15 Edge Sport random VIOLENT engine shut downs during HARD Acceleration

[sportspice]

Been searching but can not find anything on our issue, not sure if common or not.

 

This has happened a few times now, stomp pedal and takes off great then dash goes nuts, trans starts slamming gears and it shuts down dead.

 

Have to roll off road put in park and restart, runs fine after but am generally hesitant to stomp it again.

 

Pretty violent experience and I feel quite dangerous, anyone hear of this before? Any ideas?

 

Normal driving not any issues at all, ONLY when hard acceleration and not always.

 

THANKS for any starting points here!

[1004ron]

I'd start by reading the stored codes.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

3 hours ago, sportspice said:

Been searching but can not find anything on our issue, not sure if common or not.

 

This has happened a few times now, stomp pedal and takes off great then dash goes nuts, trans starts slamming gears and it shuts down dead.

 

Have to roll off road put in park and restart, runs fine after but am generally hesitant to stomp it again.

 

Pretty violent experience and I feel quite dangerous, anyone hear of this before? Any ideas?

 

Normal driving not any issues at all, ONLY when hard acceleration and not always.

 

THANKS for any starting points here!

please provide more information about your ride, tuned or untuned, engine/trans/suspension/brake/etc modifications and more.

 

have you had your vehicle since new, and how many miles on it. how often do you maintain fluids?

 

hopefully not an engine coolant/oil issue ... https://drive.google.com/drive/u/2/folders/1vQcTXmba9Z2AMvYe7ClAplR16ltQm6ES

 

recommend a good obd scanner like BlueDriver or OBDLink MX+ to pick up trouble codes.

[sportspice]

Its bone stock as far as I know, we bought it this year with around 100k on it, forget the actual number.

We bought it from a Ford dealer in New Orleans and had it shipped to Indiana around April, was birthday gift for wife.

Its 2015 Sport, not sure there were engine/trans options on it but its the 2.7 EcoBoost AWD 6 speed with paddle shifters

 

They did all service to it at that time and handled a couple recalls so it was fully serviced when it showed up.

No complaints with them at all.

 

I checked engine oil and trans fluid when it showed up, both looked new.

Did not check PTU but will change the fluid when I do our first oil change. (coming up soon)

 

This issue started in the past couple months.

 

I had looked into "Forscan" and had planned on using that when I get time to dig into it.

Is it any good?

I had programs for our "Diesel" days with VW TDI and Ford PowerStrokes but have not messed with late model gas engines much.

 

In "Gas" we currently we have 2 -2010 Ford Flex, one turbo one not, this 2015 Edge Sport and a 2001 Sport Trac for a spare.

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by sportspice

[Cerberus]

Forscan is very good, very powerful tool to have.

 

Out of left field guess, but the dashboard freak out & violent shut down imply an electrical issue.. 

hard to even guess what kind of electrical issue.. harness damage that only presents when the drivetrain is torqued out of place from a bad dogbone?

Curious to see what kind of codes you come up with

 

given that you seem to be a Ford family, Forscan is a solid investment.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

very likely an electrical problem of some kind.  the 3.5 engines had issues with the throttle body, but the 2015 MY had some scattered reports of random electrical issues. check battery health and wiring/terminals for sure.

 

you should change ALL fluids when you change the ptu fluid. don't depend on ford maintenance intervals, as they are overstated for most of us who don't have the perfect long highway cruise all day every day.

 

so - trans, coolant, ptu, rdu, and brake fluids should all be on your radar.

[sportspice]

I wasn't getting notifications on this but I "Followed" it now so I think that will fix it.

 

I have a few things ahead of this that need attention, one being putting a new PTU in my Eco Flex, I tore the original up.

 

Not a good idea disabling traction control and giving it hell,

Torqued the case and something moved inside, started whining immediately after, wife even picked up on it and gave me the "You Dumb Ass" look ?

Now it sounds like a ring and pinion would if backlash was way off.

Found a ford article on them, they have updated the PTU about 5-6 times since it started,

The one I bought  (DA8Z7251C) from Ford is last revision, supposed to hold a decent bit more torque now according to the Ford paper I read.

