Stan Bryant Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Can anyone tell me if the fuel pump has been redesigned since the '08-'09 models (seems those are the ones most people had whining fuel pumps on from reading on the web). Just trying to figure if this could be a potential issue going forward with my '12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 FWIW, I can assure you, Todd is with Ford and has been consistently helpful in connecting customers to solutions. So, by all means, take advantage of his offer of assistance Thank you for your support, WWWPerfA_ZN0W! I appreciate your help, and would be very happy if Ford were actually looking into this problem. Can you provide an email address or contact number or something to assure me that you are actually from Ford, and not somebody impersonating a Ford representative? I'm indeed an official representative with Ford. In fact, I'm celebrating my 1-year anniversary with the company today. <-- Just going to give myself a round of applause. Todd maybe you can answer a simple question for us all. How is it that ford can put out a product or perhaps products these day that make such annoying noises when they've not done this in the past. Its really quite sad that they have to be well aware of these issues but seemingly refuse to fix them...but i'm sure that comes down to dollars and cents in recalls. Unfortunately, I'm unable to answer this question directly, as I only deal with individual vehicle concerns. It's outside of my scope to comment on our entire line of vehicles. I do know that our innovators and engineers work to bring you the safest, most efficient vehicle. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FischerAG Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Thank you for your support, WWWPerfA_ZN0W! I'm indeed an official representative with Ford. In fact, I'm celebrating my 1-year anniversary with the company today. <-- Just going to give myself a round of applause. Unfortunately, I'm unable to answer this question directly, as I only deal with individual vehicle concerns. It's outside of my scope to comment on our entire line of vehicles. I do know that our innovators and engineers work to bring you the safest, most efficient vehicle. Todd Haha, Todd, right on, thanks for your response. And congratulations on your 1-year anniversary!! FWIW, I can assure you, Todd is with Ford and has been consistently helpful in connecting customers to solutions. So, by all means, take advantage of his offer of assistance Thanks Perfa, for the confirmation! You can never be too safe on the 'ol interwebs. ;-) Thank you for the update. Please let me know when the repair is completed. Hi FischerAG, Have you considered bringing your Edge into a different dealership for another opinion? I'd be happy to locate one and schedule an appointment for you. Todd Todd, sure, I guess it couldn't hurt to have another dealer look at it. Well, I guess it could hurt in the amount of lost time and money I spend to have someone take a look, but that's besides the point. Yes, if you'd like to locate one and schedule an appointment, I'll take you up on your offer. Thank you! I went to the dealer in Northampton, MA, 01060. Whatever other dealer is closest to 01060 would work for me. How to proceed? -Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Haha, Todd, right on, thanks for your response. And congratulations on your 1-year anniversary!! Todd, sure, I guess it couldn't hurt to have another dealer look at it. Well, I guess it could hurt in the amount of lost time and money I spend to have someone take a look, but that's besides the point. Yes, if you'd like to locate one and schedule an appointment, I'll take you up on your offer. Thank you! I went to the dealer in Northampton, MA, 01060. Whatever other dealer is closest to 01060 would work for me. Thank you for the well wishes, FischerAG. In order for me to facilitate the creation of an appointment for you, I'll need you to PM your full name, VIN, best daytime phone number and preferred appointment time. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Well just picked up my edge tonight finally after being at the dealer ALL WEEK waiting on the body control module to come in which is what they diagnosed as the cause of the 'dog whistle' sound. NO CHANGE. Started it up and checked to see if I heard anything and nothing (same as before)...but when I drove it home and parked it...bring on the noise. Same exact noise as prior to going into dealer and at the same time (after being driven). Startup and idle wont cause the noise, only after being driven. What a joke. I will be calling the dealership I purchased it from tomorrow morning and we'll see what happens Edited March 29, 2014 by Stan Bryant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 It could be fuel pump or subwoofer whine (if it seems to be coming from the back of the vehicle) or gear whine (front OR back). Do you have AWD? Check all fluid levels, including trans, PTU and RDU. Refill/replace fluids as needed. Do you drive with your windows down at all? Does the intensity of the sound change when you do so? Sometimes there can be a shrill whistling sound from the outside mirror(s). If you can put a video or audio file for us, that might help us isolate the possible cause(s) as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) It is not coming from the back and its such a hard noise to pinpoint because of the frequency but its definitely from the front or middle of the car. They supposedly used a stethescope in the shop to narrow it down to the bcm. Then they supposedly replaced it, telling me that it wasnt shutting off when the key was turned off and thats where the noise was coming from. In the vid u can hear the whistle clearly and even now its been a couple hours since i've been home and i'd bet its still going. It lasted for probably 2-3 hrs before I took it to the shop this week. trim.7D9E2C65-F48C-4C88-B490-0DDB2B1262C7.MOV Edited March 29, 2014 by Stan Bryant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 That is definitely a most annoying sound. I assume it gets louder if you open the hood? It's almost as if the fuel pump doesn't stop priming. Try turning the Ignition Switch to RUN (don't start), then back to OFF and take the key back out. Does the noise still continue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Ok so this just keeps getting better. Called the dealer this morning and raised civilized hell. The manager proceeds to ask me what would I like my solution to be...really? So after picking up the truck last night and driving it home at which time I made the posted video above, the truck made the same noise that continued on after it was shut off. This morning after getting off the phone with the dealer I went out to document all noises properly for myself and this is what happened... 