68lemans462 Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) Drivers seat is the problem. Its throwing a code B272C-60. Forscan shows the seat back bottom heating up but the seat back doesnt go up in temp. When I press button for cooled seat, I do not hear the fan kick on. I suspect a potential fan failure but this doesnt explain why the seat back doesnt heat up?? Edited April 26, 2022 by 68lemans462 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr061 Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 Both heat and cooling run the fan. There are no heat mats in the seat. It is a TED unit. What is a Ted in a heated seat? The thermal electric device (TED) is a heat exchanger that has a function to heat or cool the air flow from the climate-controlled seat blower motor. By changing the direction of the current from the power supply, the device takes or gives heat and adjusts the heat exchange process depending on voltage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) The following description is from the 2016 Edge Workshop Manual, edited to provide specifics on climate controlled seats, followed by an explanation of the DTC your Edge is exhibiting... Climate Controlled Seats This system allows on-demand, independent, electrical heating/cooling of each front seat. The climate controlled seat system consists of the following components: Blower motor, located within each front seat cushion and backrest Air filter, integrated to each blower motor assembly (not serviceable) Climate-controlled seat buttons, located on the FDIM (touchscreen) FCIM SCME , mounted to the bottom of the front passenger seat Cushion and backrest manifolds Cushion and backrest foam pads Cushion and backrest trim covers Climate Controlled Seat Operation The driver and passenger climate controlled seat buttons are selected from the FCIM and FDIM (touchscreen). The climate controlled seat system functions independently from the vehicle's climate control system. The seat cushion and backrest are each equipped with a blower motor assembly. As cabin air is drawn through each blower motor, a Thermo-Electric Device (TED) heats or cools the air, which is then directed into the foam pad where it is distributed along the surface of the cushion and backrest of the seat. Once the system is activated, the SCME uses a set of flexible algorithms to control the heating/cooling modes and the blower speed dependant on the commanded climate controlled seat settings. The SCME monitors seat cushion temperature while it supplies voltage and ground to both blower motors. The SCME also supplies a variable voltage signal to control the blower speed. Cabin air enters the blower through an integrated filter attached to the blower motor housing. Heated or cooled air exits the blower motor and flows through the foam pad. Climate Controlled Seat Cooling Characteristics In cool mode, the blower motors can remove up to 8° C (14° F) from the ambient air temperature entering the system. The system control settings are based on the 3 indicators next to each climate controlled seat cool switch button on the touchscreen. The first setting is HIGH (3 indicators), the second setting is MED (2 indicators) and the third is LOW (1 indicator) then OFF (no indicators). When cooling, the SCME maintains a constant blower motor speed and a constant Thermo-Electric Device (TED) supply voltage (duty cycle is determined by the switch setting) in COOL mode. Climate Controlled Seat Cooling Characteristics In cool mode, the blower motors can remove up to 8° C (14° F) from the ambient air temperature entering the system. The system control settings are based on the 3 indicators next to each climate controlled seat cool switch button on the touchscreen. The first setting is HIGH (3 indicators), the second setting is MED (2 indicators) and the third is LOW (1 indicator) then OFF (no indicators). When cooling, the SCME maintains a constant blower motor speed and a constant Thermo-Electric Device (TED) supply voltage (duty cycle is determined by the switch setting) in COOL mode. Climate Controlled Seat Recovery Mode NOTE: The presence of overtemperature faults (Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) B2729, B2730, B272A and B272B) can be induced by incorrectly operating the climate controlled seat system after an initial heat setting has been attained. If a heat setting is repeatedly turned off and on in an attempt to increase the seat temperature or repeatedly toggled between heat and cool modes, an overtemperature condition can result and the Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) may be set. If the temperature of one of the blower motors rises above 110° C (229.8° F) in the heat mode or 65° C (148.9° F) in the cool mode for more than 4 seconds, the SCME records an overtemperature DTC , removes voltage from the Thermo-Electric Devices (TEDs) (part of the blower motor assembly) and goes into recovery mode (blower only) for 30 seconds to cool down the blower motor. The same occurs if a temperature difference of 60° C (108° F) or greater is detected between the backrest and cushion blower motors on either front seat. The SCME continues to monitor the blower motors while in recovery mode. If the temperature of the Thermo-Electric Devices (TEDs) do not drop to 105° C (220.8° F) in the heat mode or 60° C (139.9° F) in the cool mode after 30 seconds, the system continues to cool the blower