Cabin Air Filter location ?

[Lex Talionis]

ohh.. I am pretty sure if you only have a screen, you could add a filter no worries. I would be hard pressed to believe they would do 2 totally different units. 2 different filters, screen or paper filter yes, but not 2 different units. and since you can buy cheap, no harm to toss in a filter and bail on the screen.

 

the more interesting thing is to note whether "manual" and "auto" equipped temp systems get 2 different type of filter elements: screen and filter respectively - as the trend in the last few posts kind of shows.

 

UPDATE: my "auto" in fact has the filter

Edited April 14, 2009 by Lex Talionis

[abowie]

Found mine on my 08, very dirty. Blew it off, hosed it off dried it and put it back in.

 

blockisle9: I have an 08 SEL...was your filter a screen?

[blockisle9]

blockisle9: I have an 08 SEL...was your filter a screen?

My 08 is a Limited, It has a filter.

[CorporateEdge]

2008 SEL with auto temp controls = filter as posted

[Kanatronic]

Mine has the screen, the only advantage is that it is washable, as the screen is plastic, the downside is that the holes are a lot bigger than argular paper or whatever filter is made of.

 

I was thinking in using both, but after a closer inspection, to use both makes no sense, as the screen will be after the filter then, so no particles will be trapped by it, and the filter will not be protected from the big particles as well...mine for being 6 moths old was pretty dirty, a lot of polen and vegetable material on top...I will place the filter as soon as I get it, as that will aloow me to remove some of the main causes of my alergies. nad on top if you spray it with any car air freshener it will keep my new car scent going in.....

 

BTW it works for both outside intake, and inside intake air circulation, as the window that governs the flow or air, is imediately before the filter...

[Lex Talionis]

got a photo of this 'screen'? we have seen the filter, but I am curious to see the screen.

[Kanatronic]

got a photo of this 'screen'? we have seen the filter, but I am curious to see the screen.

 

Lex I ordered the FP-65 filter yesterday, as soon as I get it, I will post the picture of the grill for you, I do not want to open this thing again just for the picture, there is too much pastic involved there, that could break.... :wacko:

[Kanatronic]

Here are a few pics of the process, first the FP-65 Motorcraft Filter Box that arrived today, for what it is honestly 16.00 is a rip off, it is far better to place a piece of thin foam on top of the grill there, and will remove more dust and pollen than this thing, the holes on the filter are pretty big for that task IMO:

 

 

 

Filter top side:

 

 

 

Filter bottom side:

 

 

 

Compartment with the cover:

 

 

 

Compartment with the cover removed:

 

 

 

Here is the "infamous grill" removed:

 

 

 

 

 

This seems to be the part number, at least that is the only number I found on it:

 

 

 

Finally I decided to place both in, they fit like a glove, and just for safety reasons, the grill after the filter makes no sense at all, but the filter alone had not much support under it, and it is right on top of the fan. I didn't see too much extra security, or support for it other than the filter shape itself (and it is pretty flimsy BTW) so if for any reason it gets wet, or goes inside it will get stock with the fan, and create more damage than benefits:

 

 

Edited April 24, 2009 by Kanatronic

[jak508]

Here are a few pics of the process, first the FP-65 Motorcraft Filter Box that arrived today, for what it is honestly 16.00 is a rip off, it is far better to place a piece of thin foam on top of the grill there, and will remove more dust and pollen than this thing, the holes on the filter are pretty big for that task IMO:

 

 

 

Filter top side:

 

 

 

Filter bottom side:

 

 

 

Compartment with the cover:

 

 

 

Compartment with the cover removed:

 

 

 

Here is the "infamous grill" removed:

 

 

 

 

 

This seems to be the part number, at least that is the only number I found on it:

 

 

 

Finally I decided to place both in, they fit like a glove, and just for safety reasons, the grill after the filter makes no sense at all, but the filter alone had not much support under it, and it is right on top of the fan. I didn't see too much extra security, or support for it other than the filter shape itself (and it is pretty flimsy BTW) so if for any reason it gets wet, or goes inside it will get stock with the fan, and create more damage than benefits:

 

 

[jak508]

That's quite interesting. I just changed mine out a couple of weeks ago on my 2007 MKX and there was no screen just the filter.

[blockisle9]

That's quite interesting. I just changed mine out a couple of weeks ago on my 2007 MKX and there was no screen just the filter.

My 08 Limited with the auto climate control had just the filter only, no screen also.....

[Kanatronic]

The Edge comes with either one, the filter or the grill, not both. mine has a manual climate control system, so I have only the grill as stock...I felt that the holes were too big to be efficient enough to catch all the pollen, and as I'm allergic, I decided to get a better filter to replace the grill. While looking there and as I already have both, I noticed that they fit perfectly and I inserted both there, as you can see, but honestly you do not need the grill if you have the filter already...