 

Anyway, get that done and then I'll play with the Edge unless it lays down or starts acting worse

Its cool as long as you keep foot out of it.

 

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!!

 

Guess Forscan learning curve is in my near future,,,

 

 

 

 

[sportspice]

Found the text of the paper just in case anyone was curious,,

 

The power takeoff unit (PTU) has been a service concern on some PI Utilities.

There may be an excessive oil smell when driving, the AWD may not work properly, or the PTU housing may be cracked, leaking or noisy.

 

The cause of the PTU damage is the excessive torque loading of the idler gear, which causes the bearing to walk (move) into the housing.

(That is me at this time with my 2010 Eco Flex)

 

In January 2014, a Full Face Thrust Washer, FFTW, was introduced.

This new washer was designed to prevent the idler bearing from walking into the aluminum case.

 

In October 2015, a second change was made, in this case a loose-fit idler bearing.

In dynamometer tests, this bearing design change showed a twice life improvement over the FFTW design.

 

In June 2016, a third change was made. In this case, a new bearing design, one without drawn cups, was installed.

This eliminated the walk mode of damage.

Dyno testing shows a three to four times improvement over the FFTW design.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by sportspice

[Cerberus]

Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing 

[sportspice]

26 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing 

 

From that text I assume 2016 stuff on uses DA8Z7251C

 

I'll definitely pop my dead 2010 one apart and get some pics.

Depending on mood and time I may pop the new one apart to compare.

Edited December 28, 2021 by sportspice

[Cerberus]

29 minutes ago, sportspice said:

 

From that text I assume 2016 stuff on uses DA8Z7251C

 

I'll definitely pop my dead 2010 one apart and get some pics.

Depending on mood and time I may pop the new one apart to compare.

I would not be doing forensic disassembly of a new unit, thats a ballsy boss move lol.

I doubt if mine has the newest version since 2016 model year vehicles are usually all built before June of 2016.. 

Mine seems ok at the moment but I am a definite fan of the loud pedal and I am getting some driveline lash. No lift here, and a strict no-work policy in my lease means I haven't laid eyes on the PTU or rear drive shaft in some time, but I have a 4 pack of shockproof redline gear oil to install at the next opportunity. 

I'm hoping the lash is due to driveshaft carrier bearing slop..

[sportspice]

My opinion on the whole driveline is it is pretty much maxed out with the horsepower the V6 ecoboosts put out.

 

I'm hesitant to add any power to them since I hate working on stuff like this.

 

In the 80's when "Mudding" was the thing, you upgraded driveleine FIRST if you were smart.

Dana 60's will handle some crap!

 

Not much that I am aware of that can be done to these to drastically upgrade the driveline.

 

The 3.5 Eco can be had @ 450HP in the F-150 but that has a LOT more driveline.

 

[omar302]

2 hours ago, sportspice said:

June 2016, a third change was made. In this case, a new bearing design, one without drawn cups, was installed.

 

27 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

I doubt if mine has the newest version since 2016 model year vehicles are usually all built before June of 2016.. 

 

My 2016 model was built on June 14, 2016. I once checked the rear differential (RDU) and the built date was on June 8, 2016. Now I wonder if their is way to know if my Edge has the June change PTU.

[sportspice]

11 hours ago, omar302 said:

 

 

My 2016 model was built on June 14, 2016. I once checked the rear differential (RDU) and the built date was on June 8, 2016. Now I wonder if their is way to know if my Edge has the June change PTU.

 

 

Regardless its a decent bit better than what was in my 2010 Flex so at least you have that going for you.

 

Torque seems to be the killer and the torque on my 2010 Eco Flex is not much different than the torque on my 2015 Edge Sport despite the edge being 2.7L vs. 3.5L

 

My Flex has more HP though.

[Tmaf901]

This sounds EXACTLY like the situation I have been having the past few months. I purchased a 2017 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L ecoboost about 4-5 months ago originally with like 37,000 miles on it. I have driven it 6000 miles since and have done 1 (soon to be 2) oil chances on it. I did post about it, but I figured it was just a fluke issue that happens occasionally because of electronics malfunction (as most cars now adays have a lot of electronic sensors that could fail) until today. It happened again within a month or two of my last posting...

