Glassverd Posted May 11, 2020 Report Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) Good morning everyone, I hope you are well I have a problem with my 2008 Ford Edge SEL, when it is at operating temperature of 90 degrees and has been running for at least 30 minutes, the engine starts stalling at stops and when I am turning and going from P to R sometimes, always when it is in low rpm, it accelerates a lot and when the needle goes down it goes off. In addition to this the idle fluctuates a lot, all this after being at 90 degrees, if it is cold it is like silk, no problems. Here are some of the many things he reviewed: * 3 Throttle tested (used) * They started the engine and changed VT, put it on time and disassembled the cylinder head in search of something and found everything fine. * Catalysts were repaired (gives code) * Crankshaft and Oxygen Sensor tested. * I took out the PCV valve and moved it and it sounds good (I don't know if I have to change it) * EGr fuel valve change * MAF Sensor Change * Change fan module * Water pump change * Thermostat change * Complete AC System Change (Compressor, Condenser) * Alternator repair and maintenance * Vacuum leak test was done * Test was performed canceling the Brake Booster * Another PCM computer was tried After the repair, the catalytic code continues to come out but they are erased and it takes several days to get out again, I do not know if that is why, I have seen in this and other forums that it is the throttle that fails when heated but I have already changed 3 and it is the same problem, it only remains to buy a new one to verify. I am desperate, it lasts more than 3 or 4 months with the same problem and I am already tired. Thank you very much in advance, Edited May 11, 2020 by 1004ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 mileage on your Edge? I did not see spark plugs and coils mentioned. ever been replaced? what codes are present in the PCM, if any? has fuel pressure been checked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassverd Posted May 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 22 hours ago, Glassverd said: 1004ron Hello!! It has 108k miles, little for age and it is because I really only use it to go to work, which is at most about 5 miles and occasional departures, a year I do not get to do even 3000 miles. The mechanics have said that the fuel pressure if it is wrong even when I am driving without idling will go off but it does not go off, it only does it at idle. But I think they haven't measured it. Curiously, a few months ago it went out very often and with the change of oil and spark plugs it was improved but they have revised the coils and in a graph the cylinders show that they are like silk. It does not give Coils code or anything like that, it only gives a catalytic error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perblue Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 Your O2 sensors can be triggered if your exhaust gases aren't right like running too lean or too rich. A weak fuel pump/low fuel pressure can seem fine while driving and cause a stall at idle or coming to a stop. You have replaced a lot of stuff. At the cost of having the fuel pressure checked I would have insisted to have it checked well before the amount of money you spent, before changing the egr and tearing off the head for sure. You say they repaired the catalysts, did they replace the O2 sensors also? I don't see them listed. When you can't find the problem you have to stop assuming that untested things are fine. One other thing I just thought of, since I've heard of odder things, have you changed your fuel cap? They are vented and if they get plugged up they can cause some odd problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1004ron Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 9 hours ago, Glassverd said: Hello!! It has 108k miles, little for age and it is because I really only use it to go to work, which is at most about 5 miles and occasional departures, a year I do not get to do even 3000 miles. The mechanics have said that the fuel pressure if it is wrong even when I am driving without idling will go off but it does not go off, it only does it at idle. But I think they haven't measured it. Curiously, a few months ago it went out very often and with the change of oil and spark plugs it was improved but they have revised the coils and in a graph the cylinders show that they are like silk. It does not give Coils code or anything like that, it only gives a catalytic error. From your first post I get the impression that you're not a DIY'er and that the service shop that you've been using are not suitably qualified and experienced, which leads me to question how you would use any technical suggestions that you may get here. Would you convey these suggestions to the same mechanic? The issues that you describe requires diagnostics using a scanner that can display live data and a mechanic or technician that can interpret that data - do you have a dealership or independent service shop near you with this capability? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 Do you recall what the error code(s) was/were? The common P0420/0430 or something else? Does the engine sound normal at idle? Are there any hissing or whooshing type noises from the intake or the engine that might indicate a vacuum leak? Typically do not see burnt valves on these vehicles, but keep that in mind for a REMOTE possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassverd Posted May 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) Hello, sorry for the delay, @Perblue it happens that about 3 days ago I went to a specialized site where they work with catalysts to review the work that the previous mechanic had done to me, they found that the catalyst had remains and a piece of metal with holes, this they did it with the reason that the catalytic does not return to give codes. They removed that piece of metal and left the catalyst completely empty; after this I have tested the vehicle and during all the tests it has only been switched off once (and it was that I turned the entire guide with the car stopped) after this I have noticed a great improvement, however the idling remains unstable. Regarding the Oxygen Sensor, he does not give codes and we didnt change it. @1004ronyes, the mechanics I went to have their computers and everything but the dominant attitude of the owner of the workshop and his disappointment in knowing that he could not find the problem and the pay was going to be less then made him not work well, of all modes are very few professionals but I realized late. @WWWPerfA_ZN0W regarding the burned valves, they have already opened the engine and they did not see anything unusual and yes, the car gave the codes P420 and P430, they really are the only ones that gives, does not give any other sensor. The mechanic who was recently told me that I must change the catalysts for new ones and that the work he did is temporary because