Livernois Tune - Engine Failure

[UrbanFree]

1 week after Install my engine blew, after speaking with Livernois they hold 0 accountability. The Data log showed too much pressure/boost in the engine.
Edited 

 

 

Update: they are refunding the product & Its a new day they called me which was great, everything went much smoother today. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by UrbanFree
Refunding for the Tuner

[always on edge]

I’ve been running this tune for over 60k miles and not one problem with it. I’m sorry this happened to you.

 

Does ZFG, or any other tuner, cover engine repairs should something like this happen? Could any other mods you (or perhaps the previous owner, if pre-owned) did contribute to an over boost condition?

[1004ron]

I have zero interest in a tune, but from what I've read here folks are generally happy with Livernois.

 

What was Liverois' response?

[Xtra]

2 hours ago, UrbanFree said:

1 week after Install my engine blew, after speaking with Livernois they hold 0 accountability. The Data log showed too much pressure/boost in the engine. I would highly recommend choosing ZFG over Livernois due to the poor customer service & lack of professionalism. They wouldn’t even refund the product which I found very surprising. 

 

I believe the problem might be is that you are not completely stock, and the LMS tune is designed for bone stock vehicles. Do any mods and you will need a custom tune to be safe. I have never heard of a problem with an LMS tune and a bone stock Edge.. So sorry to hear about the engine, perhaps you can replace it with a 3.0TT swap.  Talk to snmjim , he has experience with that. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Xtra

[UrbanFree]

1 hour ago, 1004ron said:

I have zero interest in a tune, but from what I've read here folks are generally happy with Livernois.

 

What was Liverois' response?

The bigger issue is exactly

how Livernois responded to the matter. They basically just said too bad so sad I also data logged the fuel ratios & dats from the engine to verify that it is in fact the tune that caused this issue. They gave the old we run this in lots of

vehicles & rarely ever get an issue. Of course until they do lol I just feel from a reputable company such as Livernois they should have been more accountable & Professional towards the matter.

[UrbanFree]

48 minutes ago, Xtra said:

 

I believe the problem might be is that you are not completely stock, and the LMS tune is designed for bone stock vehicles. Do any mods and you will need a custom tune to be safe. I have never heard of a problem with an LMS tune and a bone stock Edge.. So sorry to hear about the engine, perhaps you can replace it with a 3.0TT swap.  Talk to snmjim , he has experience with that. 

Yea Although Livernois did have a list of all the mods but I do have the 3.0 with Bigger Upgraded Turbos now. I’m also getting a much better custom tune this time around. I agree the Issue with Livernois is its a base tune for stock vehicles they don’t do log testing at all its a plug/play which clearly doesn’t work on all builds. They should spend more time with tunes when the vehicle isn’t stock. However the amount of Km’s after the tuning was completed to have the engine blow is not a coincidence. I was insanely reasonable ad well I wanted the cost of 

the tune & maybe 500$ Which is minimal. They said & I quote you took too long to start the tuning process. Since I had ordered it while I was on Vacation then Covid happened & I there was many delays. I only did the tune a few months after purchase since my

vehicle was stuck at the garage for that time. 

[1004ron]

13 minutes ago, UrbanFree said:

The bigger issue is exactly

how Livernois responded to the matter. They basically just said too bad so sad I also data logged the fuel ratios & dats from the engine to verify that it is in fact the tune that caused this issue. They gave the old we run this in lots of

vehicles & rarely ever get an issue. Of course until they do lol I just feel from a reputable company such as Livernois they should have been more accountable & Professional towards the matter.

They may not be in agreement with your diagnostics and failure analysis results, and what accountability are you expecting from them.

 

They will have a clause that covers them against claims of consequential damage, and with that in place you effectively agreed that the risk is solely on yourself.

 

None of us here know both parties story, so lets not turn this into a smear campaign - keep it cordial as you have been.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by 1004ron

[UrbanFree]

1 hour ago, always on edge said:

I’ve been running this tune for over 60k miles and not one problem with it. I’m sorry this happened to you.

 

Does ZFG, or any other tuner, cover engine repairs should something like this happen? Could any other mods you (or perhaps the previous owner, if pre-owned) did contribute to an over boost condition?

This response is very similar to what they’re attitude was. Basically we have done this many times without issues, which is always the case until

there is a issue. Can do something 100

times & 1/100 it fails the bigger issue is how the situation gets resolved. They did a very poor job at resolving the situation. The contacting was very poor I was told I’d get call backs & never did. A customer shouldn’t be following up with the company. Then after basically saying Questioning why I took time to Install the tune again is a bad approach. The facts are simple I tuned it &

within 500 Km not miles it blew. If I was the one running the Business I’d offer a refund on the product & some form of compensation. I also forgot to mention they tried blaming it on a recall that was for the 2.0 not the 2.7 Which I found odd. 

