

I believe F150's had an issue with condensation buildup in the intercooler and when one would run it hard (WOT), it could suck in a bunch of water and caused issues.

Maybe this is similar with condensation/water in the intercooler, but not enough to cause engine issues?

Just a thought.

 

On the other side (exhaust), condensation/water buildup in the exhaust system sounds reasonable as well.

A long drive at highway speeds might not be enough to heat up the full exhaust system, so water builds up and doesn't 'boil off' until you really get on the throttle.

Just another thought.

 

i don't know that much about turbos but water in the intercooler sounds like a reasonable assumption and fits in with my deductive reasoning about the water being pre-combustion.

 

water being post-combustion, e.g. exhaust, doesn't really fit the evidence since i believe that air flow should push out any water. if i accelerated slowly and keep the gear selection in manual so i could rev the engine up in 2nd or 3rd, i wouldn't get the smoke. i would only see smoke when i put my foot to the floor. the latest thing i did was watch the turbo boost gauge. i always thought that the turbos would spin faster as the engine RPM rose. i was very surprised to see that i could have the engine between 5 and 6k RPM the the boost was at zero if i was light on the pedal. OTOH, i could get more boost at 2k RPM by stomping on it.

 

i need to find out what makes the turbos spin. i always thought that the exhaust just passed through the turbo making it spin. more exhaust, faster spin, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Odrapnew]

47 minutes ago, ben senise said:

 

i don't know that much about turbos but water in the intercooler sounds like a reasonable assumption and fits in with my deductive reasoning about the water being pre-combustion.

 

water being post-combustion, e.g. exhaust, doesn't really fit the evidence since i believe that air flow should push out any water. if i accelerated slowly and keep the gear selection in manual so i could rev the engine up in 2nd or 3rd, i wouldn't get the smoke. i would only see smoke when i put my foot to the floor. the latest thing i did was watch the turbo boost gauge. i always thought that the turbos would spin faster as the engine RPM rose. i was very surprised to see that i could have the engine between 5 and 6k RPM the the boost was at zero if i was light on the pedal. OTOH, i could get more boost at 2k RPM by stomping on it.

 

i need to find out what makes the turbos spin. i always thought that the exhaust just passed through the turbo making it spin. more exhaust, faster spin, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

There's actually quite a bit that goes into how much boost you see inside the engine (manifold).

You can probably find an informative video on Youtube....much quicker and more detail than I have time to provide (sorry).

 

It's possible that there's a point in the exhaust that does not get hot under light loads and condensation/water collects.

When you get it under heavier load, that point in the exhaust heats up and boils off the condensation.

 

Or another possibility is that the condensation condenses inside the exhaust before it exits the tail pipe under light throttle so instead of getting steam, it flows out as water.

When you accelerate hard, the steam can make it out the tail pipe.

 

Again, just throwing out ideas. It's been a long time since my thermodynamics class.