in the long term he will begin to damage the oxygen sensors; however I am not sure if they are already damaged and that may cause instability at idle because they do not give codes. I have certainly felt improvement but I want to ask two questions. Is it possible that the catalyst is the cause of the unstable idle? and due to the high cost of these, how long can the catalysts remain empty? Before damaging the sensors and if this emptying repair causes major problems? Edited May 16, 2020 by Glassverd Bad format Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 If the catalyst is empty and not catalyzing, you need new catalysts to stop the error codes from coming back. You can opt to use parts that will fake the system into believing that the cats are still functional, or programmatically turn off the error codes, but it is a far better option to replace them altogether. States like California, NY, and Maine of course make it all but impossible to use anything but OEM parts, which in turn drives up the cost quite a bit. You can try and source them from junkyards/used parts places like LKQ and car-part.com, but IDK how much they charge. And warranty is rather dismal anyway compared to when put on a brand new vehicle. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2010,edge,3.5l+v6,1444714,exhaust+&+emission,catalytic+converter,5808 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perblue Posted May 19, 2020 Report Share Posted May 19, 2020 On 5/16/2020 at 6:50 AM, Glassverd said: Hello, sorry for the delay, @Perblue it happens that about 3 days ago I went to a specialized site where they work with catalysts to review the work that the previous mechanic had done to me, they found that the catalyst had remains and a piece of metal with holes, this they did it with the reason that the catalytic does not return to give codes. They removed that piece of metal and left the catalyst completely empty; after this I have tested the vehicle and during all the tests it has only been switched off once (and it was that I turned the entire guide with the car stopped) after this I have noticed a great improvement, however the idling remains unstable. Regarding the Oxygen Sensor, he does not give codes and we didnt change it. I have certainly felt improvement but I want to ask two questions. Is it possible that the catalyst is the cause of the unstable idle? and due to the high cost of these, how long can the catalysts remain empty? Before damaging the sensors and if this emptying repair causes major problems? Omg use a different shop now! You don't gut catalytic converters unless you have O2 sims or a way to tune them out. Some vehicles can end up running terrible after if you don't and no decent shop would have considered this a fix or diagnostic test. The problem could be still just a bad O2 sensor, which will indicate a catalytic converter is bad when it isn't, or still bad gas cap. Sorry but imo they should have never touched anything that they did unless you missed listing other diagnostic details. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassverd Posted June 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 Boy do I have news, last weekend I went to the field and the car continued to show the same symptoms, when I run a little more than 100 miles the half moon broke and affected the engine block so I had to resort to buying a used engine but with warranty and all its accessories, compressor, hydraulic pump, generator, coils, all its sensors, including oxygen sensors. Perblue, you're right, the first thing I should have demanded to be changed must have been the oxygen sensor. What are you talking about "O2 Sims" what does it mean? The catalysts are now clean, nothing through there, they are only a tube, now, that could generate the problem? Between today and tomorrow they will mount the new engine and I will try to see how it is, I definitely thought about buying a CRV but just as I made the investment that came out of the opportunity (1,200 dlls approx) then I will stay a few months to see how it behaves And I already tell you, hopefully the fault will be fenced, otherwise I will investigate the gasoline pump, which is the only thing missing to change the vehicle. Many thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perblue Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Glassverd said: What are you talking about "O2 Sims" what does it mean? They replace your O2 sensor and trick your computer into thinking all is good when you have a gutted cat and can't program it out atm. Otherwise your sensors will say there is a problem and can either richen or lean out the air fuel mixture to try and make the postcat O2sensors happy. Some vehicles you can get away with it others will barely run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassverd Posted June 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) I understand, I have the other motor on and I'll see how it goes. A question, the motor I bought is used but it looks good and works well, is there a way to know how many miles it has or what year it is? Edited June 3, 2020 by 1004ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1004ron Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 On 5/19/2020 at 1:42 PM, Perblue said: Omg use a different shop now! Sorry but imo they should have never touched anything that they did unless you missed listing other diagnostic details. @Glassverd Are you still using the same inept shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassverd Posted June 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 11 hours ago, 1004ron said: @Glassverd Are you still using the same inept shop? No, impossible, I am with a mechanic from my father, an excellent mechanic, he verified that the previous workshop had left the radiator broken with a very ugly fit, the gasket was full of silicone, anyway, they destroyed my engine. I bought one with a 20 day used warranty, what I don't know is how many miles it would have. It brought everything from the factory, original, my current mechanic tells me that it listens well and today he will test it far to see if it gives problems, it indicates to me that a good engine is known in the first week of testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassverd Posted June 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 Good morning to all, here I bring the feedback that at the end of the day is a particular solution but not a general solution, I think Ford should document a little more this type of failure that I have seen that they are common and without documented solutions. My solution has been to change the engine with all the accessories, compressor, alternator, throttle, everything, only the body, battery, computer, gasoline pump and some other accessories remained from the old vehicle. Thank you very much for the effort to help, so I will try to help with my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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