motors in recovery mode for up to 5 minutes. If the Thermo-Electric Devices (TEDs) cool down after 30 seconds, but before 5 minutes (checked at 4 second intervals), the system is operating normally. An overtemperature DTC is still recorded even if the system recovers and is operating normally. This is more likely to occur during extreme cabin temperatures with significant seat back sun load. If the system does not recover within 30 seconds in heat mode or within 5 minutes in cool mode, the SCME disables that seat (fault mode) and remains off until the ignition is cycled. Also, if the SCME detects a temperature differential fault twice during the same ignition cycle, the SCME disables the seat. When a fault causes a shutdown, the climate controlled seat indicators turn off and that seat is not operational until the next ignition cycle. Component Description FDIM The FDIM (touchscreen) contains the heated seat (or climate controlled seat) buttons. FCIM The FCIM contains the heated seat (or climate controlled seat) buttons. If equipped with heated seats, the FCIM monitors the seat cushion temperature sensor and supplies heater current to the seat cushion and backrest heater mats until the desired setpoint temperature is reached. Once the setpoint temperature is reached, the FCIM cycles the heater circuits on/off as required to maintain the setpoint temperature. PMI is required when a new FCIM is installed. Heater Mat If equipped with heated seats, the cushion heater mats are each equipped with a temperature sensor (thermistor) which provides feedback to the FCIM . The cushion and backrest heater mats are connected in series. SCME If equipped with climate controlled seats, the SCME controls the operation of the climate controlled seat system. PMI is required when a new SCME is installed. Blower Motor If equipped with climate controlled seats, the seat cushion and backrest are each equipped with a blower motor assembly (Thermo-Electric Device (TED) and fan motor, serviced as an assembly). There is also a temperature sensor (thermistor) in each blower motor which provides feedback to the SCME . The blower motor assembly is controlled by the SCME . +++++++++ DTC B272C Normal Operation and Fault Conditions The SCME is supplied voltage at all times, but the climate controlled seat system only operates with the engine running. The system can be operated with the ignition ON engine OFF by using a scan tool to bypass the climate controlled seat buttons on the touchscreen interface. When commanding a heat or cool mode operation in this manner, the climate controlled seat system only operates in 15 second intervals. Both voltage supply circuits are spliced together internal to the SCME , so if one circuit becomes open, both seats can still be operated. However, if a fault occurs setting a DTC specific to either climate controlled seat, only the affected seat is disabled by the SCME . Cabin air is drawn through and distributed to each of the blower motors located in the seat cushion and backrest. The blower motors then heat or cool the air. The air is then directed into the foam pad where it is distributed along the surface of the cushion and backrest of the seat. Once the system is activated, the SCME uses a set of flexible algorithms to control the heating/cooling modes and the blower speed dependent on the commanded climate controlled seat settings. A differential fault occurs when the cushion and backrest blower motors on an affected seat are reporting very different temperatures to the SCME . This may result from an airflow restriction or a circuit fault of either blower motor area. If a blower motor is clear of obstruction and is operational, check the other blower motor and circuitry on the seat. It is important to note that a blower motor with a higher temperature may be operating correctly and not the area of concern. The other blower motor may be indicating a much lower temperature, causing the DTC to set. DTC Fault Trigger Conditions DTC Description Fault Trigger Conditions B272C Driver Differential Temperature Fault If there is a temperature differential between the driver backrest and cushion blower motor of 60° C (108° F) or more for more than 4 seconds, the blower motor is disconnected or the duct is blocked, this DTC sets. When this happens the first time in a key cycle, the SCME puts the driver seat system into recovery mode (see principles of operation). If the system is able to recover, it functions normally. If the system is able to recover and it occurs a second time in the same key cycle, the SCME shuts down the driver seat system. Possible Causes Wiring, terminals or connectors Restricted backrest blower motor filter Crushed or restricted backrest foam pad Cushion or backrest blower motor SCME ++++++++++ You may want to use Forscan to perform a self-test of the SCME module, to see if the driver's seat climate control function is restored, or if any different DTCs are set. Good luck! Edited April 27, 2022 by Haz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68lemans462 Posted October 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 On 4/26/2022 at 6:34 PM, Haz said: The following description is from the 2016 Edge Workshop Manual, edited to provide specifics on climate controlled seats, followed by an explanation of the DTC your Edge is exhibiting... Climate Controlled Seats This system allows on-demand, independent, electrical