1. Started the truck and a second or two after being started at idle I opened the door and heard the noise (high pitched whistle). 2. Shut off truck and noise stopped (as I had stated before had to be driven to continue after shut off). 3. Took the truck around my neighborhood (not letting it warm up to temp) and parked it again...no noise after shutoff. About 1/4 mile. 4. Cycled key on and off several times, as you would to prime your fuel system or suck every drop out of your tank when low on gas. No noise. 5. Drove truck about 7 miles around town to let it come up to and operate at temp and returned home and parked it, no noise after shutoff. Started a few times for 10-20 secs and u can always hear the whistle while its running which now might sway me to believe in the fuel pump being that culprit. Also I could hear the pitch of the whine change as I put load on and off the engine so I would definitely agree with fuel pum being the source of the 'whistle while vehicle is running' (which is certainly horrible) but I guess ford's stance is this is normal. Normal trash...i digress....... 6. Stroke of luck my son wanted cereal and we had no milk so I went around the corner to the gas station (about 1 mile round trip, if that) and got milk. Returned home and parked it and she's currently sitting in the driveway singing ever since. Update literally just went out to do another 15 min check and it quit. So it went for 1 hr this time. I had timed it before taking it to delaer once, and it went at least 2 hrs but I had stopped checking, so I guess I should smile due to this improvement. The dealer has guys en route to pick it up and take it to their dealership. Ford is seriously working on losing a customer here. I have owned 4 fords in my life and dont think i'll ever buy another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Basically the fuel pump issue with the whining I would agree with but the noise continuing after shut off not so sure. If it is the fuel pump constantly running I have never in my life heard a fuel pump hit that particular frequency. Also, you would think you would hear the the pump struggling at some point due to the system being pressurized being that there are no fuel leaks or relief valves that im aware of, but the high pitch whine is consistent after shutoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Well, aside from the fuel pump, I would check the alternator (full diagnostic) & grounds. A fried diode might cause a whine even with ignition turned off. If you had buzzing, i would have suspected fuel injectors/connectors or ignition coils. Edited March 29, 2014 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) I understand how the diodes inside, if fried could allow reverse current flow therefor allowing something to remain powered. However A. I dont have the truck anymore its at the dealer and B. If it were as simple as a diode it would always remain on until the battery saver kicked in on the truck and maybe even beyond that. In this situation what I learned this morning is that it seems relative to how long u operate the vehicle as to how long it will remain squealing after u park. After the 20 min drive home from dealer last night I know it went longer than an hour as I quit going outside after that. After my roughly 8 miles this morning it went on for an hour pretty much exactly. I then drove it for about 4 miles so it would be squealing when they got here to pick it up and it actually stopped while we were all standing there listening to i...so it only went for about 10-15 mins that time. I dont know if this is a heat related issue of some sort that the longer its operated the warmer something gets and the longer it stays powered and squeals. Edited March 29, 2014 by Stan Bryant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ok so this just keeps getting better. Called the dealer this morning and raised civilized hell. The manager proceeds to ask me what would I like my solution to be...really? The dealer has guys en route to pick it up and take it to their dealership. Ford is seriously working on losing a customer here. I have owned 4 fords in my life and dont think i'll ever buy another. Please keep me updated, Stan Bryant, and let me know if you have questions. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Please keep me updated, Stan Bryant, and let me know if you have questions. Thanks I dont really have any questions at this time. The dealer called me this morning and said they found my truck has a bad rear wheel bearing. Yet another thing that makes me laugh. This was a cpo vehicle that hasnt even seen 200 miles since I had it and it miraculously has a bad wheel bearing. Then the lady tells me they heard the noise that I was talking about but they havent been able to replicate it. I told her they need to drive it and put even more miles on it and i'll just make the payments. This is such a f@cking joke anymore. I really hope they return it without solving the problem which im 99.9% sure they will. That'll be trip #2 to the dealer..only 2 more to go after that and im done with ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Thanks I dont really have any questions at this time. The dealer called me this morning and said they found my truck has a bad rear wheel bearing. Yet another thing that makes me laugh. This was a cpo vehicle that hasnt even seen 200 miles since I had it and it miraculously has a bad wheel bearing. Then the lady tells me they heard the noise that I was talking about but they havent been able to replicate it. I told her they need to drive it and put even more miles on it and i'll just make the payments. This is such a f@cking joke anymore. I really hope they return it without solving the problem which im 99.9% sure they will. That'll be trip #2 to the dealer..only 2 more to go after that and im done with ford. I understand your frustrations. Please keep me updated. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autom8r Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 My two cents..... +1 for the fuel pump. It may be running because your FI pressure switch is faulty, the fuel distribution rail serving the injectors is not maintaining pressure [leaking], or the dump valve [return to tank] may be struck open. Mine makes the same noise, though not as pronounced at the same distance. Cold air is denser than warm air so sound travels further? It is not a wheel bearing. Your car needs to be moving for it to be a wheel bearing. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) My two cents..... +1 for the fuel pump. It may be running because your FI pressure switch is faulty, the fuel distribution rail serving the injectors is not maintaining pressure [leaking], or the dump valve [return to tank] may be struck open. Mine makes the same noise, though not as pronounced at the same distance. Cold air is denser than warm air so sound travels further? It is not a wheel bearing. Your car needs to be moving for it to be a wheel bearing. Good luck. Yeah we know its not a wheel bearing making that noise and I didnt mean to imply that in my post cuz the lady that called me wasnt trying to make that connection either. She just said that they found a bad wheel bearing and they heard the noise I had been referring to but have not been able to reproduce the sound since. I know why they havent though...they've had it sitting in their bay since saturday and have not moved it since most likely. The wheel bearing in my opinion is most likely fine but they want to change out something to make me feel like they did something. At this point its all good....2 more trips to the dealer and its a wrap. I like the thought process on the dump valve though if it is indeed the fuel pump making the noise. Makes perfect sense. Edited April 1, 2014 by Stan Bryant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autom8r Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Stan: After cracking open the service manual last night, I discovered there is no fuel dump valve on this fuel injection system. There is a check valve in the fuel line to the engine, but no fuel return line and over pressure control. I could see a situation where the pump does not adequately pressurize the fuel line within a specific time interval causing it to run longer than normal after the engine is turned off. The design calls for the FI system to be pressurized at all times, even when the engine is off. The check valve maintains the pressure in the system after the engine and fuel pump are turned off. As to why Ford designed a system that whines at the lower threshold of a dog's hearing is beyond me. Good luck with your pursuit for the answer. My guess is that the design was "good enough" to some engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Stan: After cracking open the service manual last night, I discovered there is no fuel dump valve on this fuel injection system. There is a check valve in the fuel line to the engine, but no fuel return line and over pressure control. I could see a situation where the pump does not adequately pressurize the fuel line within a specific time interval causing it to run longer than normal after the engine is turned off. The design calls for the FI system to be pressurized at all times, even when the engine is off. The check valve maintains the pressure in the system after the engine and fuel pump are turned off. As to why Ford designed a system that whines at the lower threshold of a dog's hearing is beyond me. Good luck with your pursuit for the answer. My guess is that the design was "good enough" to some engineer. Ok thanks for the info but let me ask you this...If the system only has a check valve do you think its possible that that check valve could be worn/defective and remaining open causing the fuel pump to run for hours (assuming that it is indeed the fuel pump making the sound after shutoff)? So then my next question is what do u think makes it quit squealing whenever it decides to quit. If a spring in the valve is broken or whatever what then allows the valve to hold at some point. If it were like a viscous / thermal clutch setup or something on the check valve assembly..then what you say could make sense and coincide with what I said as it seems like a issue related to how long the vehicle is operated and potential heat, but I certainly dont see that being the case. I am certainly not up to par on ford designs or any manuf designs but I just dont see how this scenario works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Just spoke to the dealer and I was told the wheel bearing has been replaced (hooray, im jumping for joy) and as far as the whine..im told it is a solenoid staying on inside the trans (so now we're back to it being inside the trans) and they are waiting to hear from ford hotline on how to proceed...yawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Just spoke to the dealer and I was told the wheel bearing has been replaced (hooray, im jumping for joy) and as far as the whine..im told it is a solenoid staying on inside the trans (so now we're back to it being inside the trans) and they are waiting to hear from ford hotline on how to proceed...yawn Thanks for the update! Keep me posted. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Got a phone call... They have ordered a gear shift lever and are expecting it thursday. I didnt really even go into detail with the service guy who called as I am just tired of the whole situation but basically they are saying the gear shift lever is defective (I guess) and its causing the solenoid to stay on after the car is parked. We'll see.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Hey autom8r, If u still have the service manual available and wouldnt mind looking...is this shift lever just a mechanical assembly or are there some electical parts to it. I figure the shift lever is a mechanical lever with circuitry inside when u choose a gear that then energizes a circuit to the solenoid...is this correct or could you educate me otherwise. Im just trying to understand the likelihood of this fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autom8r Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Stan: It's a little of both. There is a mechanical cable that goes to the transmission. The other end operates the gear selector lever on the transmission housing. There is wiring also, to tell the PCM that the lever is not in park and enable the software in the PCM to stage up and down the gear selection solenoids [i presume only if the engine is running since the PCM would know this too]. There are several solenoids in the transmission all controlled by the PCM [there are 6 forward speeds and reverse]. I would expect the solenoids to make a clicking or buzzing noise but not a whine. I've attached the relevant sections of the manual for your perusal. Good luck. Ford Edge Shifter Wiring.pdf Ford Edge Shift Lever.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Bryant Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Thanks autom8r. I too agree with solenoids not whining but this is what the dealer is claiming but they can throw all the parts they desire at it until trip #4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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