 

Both situations happened where I was changing lanes from slower lane to faster lane of traffic.

 

The first instance happened in a 45mph zone, so I was traveling maybe 30mph at first and hit the accelerator to gain speed to 45 when the dash lit up like a Christmas tree. Initially the transmission made a hard shift, dash lit up, and it made another hard shift when I pulled over and shut it off to turn it back on. Most of the notifications on the dash were to do with advancetrac, parking sensors, cruise control, etc.

 

The second instance (today) I was hopping onto a highway where I was initially traveling 50-60mph in the right lane and moved to left lane to get to 75mph+. My car made a hard clunk again, and my dash lit up saying the same things. I was going to take a video, but unfortunately, I did not have a good location to pull off (very short shoulder, partially in the right lane and in a very bad spot for other vehicles to see me when they were coming around the bend...) so I just shut it off and turned it back on and everything is normal, yet again.

 

It's very concerning as this can cause accidents quite easily depending on where it happens. I did not try to accelerate during these situations, I was more focused on shutting my car off to prevent further damage (if damage was occurring).

 

I was curious if it had something to do with the AWD system not engaging properly. I notice that after a while of driving my car will switch from AWD to FWD which it is supposed to do, but whenever I go to hit the gas enough the car will throw into AWD again, this happens when the transmission shifts from whatever gear its currently in to a lower gear to give you more torque. Maybe it tries to engage but fails to and this causes the transmission to have extra drag (or maybe not as much drag as it expects) since the car thinks it should be in AWD, and this throws everything off..

[sportspice]

That sounds pretty much identical to what we experienced a few times now.

 

Oddly enough we were driving in ice and snow last week and the dash told me it had disabled AWD.

 

We own 2 FLEX and my wife wanted this thing,, I can't count how many times I have said "Sure aint a FLEX"

 

I have had more issues with this crap wagon than both FLEX and this is 5 years newer, I would never buy another EDGE I can 100% say that.

 

Of course EDGE was never in the same price tier either, its just a cheap ride, one step above the ESCAPE.

 

Shame they are just not more reliable.

 

Been looking for another FLEX but damn have prices gone up.

Need to see what this pile is worth, may be able to break even or close.

 

[Tmaf901]

3 hours ago, sportspice said:

That sounds pretty much identical to what we experienced a few times now.

 

Oddly enough we were driving in ice and snow last week and the dash told me it had disabled AWD.

 

We own 2 FLEX and my wife wanted this thing,, I can't count how many times I have said "Sure aint a FLEX"

 

I have had more issues with this crap wagon than both FLEX and this is 5 years newer, I would never buy another EDGE I can 100% say that.

 

Of course EDGE was never in the same price tier either, its just a cheap ride, one step above the ESCAPE.

 

Shame they are just not more reliable.

 

Been looking for another FLEX but damn have prices gone up.

Need to see what this pile is worth, may be able to break even or close.

 

At least I am not alone, I am sure there are more than just us out there experiencing the same issues. Tomorrow I will call the dealer to get it on record again that I am having this issue, as well as talk to them about PTU, RDU, Coolant, and Trans flush prices. Assuming its never been done before, I think its due. Heck, maybe PTU/RDU flushes would fix the issue for all I know.

 

This problem is really an intermittent, undiagnosable issue because there is so many things that could be causing this and nothing pointing to the root of the problem.

 

All we know is this happens when there is a more rapid acceleration.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Tmaf901

[sportspice]

The PTU is 100% mechanical, nothing intermittent can be associated with it

 

Same with Rear Differential, there is an electric "clutch" that allows torque to be applied to the pinion gear.

 

I'm not 100% sure but it almost feels like these may have a lock-up converter and if so I feel this happens in that lock-up range and could be associated with that.

 

If no lock-up converter, it has to do with the gear change and I'm not sure what gears are in that range, probably 3 and 4 from my experience.

 

I feel its in power management and maybe the system just has a sweet spot for confusion.

 

Just know its pretty damn violent on the transmission and I feel at one of these incidents something will pop.

 

We called a larger local Ford dealer explaining the issue and of course they had never heard of it and "Bring it in"

 

It does not happen if we keep foot out of it, one day I'll get time to hook it up to forscan and maybe see something.