heating/cooling of each front seat. The climate controlled seat system consists of the following components: Blower motor, located within each front seat cushion and backrest Air filter, integrated to each blower motor assembly (not serviceable) Climate-controlled seat buttons, located on the FDIM (touchscreen) FCIM SCME , mounted to the bottom of the front passenger seat Cushion and backrest manifolds Cushion and backrest foam pads Cushion and backrest trim covers Climate Controlled Seat Operation The driver and passenger climate controlled seat buttons are selected from the FCIM and FDIM (touchscreen). The climate controlled seat system functions independently from the vehicle's climate control system. The seat cushion and backrest are each equipped with a blower motor assembly. As cabin air is drawn through each blower motor, a Thermo-Electric Device (TED) heats or cools the air, which is then directed into the foam pad where it is distributed along the surface of the cushion and backrest of the seat. Once the system is activated, the SCME uses a set of flexible algorithms to control the heating/cooling modes and the blower speed dependant on the commanded climate controlled seat settings. The SCME monitors seat cushion temperature while it supplies voltage and ground to both blower motors. The SCME also supplies a variable voltage signal to control the blower speed. Cabin air enters the blower through an integrated filter attached to the blower motor housing. Heated or cooled air exits the blower motor and flows through the foam pad. Climate Controlled Seat Cooling Characteristics In cool mode, the blower motors can remove up to 8° C (14° F) from the ambient air temperature entering the system. The system control settings are based on the 3 indicators next to each climate controlled seat cool switch button on the touchscreen. The first setting is HIGH (3 indicators), the second setting is MED (2 indicators) and the third is LOW (1 indicator) then OFF (no indicators). When cooling, the SCME maintains a constant blower motor speed and a constant Thermo-Electric Device (TED) supply voltage (duty cycle is determined by the switch setting) in COOL mode. Climate Controlled Seat Cooling Characteristics In cool mode, the blower motors can remove up to 8° C (14° F) from the ambient air temperature entering the system. The system control settings are based on the 3 indicators next to each climate controlled seat cool switch button on the touchscreen. The first setting is HIGH (3 indicators), the second setting is MED (2 indicators) and the third is LOW (1 indicator) then OFF (no indicators). When cooling, the SCME maintains a constant blower motor speed and a constant Thermo-Electric Device (TED) supply voltage (duty cycle is determined by the switch setting) in COOL mode. Climate Controlled Seat Recovery Mode NOTE: The presence of overtemperature faults (Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) B2729, B2730, B272A and B272B) can be induced by incorrectly operating the climate controlled seat system after an initial heat setting has been attained. If a heat setting is repeatedly turned off and on in an attempt to increase the seat temperature or repeatedly toggled between heat and cool modes, an overtemperature condition can result and the Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) may be set. If the temperature of one of the blower motors rises above 110° C (229.8° F) in the heat mode or 65° C (148.9° F) in the cool mode for more than 4 seconds, the SCME records an overtemperature DTC , removes voltage from the Thermo-Electric Devices (TEDs) (part of the blower motor assembly) and goes into recovery mode (blower only) for 30 seconds to cool down the blower motor. The same occurs if a temperature difference of 60° C (108° F) or greater is detected between the backrest and cushion blower motors on either front seat. The SCME continues to monitor the blower motors while in recovery mode. If the temperature of the Thermo-Electric Devices (TEDs) do not drop to 105° C (220.8° F) in the heat mode or 60° C (139.9° F) in the cool mode after 30 seconds, the system continues to cool the blower motors in recovery mode for up to 5 minutes. If the Thermo-Electric Devices (TEDs) cool down after 30 seconds, but before 5 minutes (checked at 4 second intervals), the system is operating normally. An overtemperature DTC is still recorded even if the system recovers and is operating normally. This is more likely to occur during extreme cabin temperatures with significant seat back sun load. If the system does not recover within 30 seconds in heat mode or within 5 minutes in cool mode, the SCME disables that seat (fault mode) and remains off until the ignition is cycled. Also, if the SCME detects a temperature differential fault twice during the same ignition cycle, the SCME disables the seat. When a fault causes a shutdown, the climate controlled seat indicators turn off and that seat is not operational until the next ignition cycle. Component Description FDIM The FDIM (touchscreen) contains the heated seat (or climate controlled seat) buttons. FCIM The FCIM contains the heated seat (or climate controlled seat) buttons. If equipped with heated seats, the FCIM monitors the seat cushion temperature sensor and supplies heater current to the seat cushion and backrest heater mats until the desired setpoint temperature is reached. Once the setpoint