 

What I feel is that the Motorcraft filter is pretty crappy, and the holes are still too big, I ahve been dealing with filters my hole life given my allergies, so I know what a good filter is, and honestly any 1/4 closed cell foam will do a far better job trapping pollen that this filter at 16.00 a piece....to me a total rip off...

 

BTW does anybody had tried a better quality filter made by K&N, Boss, TYC, etc...<aybe a multilayer with activated charcoal, or baking soda, to remove unpleasant oddors comming in or so...

[hydro]

Great photos, very informative. I'll order a few for the wifes edge and mine.

[CorporateEdge]

I am not aware of any identically sized non-oem filters in Canada but haven't looked to hard.

 

I can appreciate the allergy issue but given that the AC on my 2008 isn't exactly blowing a hurricane of wind in to the cabin I am reluctant to "tighten up" the filtration rating which would likely reduce the already weak air flow.

 

Until recently cabin air filters and hepa filters didn't exist in cars. Now my shop vac and dust buster have "hepa" filters. I am fortunate enough to not have allergies so most of these filters are of little value to me.

 

If you wanted to see a rip off check out what the Honda Vans need in terms of cabin air filters. The first replacement on our 2003 involves actually cutting parts out in order to access and replace the cabin air filter. The filters are way more expensive and if you get the dealer to do the work its well over 100.00 for the first replacement.

Edited April 25, 2009 by CorporateEdge

[Kanatronic]

I am not aware of any identically sized non-oem filters in Canada but haven't looked to hard.

 

I can appreciate the allergy issue but given that the AC on my 2008 isn't exactly blowing a hurricane of wind in to the cabin I am reluctant to "tighten up" the filtration rating which would likely reduce the already weak air flow.

 

Until recently cabin air filters and hepa filters didn't exist in cars. Now my shop vac and dust buster have "hepa" filters. I am fortunate enough to not have allergies so most of these filters are of little value to me.

 

If you wanted to see a rip off check out what the Honda Vans need in terms of cabin air filters. The first replacement on our 2003 involves actually cutting parts out in order to access and replace the cabin air filter. The filters are way more expensive and if you get the dealer to do the work its well over 100.00 for the first replacement.

 

I mean you have to see it to believe it, it is completely flimsy, I'm not against of those filters to be so thin, as they can be well done, and remove particles anyway, but in this case is both, it is thin, and on top the holes are not so small so the particles will go inside the vehicle...

 

Not that it should be HEPA, but honestly any piece of 1.4 foam will do a better job than this stupid filter...and on top $16.00....TYC offers a OE replacement for $3.74, and I trusting Motorcraft did not get it, but see below the specs:

 

 

In my opinion what Honda does, do not justify others to do the same, two wrongs do not make a right, let Honda do what they want, that was in the first instance why I opted for a Ford and not for a Honda, I have worked in a repair shop/gas station in the past, and I have seen the owners to suffer the devastating repair costs. I recall once $72.00 for just a ball bearing imported from Japan...the NASA uses cheaper parts IIRC....LOL....

[abowie]

I took the cabin filter screen out of my 08 SEL and was surprised how clean it was and how fine of a mesh the screen is. I'll just stick with it instead of trying to incorporate a paper filter. Plus since it's reusable, I'll save some bucks not having to buy replacement filters. I wonder what the advantage was that Ford had in mind with the paper filters....?

[akirby]

I took the cabin filter screen out of my 08 SEL and was surprised how clean it was and how fine of a mesh the screen is. I'll just stick with it instead of trying to incorporate a paper filter. Plus since it's reusable, I'll save some bucks not having to buy replacement filters. I wonder what the advantage was that Ford had in mind with the paper filters....?

 

Wire mesh won't filter as well as paper, no matter how fine it appears to be.

[securinu]

so people will buy the oil filter for the engine but wont spend a few dollars to filter the air you breathe. Thats an interesting healthplan.

[Kanatronic]

so people will buy the oil filter for the engine but wont spend a few dollars to filter the air you breathe. Thats an interesting healthplan.

 

You just hit the nail right in the head... ....of course that is if the person is interested in breath cleaner air, otherwise is a waste for them...for me is must, and my mesh (and is not wire, is nylon) was pretty dirty in six months, so go and figure how will be my lungs!!!

But I agreee that it could be cheaper, I paid 16.00 for that paper crap.... :wacko:

[Lex Talionis]

so people will buy the oil filter for the engine but wont spend a few dollars to filter the air you breathe. Thats an interesting healthplan.

 

sorry.. not buying into that logic at all.. the 2 do not even equate.