[UrbanFree]

1 minute ago, 1004ron said:

They may not be in agreement with your diagnostics and failure analysis results, and what accountability are you expecting from them.

 

They will have a clause that covers them against claims of consequential damage, and with that in place you effectively agreed that the risk is solely on yourself.

 

None of here know both parties story, so lets not turn this into a smear campaign - keep it cordial as you have been.

 

 

I am simply telling my side of the story I agree its not both sides. Its just my experience I could simply be the 1/100 unlucky people that what could have gone wrong did.  I want to make sure people are aware of the risks I have tuned many

vehicles without any issues. This is the first time for me & of course I didn’t read any of the clauses but you’re probably

right I’m sure they do have something to protect them. 
 

Regardless I feel they handled the situation poorly & I just wanted to make sure people are aware that there is a risk when tuning. Then simply the outcome

of the after sales from

the Tuner

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

There are going to be exceptions, hopefully this is an exception to the rule.  But sometimes you pull at a thread, and start unraveling the mosaic.  Time will tell.

[dolsen]

11 hours ago, UrbanFree said:

This response is very similar to what they’re attitude was. Basically we have done this many times without issues, which is always the case until

there is a issue. Can do something 100

times & 1/100 it fails the bigger issue is how the situation gets resolved. They did a very poor job at resolving the situation. The contacting was very poor I was told I’d get call backs & never did. A customer shouldn’t be following up with the company. Then after basically saying Questioning why I took time to Install the tune again is a bad approach. The facts are simple I tuned it &

within 500 Km not miles it blew. If I was the one running the Business I’d offer a refund on the product & some form of compensation. I also forgot to mention they tried blaming it on a recall that was for the 2.0 not the 2.7 Which I found odd. 

You didn't say anything wrong, I'm glad you shared this experience. I think there are a lot of people out there that would try to take advantage of a situation and say "oH tHiS tUnE bLeW mY mOtOr", but there are also a lot of very honest people out there. And I also know there are some companies that build a strong following and are known for the excellent products, but then when the time comes to fix something they did in fact screw up, they ride the whole "our products have been used for millions of years on trillions of vehicles and we always have zero problems. must be something you did".

 

I cannot speak specifically about Livernois on this, but we also cannot rule it out. I'm tired of seeing the corporations beat the individual because they hold all of the legal and financial power.

[UrbanFree]

Update: 
 

They decided they will refund me for the Tuner itself. So I am glad that they’re willing to do something. It definitely shows that they want to make things right. 
 

I am shipping back the tuner this week, I hope anyone else who tunes there vehicle with LMS has better luck then me. I know I’m not the Majority on this one because of how many successful tunes they have done. I was that majority as well until I wasn’t. 
 

The only upside to this story is the fact that I’m getting the bigger motor with better internals & > Turbo. What I wanted out of this build performance wise just got a lot easier. Looking forward to sharing the updates. 
 

Good luck to everyone on there builds & thanks for reading/commenting

Edited September 2, 2020 by UrbanFree
Had more to say :)

[onyxbfly]

 

19 hours ago, Xtra said:

 

 the LMS tune is designed for bone stock vehicles. Do any mods and you will need a custom tune to be safe. I have never heard of a problem with an LMS tune and a bone stock Edge..

 

Bone stock engine and the first mod I ever did on my edge was the LMS tune. It worked for one day and one day only! Thank god my engine didn't blow but their tune caused my edge to go into shut down....... Go back to stock it was fine...... tune it the car would go back to shut down. I'm sure we all can agree that is ridiculously dangerous.  They suggested I change the plugs and I did. Same results.   They checked to see if they sent the wrong tune, but I can't verify that on their end.  Went back and forth with them and eventually received a refund!

 

I initially refrained from posting about my trials and tribulations with them. I'm not interested in bashing them.  At the end of the day they did the right thing and refunded me.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by onyxbfly

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

I blame it on the throttle body.  LOL

[Xtra]

1 hour ago, onyxbfly said:

 

 

Bone stock engine and the first mod I ever did on my edge was the LMS tune. It worked for one day and one day only! Thank god my engine didn't blow but their tune caused my edge to go into shut down....... Go back to stock it was fine...... tune it the car would go back to shut down. I'm sure we all can agree that is ridiculously dangerous.  They suggested I change the plugs and I did. Same results.   They checked to see if they sent the wrong tune, but I can't verify that on their end.  Went back and forth with them and eventually received a refund!

