Engine wants to stall - Code P1450 & P144A - Evap Purge Valve

[shumax]

2.7 ECO.  27k on the clock (9k on new engine).  Always run top tier, 93 octane, fuel.  Oil changes with SYN every 5k, at least.  Lately, while in neutral, the engine will drop to about 350 RPMP, stumble, catch itself and then return to an idle around 650-750 RPM's.  It's repeatable, almost on a cycle of about every 10-12 seconds.  I do not notice, while stopped, in D, S, or R. 

I'm due for an oil change, so I'll have the dealer look at it.  Any thoughts, though?

 

Shumax

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

So it does not do it in N?  Could be purge valve, torque converter, flywheel, ...

 

Do you feel a vibration of any sort, any unusual noise?  Is the A/C cycling on and off?  If the compressor is drawing too much power, that can happen.

 

I am assuming no codes set in the PCM?

Edited September 9, 2019 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[shumax]

Thanks for the reply.  I did consider the AC - happens whether it’s on or off.  Happens in neutral, too.  I do feel a vibration - it’s that feeling you feel in a manual shift car when it’s about to stall as you are in first taking off.  Sort of gags and shakes the car.  But, only for half a second. Catches itself and then returns to normal idle.  Then repeats 10-12 seconds later.  

 

I thought it may may be a sensor, too, given how repeatable it is....

[shumax]

No CEL.  Did not check for codes...

[jddaniel]

Car runs great any time except the first start after filling up with gas. It will idle poorly for a minute or two after filling up. I have read that it is likely an issue with the EVAP system. I'm not sure if I should be looking at the fuel separator (F2GZ-9D289-A) under the hood or the EVAP canister at the fuel tank. There have not been any codes from the cpu yet, but I would like to get this resolved. Any help on this would be great!

Edited December 20, 2019 by jddaniel

[1004ron]

6 hours ago, jddaniel said:

Car runs great any time except the first start after filling up with gas. It will idle poorly for a minute or two after filling up. I have read that it is likely an issue with the EVAP system. I'm not sure if I should be looking at the fuel separator (F2GZ-9D289-A) under the hood or the EVAP canister at the fuel tank. There have not been any codes from the cpu yet, but I would like to get this resolved. Any help on this would be great!

That is what I'm experiencing lately with my 2017 2.7L and I've checked and no codes present, but looking at the below threads it's likely the purge solenoid.

 

 

 

[THE_BOLT]

Did you ever find out what the issue was 

[shumax]

I gave up.  Took it in twice and it would never replicate.  It's coming and going so it's hard to land.  I have the extended warranty, so I'm not going to fuss with it too much.  

 

You having the issue?

[1004ron]

Does this happen only after filling up with gas, or at all times?

 

I ask, because I used to top-off when filling up and it would do that whenever idling for the first 10 miles or so, and with my cheap OBDII device it showed no codes.

 

Recently I bought the OBDLink MX+ and it showed an old stored code related to the evap.

 

I've not had it do this since I stopped topping-off.

[shumax]

You know?  I've not paid that much attention.  It's my wife's vehicle; I might drive it once a month.  But, I do admit I top the tank off.  Will stop that and then pay attention.  Appreciate the tip!

[THE_BOLT]

Yes mine does it.  I don't put any more gas in after the pump kicks off when filling the tank.  I only run 93 octane, have a catch can, change the oil between 4-5000 mile intervals as I drive 52 miles one way to work mostly expressway, changed the spark plugs twice...I've got around 85000 miles on it currently.  Dealer replaced the charcoal canister assembly under my extended warranty this past summer and a few months before that I replaced the purge valve...but the problem still exists.   Lately since it's been cold out there has been a couple times when I was at a drive thru it stumbled and made a weird chirping sound almost like a fu**ed up bird...didn't even have a full tank of gas at the time.  So I'm lost on what it could be...basically waiting for the engine or turbo to blow and leave me stranded on the side of the road 

[shumax]

Wow.  That's a lot of effort on your part!  Mine hasn't gotten that bad; though, it only has 37k on it.  So, I'm behind you a good bit.  It's also on it's second engine due to the burning oil issue from the cylinder heads.  So, while happy that issue sorted well, I'm uneasy about it all, frankly.  Did they get everything back together correctly?  It seems fine, but who really knows.  That's why I bought the extended warranty.  When that baby expires, the vehicle will no longer live in my garage.