 

we breath this air all the time, driving down the road with the windows open, with the BAMR open, when not in the car.. good lord, in the scheme of things, that filter doesn't really amount to much at the end of the day. Hell, most cars do not even have such a filter and never needed a cabin air filter before in cars - it doesn't really matter now either and it will not make 1 single difference in life or health at the end of the day. Nor does it do anything for the car.

 

However, the filter on actual engine oil or fuel filter can keep you car from being seriously damaged - and so it does matter.

[blockisle9]

sorry.. not buying into that logic at all.. the 2 do not even equate.

 

we breath this air all the time, driving down the road with the windows open, with the BAMR open, when not in the car.. good lord, in the scheme of things, that filter doesn't really amount to much at the end of the day. Hell, most cars do not even have such a filter and never needed a cabin air filter before in cars - it doesn't really matter now either and it will not make 1 single difference in life or health at the end of the day. Nor does it do anything for the car.

 

However, the filter on actual engine oil or fuel filter can keep you car from being seriously damaged - and so it does matter.

Im with you on this one, Even with the cabon air filter, the dust on that builds up in the interer is proof.

[Kanatronic]

sorry.. not buying into that logic at all.. the 2 do not even equate.

 

we breath this air all the time, driving down the road with the windows open, with the BAMR open, when not in the car.. good lord, in the scheme of things, that filter doesn't really amount to much at the end of the day. Hell, most cars do not even have such a filter and never needed a cabin air filter before in cars - it doesn't really matter now either and it will not make 1 single difference in life or health at the end of the day. Nor does it do anything for the car.

 

However, the filter on actual engine oil or fuel filter can keep you car from being seriously damaged - and so it does matter.

 

Well not 100% accurate, first it removes dust that otherwise need to be removed from the car manually, on the dashboard and carpets, etc...secong not sure about you, but as a general rule, we spend 8 hours working, some of us in closed offices, later on at least 6 to 8 hours sleeping at home, we do have home AC or heater, that is also filtered, and mainly all windows are all year closed, at least in this area, so the time you spend in the outdoors could not be that much unless you work outdoors...I spend not much time in my car, that is true, but some people travel up to a couple of hours on them on top of those above, and personally I never roll down a window, what for? To get dust inside the car, and breathe all that crap later on...

 

Now about the oil filter, do not be so sure that the engine will not be protected if you remove it, the same way in the first cars made, we did not have oil filter neither...LOL...But in honor of the truth, we replace the oil usually far before to the point that it becomes really bad for the motor internal parts, an need to be really filtered, as per the metal particles, the oil pan has a big magnet that attracts and trap there the bigger metal parts that are the real danger for the motor, and that happen sometimes before the oil pased through the filter, so if you replace the oil, and change the filter, and do not remove the oil pan to clean it, at least once in a while, you still may have some of the crap inside the motor anyway...so do not be so sure that the oil filter is protecting you too much...maybe in car that the oil flows only by pressure like the Corvette, that is true.......of course if there is something to be trapped, it will be trapped there, but not always you "really need it" just as a curiosity in your next oil change, ask for the old oil filter and open it...have you even open an old oil filter from a properly maintained car??? I did just for curiosity once and because it broke anyway, and it was not that bad, any filter from any vacum cleaner just used once, is far worst, and that one was with conventional oil, and we all know that syntetic is even more stable...I'm not saying that you do not need it, but you may not have any "real serious damage" to protect your engine from, if you change the oil regularly, and use good quality syntethic oil...

[Lex Talionis]

Well not 100% accurate, first it removes dust that otherwise need to be removed from the car manually, on the dashboard and carpets, etc...secong not sure about you, but as a general rule, we spend 8 hours working, some of us in closed offices, later on at least 6 to 8 hours sleeping at home, we do have home AC or heater, that is also filtered, and mainly all windows are all year closed, at least in this area, so the time you spend in the outdoors could not be that much unless you work outdoors...I spend not much time in my car, that is true, but some people travel up to a couple of hours on them on top of those above, and personally I never roll down a window, what for? To get dust inside the car, and breathe all that crap later on...

 

my man.. your 1 of a kind. I roll down the window and open the BAMR every single chance I get. fresh air rocks! I have never heard of someone actively avoiding it like you claim above. So do you have a BAMR or did you not get the BAMR for this reason?