temperature is reached, the FCIM cycles the heater circuits on/off as required to maintain the setpoint temperature. PMI is required when a new FCIM is installed. Heater Mat If equipped with heated seats, the cushion heater mats are each equipped with a temperature sensor (thermistor) which provides feedback to the FCIM . The cushion and backrest heater mats are connected in series. SCME If equipped with climate controlled seats, the SCME controls the operation of the climate controlled seat system. PMI is required when a new SCME is installed. Blower Motor If equipped with climate controlled seats, the seat cushion and backrest are each equipped with a blower motor assembly (Thermo-Electric Device (TED) and fan motor, serviced as an assembly). There is also a temperature sensor (thermistor) in each blower motor which provides feedback to the SCME . The blower motor assembly is controlled by the SCME . +++++++++ DTC B272C Normal Operation and Fault Conditions The SCME is supplied voltage at all times, but the climate controlled seat system only operates with the engine running. The system can be operated with the ignition ON engine OFF by using a scan tool to bypass the climate controlled seat buttons on the touchscreen interface. When commanding a heat or cool mode operation in this manner, the climate controlled seat system only operates in 15 second intervals. Both voltage supply circuits are spliced together internal to the SCME , so if one circuit becomes open, both seats can still be operated. However, if a fault occurs setting a DTC specific to either climate controlled seat, only the affected seat is disabled by the SCME . Cabin air is drawn through and distributed to each of the blower motors located in the seat cushion and backrest. The blower motors then heat or cool the air. The air is then directed into the foam pad where it is distributed along the surface of the cushion and backrest of the seat. Once the system is activated, the SCME uses a set of flexible algorithms to control the heating/cooling modes and the blower speed dependent on the commanded climate controlled seat settings. A differential fault occurs when the cushion and backrest blower motors on an affected seat are reporting very different temperatures to the SCME . This may result from an airflow restriction or a circuit fault of either blower motor area. If a blower motor is clear of obstruction and is operational, check the other blower motor and circuitry on the seat. It is important to note that a blower motor with a higher temperature may be operating correctly and not the area of concern. The other blower motor may be indicating a much lower temperature, causing the DTC to set. DTC Fault Trigger Conditions DTC Description Fault Trigger Conditions B272C Driver Differential Temperature Fault If there is a temperature differential between the driver backrest and cushion blower motor of 60° C (108° F) or more for more than 4 seconds, the blower motor is disconnected or the duct is blocked, this DTC sets. When this happens the first time in a key cycle, the SCME puts the driver seat system into recovery mode (see principles of operation). If the system is able to recover, it functions normally. If the system is able to recover and it occurs a second time in the same key cycle, the SCME shuts down the driver seat system. Possible Causes Wiring, terminals or connectors Restricted backrest blower motor filter Crushed or restricted backrest foam pad Cushion or backrest blower motor SCME ++++++++++ You may want to use Forscan to perform a self-test of the SCME module, to see if the driver's seat climate control function is restored, or if any different DTCs are set. Good luck! Sorry it has taken me so long to respond.. I'm ready to get serious about fixing this seat and appreciate the information that was shared. Can someone detail the process for performing a self test of the SCME as mentioned above? Also, does anyone know how to check these: Restricted backrest blower motor filter Crushed or restricted backrest foam pad Cushion or backrest blower motor Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted October 27, 2022 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 There is a somewhat issue on some Ford cooled seats modules due to the wiring connector on the module itself. Not sure if it is the same on your Edge or not, but checking the connector shouldn't be difficult. See below video as example, many Ford vehicles use the same module. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted October 27, 2022 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) The following are document download links to relevant sections of the 2016 Edge Workshop Manual, including part numbers for wiring connector repair kits... Front Seat Climate Control Module [SCME] - Wiring Diagram - 2016 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf Front Seat Climate Control Module [SCME] - Connector C3265A Details - 2016 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf Front Seat Climate Control Module [SCME] - Connector C3265B Details - 2016 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf Front Seat Climate Control Module [SCME] - Connector C3265C Details - 2016 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf Good luck! Edited October 27, 2022 by Haz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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