 

I initially refrained from posting about my trials and tribulations with them. I'm not interested in bashing them.  At the end of the day they did the right thing and refunded me.

 

 

II am so sorry to hear that, your experience appears to be the exception. The first one that I am aware of, I wonder if anyone else has had problems with an LMS tune on a stock car. Personally, I have not run an LMS tune for a couple of years now. At least they refunded your money.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Xtra

[UrbanFree]

6 hours ago, Xtra said:

II am so sorry to hear that, your experience appears to be the exception. The first one that I am aware of, I wonder if anyone else has had problems with an LMS tune on a stock car. Personally, I have not run an LMS tune for a couple of years now. At least they refunded your money.

Ya I’m happy about the refund, I’m far from

stock though I have every possible bolt

on you can get + extra. 
I was told that they could adjust everything regardless, the Build is looking like 3.0 Engine Bigger Upgraded Turbos, FMIC, 5Gallon AEM Water/Meth, Custom Intakes/ThrottlePiping, Cold Inlet Tapped for Meth, BBK Throttle Body, JLT Catch Can, Custom Exhaust 2.5”, 2.5 Catless Downpipes, NGK Plugs, The HPFI Di fuel thingy lol & probably more I Can’t think of its gonna be tuned by ZFG now. With all of that it should be a beast. I think going with Livernois based on my build was my mistake I should have started with a much more customized personalized tuning process with many revisions to tweak it perfectly. I think Livernois is the perfect tune for any Stock Engines who just want a quick boost in power I just would ask for a safe conservative tune lol

[UrbanFree]

7 hours ago, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

I blame it on the throttle body.  LOL

Lol My throttle body did pop off 2x after the tune was done a lot of boost pressure

[UrbanFree]

8 hours ago, onyxbfly said:

 

 

Bone stock engine and the first mod I ever did on my edge was the LMS tune. It worked for one day and one day only! Thank god my engine didn't blow but their tune caused my edge to go into shut down....... Go back to stock it was fine...... tune it the car would go back to shut down. I'm sure we all can agree that is ridiculously dangerous.  They suggested I change the plugs and I did. Same results.   They checked to see if they sent the wrong tune, but I can't verify that on their end.  Went back and forth with them and eventually received a refund!

 

I initially refrained from posting about my trials and tribulations with them. I'm not interested in bashing them.  At the end of the day they did the right thing and refunded me.

 

 

Ya at first I was upset cus they told me I waited too long to tune the vehicle after purchasing it since I was building it. Then they said they would refund me for the tuner so I edited my post. I just wanted them to be fair of course as in your situation. My engine at first did the exact same thing surprisingly but after replacing the spark plugs it seemed to be in working order until Kaboom ?! ?

 

Only plus side is The 2.7 is too weak for what I wanted out of it anyways. Now with the Bigger Motor/Turbos the engine will be able to handle it much > plus its like 80HP > then the 2.7 Stock vs Stock as is which is huge! 
I’m just waiting for it to be done to pull faster times then the Urus at 1/4th the cost

[omar302]

@UrbanFree

@onyxbfly

 

Did you get any DTCs before the Spark Plug change? I have had the LMS tune for about 1.5 years now, no issues except unacceptable (to me) harsh shifts, even at low throttle, that they corrected by going back to "stock shift tune". Just got worried from your experiences and want to be pro-active to detect if anything might go wrong. My personal displeasure with them are mainly with the lack of "features" and updates. I have asked them several times to enable the current gear status which other tuners can enable, for which LMS claimed is not possible, and lack of updated tunes. I know they came up with V3 (for 2015-2018 models) but that was back in Nov. 2017. And the V3 tune is not available on 89 Tunes!.

[onyxbfly]

5 hours ago, UrbanFree said:

Ya I’m happy about the refund, I’m far from

stock though I have every possible bolt

on you can get + extra. 
I was told that they could adjust everything regardless, the Build is looking like 3.0 Engine Bigger Upgraded Turbos, FMIC, 5Gallon AEM Water/Meth, Custom Intakes/ThrottlePiping, Cold Inlet Tapped for Meth, BBK Throttle Body, JLT Catch Can, Custom Exhaust 2.5”, 2.5 Catless Downpipes, NGK Plugs, The HPFI Di fuel thingy lol & probably more I Can’t think of its gonna be tuned by ZFG now. With all of that it should be a beast. I think going with Livernois based on my build was my mistake I should have started with a much more customized personalized tuning process with many revisions to tweak it perfectly. I think Livernois is the perfect tune for any Stock Engines who just want a quick boost in power I just would ask for a safe conservative tune lol

 

Was your edge dyno tuned by them? If your ride never saw their dyno then it was truly irresponsible and borderline neglectful of them to tune your ride. Again not bashing them. But here is my line of thought. 