 

These cars are not air tight level 6 decontamination chambers. Heaven forbid a person ever opens their car doors and lets that contaminated air in. There are so many ways to fowl that "filtered" air it is not even funny. ANY dust you think those filters removes is magnitfide 10x over the first time you do roll down a window - yes roll down a window - or get in or out of the car or load the trunk and leave that open.. I mean, this is boarding on the absurd :shades:

 

and the whole air filter versus oil filter.. I just cannot even go there

 

I stand by what I said 100% about air filters in cars.. worthless at the end of the day. what they actually filter out is a joke in the scheme of things and if you think they are valuable, look at the model Edges that do not even have them. So valuable ehh that Ford left them out on 2nd tier models? Ha, it is a sales gimmick at the end of the day and hardly worth the fuss. Sure, you can pull them out and they are icky dirty and all that, but look at it in perspective to what you actually breath and it is just meaningless. I mean, I COULD wear a mask every day and at the end of 2 months it would also be brown - but so what, what do you expect and what does that really prove.

 

Maybe you can ask K&N to make one uber cabin filter for ya :happy feet: :yup:

[Lex Talionis]

1 more thing

 

you know what else is totally bogus about the whole 'health aspect' of a cabin air filter... it would have to be running all the time to be useful! (assuming it does even matter for sake of argument) which means at all times (day, night, hot, cold, summer, winter, rain, snow), every single time you are in the car, you must be running your climate system to call upon that 'filter'. who does this? would anyone here expect anyone to believe that not only do they actively work to always keep their windows or BAMR closed, but at all times - no matter what the conditions - they always run the climate system to have filtered air? NO WAY! the very moment you don't - and open any door or window - you are just sitting in "crap" air that was not filtered.

[Kanatronic]

Sorry but why do you think Ford implemented it? It is not a marketing plug, as you said, the ones who do not believe on it, will never do, or maybe just for funny, or to follow a fashion, of course not, the cabin filters, and maybe not in US, but in other countries nobody will get a car without it, you will not sell a car without it, the same way many "stupid things" are implemented...

 

BTW, you are absolutely right on one thing, my AC, or heater, is all the time working in my car, one of the two, simply here it is too hot, or too cold, and I never open the windows at all, and while the weather is just bearable, I use the fan, but something is always on there, that is for sure, simply as that. First the dust, pollen and crap, that I avoid cleaning, and some of them, also affect my allergies, and second the road noise, I prefer the cabin to be close and just listening music, as opposed to hear all the noise of engines and wind that cross my windows...

 

Of course while you get in and out of the car you open the doors, and I'm not saying that we need to be around with a cosmonaut overcoat suit neither, and I'm not saying that I like to avoid outdoors (I like to avoid "noisy" outdoors, and the ones with "tons of dust, and pollen", the first because is not needed, and the other two as I'm alergic...) but the truth is that at the end of the day, many of us, by nowadays working and life conditions, are everyday less and less expose to the outdoors, and mainly due to the "benefits of modern life"...It is not a good thing in many cases, but is what indeed happens.

 

Also you can not compare the amount of air, that goes inside the car, while the car is parked, and you get out and in, than when you roll down a window at 60mph on a highway, the amount of dust that will go inside is ten times as much to be conservative...

 

I asked in another thread about the aftermarket cabin air filters, unfortunately it seems that nobody makes them yet for our vehicle, at least not any good one...BTW how long do you think that it takes for that fan to pass through the filter the whole very small volume of air inside a cabin, have you ever tried to find out? Well with the filter in good condition, and running not to high, just in minutes, the volume inside any car is really small, and probably in less than 20 minutes you have filtered all the air inside the cabin, of course the filter is not HEPA, so you will always have particles around and as you said, the cabin is not airtight neither, but the system will remove the majority of the particles that will be harmful...otherwise and trust me on that, Ford will avoid to place them, that is a corner that they can easily cut, and indeed in many of them they do...

 

Just for your info, the amount of contaminants they remove is not that small as you think it is:

 

"...An automotive cabin air filter’s effectiveness for removing airborne particles was determined both in a laboratory wind tunnel and in vehicle on-road tests. The most penetrating particle size for the test filter was 350 nm, where the filtration efficiency was 22.9 and 17.4% at medium and high fan speeds, respectively. The filtration efficiency increased for smaller particles and was 43.9% for 100 nm and 72.0% for 20 nm particles at a medium fan speed. We determined the reduction in passenger exposure to particles while driving in freeway traffic caused by a vehicle ventilation system with a cabin air filter installed. Both particle number and surface area concentration measurements were made inside the cabin and in the surrounding air. At medium fan speed, the number and surface area concentration-based exposure reductions were 65.6 ± 6.0% and 60.6 ± 9.4%, respectively. To distinguish the exposure reduction contribution from the filter alone and the remainder of the ventilation system, we also performed tests with and without the filter in place using the surface area monitors. The ventilation system operating in the recirculation mode with the cabin air filter installed provided the maximum protection, reducing the cabin particle concentration exponentially over time and usually taking only 3 min to reach 10 µm2/cm3 (a typical office air condition) under medium fan speed..."

 

Here is another good article about the air filtration in cabins...

Edited May 7, 2009 by Kanatronic