 

I'm going to keep a closer eye on it and report back what I notice.  My wife wouldn't notice if a wheel were missing. 

Shumax

 

[Cerberus]

Mine does this, only immediately after fueling..

I suspect it is a valve coking issue causing poorly balanced fueling that the computer compensates for, but it approaches a new tank of fuel as a variable (rightfully so) and so its confused for a little while.

This is an educated guess, but based on one piece of evidence; On someone else's vehicle, After an induction clean up, it did not happen after fueling..

 

 

[shumax]

I did drive the vehicle, recently, and noticed it wasn't doing it.  What I need to do, now, if go fill it up and see if it does it then.  I doubt coking is an issue on my engine; it was replaced around 22k and has 38k on the vehicle now.  So, the engine only has about 15-16k on it.  Interesting condition, for sure...!

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

doing it immediately after fueling is indicative of an EVAP system issue, usually the purge valve.

[mbritten]

You can check to see if the valve is stuck open by disconnecting the hose that feeds into the back of the valve and connect a piece of hose, try blowing air through it, you shouldn’t be able to is the valve is closed, as it should be.  If you can blow air through, replace it.

[1004ron]

On 12/20/2019 at 9:12 PM, 1004ron said:

That is what I'm experiencing lately with my 2017 2.7L and I've checked and no codes present, but looking at the below threads it's likely the purge solenoid.

 

Got a new OBDlink MX+ and it confirms that there is an evap code.

 

My dealership service manager says that when I bring it in for the brake hose recall, they'll check and confirm the code and replace the evap valve.

[MiamiHaze]

Just started experiencing this on my 16 sport. As soon as I fill up and I would hit a stop it would idle like it wanted to turn off. Just recently it did die on me. I use top tier gas and stop filling once the gas stops once. I still got two months warranty. Also noticed a small oil leak by the pan. Will get that looked at aswell.

[MiamiHaze]

mines does it right after fill up.  It even shut off on me recently

[shumax]

Interesting timing on this as I was going to post more about it.  

 

Mine is now doing it on nearly every fill up.  It stumbles and almost stalls.  But, as noted above, only when I fill it up.  

How do I replicate this to the dealer?  I almost need to have them come to the gas station with me and fill it up to replicate it...?  

 

Has anyone else experienced this and had it repaired successfully?  Is this covered under the emissions warranty, which is longer?  I don't have my owners manual handy - what is the warranty on that portion, if it is covered under emissions?

 

Thanks,

Shumax

[akirby]

I don’t think it’s covered under the emissions warranty.  You could take it in with 3/4 tank and let the dealer fill it up and test it, but I would probably just replace the purge valve first since that’s the root cause then if it continues to do it replace the Evap canister.

[1004ron]

5 hours ago, shumax said:

How do I replicate this to the dealer?  I almost need to have them come to the gas station with me and fill it up to replicate it...? 

I have an email from my dealership service manager stating that they will scan it for codes and if the evap code is found they will replace the Evap Valve when I go in to get the brake recall done, which I'm still waiting for.

[MiamiHaze]

7 minutes ago, 1004ron said:

I have an email from my dealership service manager stating that they will scan it for codes and if the evap code is found they will replace the Evap Valve when I go in to get the brake recall done, which I'm still waiting for.

Funny I was told the same thing. Apparently they are having trouble sourcing the brake hose line. And without a check engine light on I doubt they'll be able to pull out any codes for the evap.I wonder how hard it is to replace and dyi it.

[1004ron]

41 minutes ago, MiamiHaze said:

Funny I was told the same thing. Apparently they are having trouble sourcing the brake hose line. And without a check engine light on I doubt they'll be able to pull out any codes for the evap.I wonder how hard it is to replace and dyi it.

That's not correct - the codes are stored.

[shumax]

I was at the dealer having the tranny fluid flushed on my 2019 Explorer Sport and brought this issue up.

They finished my sentence by saying it was likely the canister or the purge valve.  The manager, who is a family friend, urged me to try SeaFoam in the gas tank.  I asked him if that's ok on the turbo 2.7 as I thought we weren't supposed to do that as it could damage the impellers on the turbos?  He said he runs it in his turbo Fusion and has no issues.  I do trust him as he is a family friend, but thought I'd better run that past some folks here.  Maybe that's just on the induction side and going through the fuel is fine?

 

They did say that if that doesn't fix it, bring it in and they would see if there was a code.  If there was a code, they could replace it under warranty.

Shumax