 

If you get any genuine constructive feedback from your dealer DO KEEP US POSTED!

 

THANKS for sharing your common issue!

 

 

[Tmaf901]

On 2/8/2022 at 6:47 AM, sportspice said:

The PTU is 100% mechanical, nothing intermittent can be associated with it

 

Same with Rear Differential, there is an electric "clutch" that allows torque to be applied to the pinion gear.

 

I'm not 100% sure but it almost feels like these may have a lock-up converter and if so I feel this happens in that lock-up range and could be associated with that.

 

If no lock-up converter, it has to do with the gear change and I'm not sure what gears are in that range, probably 3 and 4 from my experience.

 

I feel its in power management and maybe the system just has a sweet spot for confusion.

 

Just know its pretty damn violent on the transmission and I feel at one of these incidents something will pop.

 

We called a larger local Ford dealer explaining the issue and of course they had never heard of it and "Bring it in"

 

It does not happen if we keep foot out of it, one day I'll get time to hook it up to forscan and maybe see something.

 

If you get any genuine constructive feedback from your dealer DO KEEP US POSTED!

 

THANKS for sharing your common issue!

 

 

Soo Ive been googling like crazy and I happened to zone in on the individual light errors that I can remember with our specific model of the car and the issue we’ve been having. I remember during both times that this has happened to me I had a wrench light. For a while I thought that just went with the check engine and didn't really give it a second thought but the wrench indicator shows there is a problem somewhere in the powertrain. Googling there was a 2007 model that I seen had a very similar situation where they were driving and all the sudden their service lights would come on and have harsh shifting, pull over and restart everything is fine.

 

As far as I have gathered, most people suggested a fix by replacing the electric throttle body.

 

There was one other situation on a 2011 and 2013 sport version where the same situation occurred and it was suggested there to replace the electric throttle body as well.

 

Do you remember there being a wrench light (there was definitely plenty of warning lights during these instances..). Does this sound like a suitable possible solution?

 

When my vehicle goes to the garage on Wednesday I am going to have them look into it. Maybe they can see if its functioning correctly.

[sportspice]

I seem to remember a wrench and I have read of Throttle Body issues.

 

It seems like sometimes it is searching a bit on acceleration and Ford has had many claims on the throttle bodies in various vehicles.

 

That was on my mind to stab at since they are reasonable in cost but wanted to study aftermarket and maybe enhance the power some.

 

[Tmaf901]

On 2/13/2022 at 12:00 AM, sportspice said:

I seem to remember a wrench and I have read of Throttle Body issues.

 

It seems like sometimes it is searching a bit on acceleration and Ford has had many claims on the throttle bodies in various vehicles.

 

That was on my mind to stab at since they are reasonable in cost but wanted to study aftermarket and maybe enhance the power some.

 

Ford dealer did my oil change, change air filter, checked spark-plugs. According to them (and he brought it out to me) it is pretty black, he said this was carbon buildup. Suggested changing sparks, but the vehicle only has 42,000 miles on it. $300 to do that.. he also suggested an emissions system cleaning service $200.

 

No codes were found (we already knew there wasn't going to be). He seemed to avoid talking about throttle body replacement, suggestion was to grab throttle body cleaner from auto zone. He also said there is cheaper stuff I can get and do myself from an auto store. The only reason their prices are higher is because their services are warrentied which makes sense I guess.

 

Setting up an appointment to get PTU fluid changed, but going to wait on the RDU.

 

Any thoughts on this anybody?

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

throttle body failures on ecoboosts are rare, but they do happen.  have seen a couple on the 3.5 EB where the cap on the motor flies off, as well.  but none really on the Edge/MKX platform. doesn't mean there couldnt be a one-off situation. also sometimes the crud that builds up in the intercooler can get sucked into the throttle body/intake, so i would inspect the intercooler for any buildup.

 

there was indeed a 3.5 engined throttle body issue for 2015, but that was the extent of it.

 

if you are not finding any mechanical reason, by default, you would look to electrical reasons.  electricity does not mix well with water, and 2015 was a BAD year for leaks into the cabin and who knows where else.  check the pcm connections for instance for water intrusion/rust.