 

There are dozens of people who have edges and fusions with full bolt ons etc.  In the past LMS stated that they would not tune them unless they brought their rides to them to dyno tune them.  If your ride never saw their dyno they basically did some calculations and said something along the lines that these mods should net xxx kinda power and adjusted the tune to match.

 

Unfortunately we found out how that worked out. 

 

Mistakes happen and at times mistakes can be costly. I judge a company not by their mistakes but how they handle them. Some mistakes can be rectified others are fatal as in the case of your blown engine. LMS Offering a refund is the very bare minimum that they can do. Its akin to a slap in the face, but they made an effort to do right by you and that has to account for something. 

 

 

[onyxbfly]

4 hours ago, omar302 said:

@UrbanFree

@onyxbfly

 

Did you get any DTCs before the Spark Plug change? I have had the LMS tune for about 1.5 years now, no issues except unacceptable (to me) harsh shifts, even at low throttle, that they corrected by going back to "stock shift tune". Just got worried from your experiences and want to be pro-active to detect if anything might go wrong. My personal displeasure with them are mainly with the lack of "features" and updates. I have asked them several times to enable the current gear status which other tuners can enable, for which LMS claimed is not possible, and lack of updated tunes. I know they came up with V3 (for 2015-2018 models) but that was back in Nov. 2017. And the V3 tune is not available on 89 Tunes!.

 

To be honest I did have two DTCs prior to being tuned......

 

1 DTC was due to calibration/ firmware of my parking control module. 

 

2 DTC was due to brake light attachment for tow bar.  

 

None of them had any impact on their tune. Ironically enough they even mentioned that to me when we were discussing my engine failure.  When I asked how would these DTC impact their tune they really did not have an answer nor explanation.  

 

The reason why LMS can not enable the current gear status is because they use their own tuner and their science methodology with tuning. They may or may not have access to all of the parameters that HPTuners does.  

 

Lets say that they do. I find it hard to believe that they do not but I digress. That would require them to rewrite their tune and or make a one off adjustment despite other people requesting that feature in the past. That seems like something they are unwilling to do.  Just like not developing a V3 tune for 89.   They feel as if they are beyond reproach and that they are the best. They feel that they got all that they could out of the edge and there is no need to continue developing for it. 

 

I understand their perspective. You get the best performance/ most HP when using 93 why tune for anything less than whats they best.  You're not the first and definitely will not be the last to want a better 89 tune.

 

 

 

 

[onyxbfly]

5 hours ago, UrbanFree said:

Ya at first I was upset cus they told me I waited too long to tune the vehicle after purchasing it since I was building it. Then they said they would refund me for the tuner so I edited my post. I just wanted them to be fair of course as in your situation. My engine at first did the exact same thing surprisingly but after replacing the spark plugs it seemed to be in working order until Kaboom ?! ?

 

 

I can not comprehend why they would say something like you waited to long to tune the vehicle after purchasing it. Unless you made changes to your build after they made their custom one off tune for you.  Then I can see how that is applicable. Any change made after the tune and you did not inform them to receive a new tune to compensate for the change is not on them.

 

It took me a week to tune my car after receiving my tuner. I left my laptop at work and we were closed for Christmas break. I could have gotten it, but I was on break and did not want to sacrifice my time with family and friends in order to do so. 

[omar302]

One more observation on the LMS tune: When applying the tune, the tuner has a progress meter, and for the LMS tunes, it would go through three (3) blocks (erasing block 1 of 3, then writing block 1 of 3, erasing block 2 of 3, then writing block 2 of 3 finally erasing block 3 of 3, then writing block 3 of 3). But the stock tune has 16 blocks! And restoring the stock tune erases/writes all 16 blocks. I asked them about it and they responded: "The mention of only seeing a few BLKS writing when installing the tune versus pulling the stock read is to be expected, so no worries there.  When it reads the stock tune it does a full file and when custom tunes are installed it only has to write the segments not the entire file"

[dolsen]

From the things that I am reading in this thread it does not sound like there was much engineering/research involved in tuning the Edge, it seems to have been "hey let's throw a tune at this and see how much money we can get from it"

[always on edge]

What led you to that conclusion?