snmjim Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) Injector Insight: If your pushing the ponies with a Tune, especially if you've added a High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP), then you'll want to read more... Lets get this part out of the way now because it's always the most frequently asked question for us. We're at 82k and have tried 5 Tuners of which hands down we've had the best experience and results with ZFG Racing (Tuner) and XTreme-DI (fueling). The life expectancy of a stock set of injectors is said to be anywhere from a life time to 100k miles of which BTW 100k is considered to be the numerical value of one average automotive life time. However, that's running a stock Tune and under average driving conditions. Now if you've decided to Tune for e50 your still good with the stock HPFP and injectors however...if you're Tuning for e85 your going to demand a significantly higher fuel rail & injector pressure therefore, you'll need to install a HPFP. Your stock injectors will do just fine but you'll have to accept that you might only get half the life expectancy (50k) because you'll be working them harder with higher fuel pressure demands. On that prelude note we will proceed with the point of the topic: We've been performing R&D Tuning with stock Ford injectors over the past 2-3 years with great results however, after successfully Tuning for 87 & 93 octanes and e50 we moved on to e85. We installed the XTreme-DI HPFP in conjuction with the stock Ford injectors which proved to be very successful. While refining the e85 race Tune we finally began to experience injector sticking at 82k. So we went to our fueling sponsor (XTreme-DI) for a set of HiPo injectors but unfortunately they weren't going to have the set we needed for three months so we elected to proceed with another set of Ford stock injectors but of course after in depth cross referencing other higher preforming Ford injectors of which there were none we could be certain would be a direct replacement. So since the fueling demand was achievable and sustainable with the stock injectors we decided to accept the half life consequence for now. We also decided that once the XTreme-DI HiPo injector set came in we'd swap out the stock set since the job is much easier than it looks, as long as you adhere to the Factory Service Manual (FSM). In summary the job is just a matter of detaching connectors and attachment points and simply manipulating wires and hoses out of the way, not removing, to facilitate intake manifold removal. Notes: - You do not need to remove intake and charge air pipes, just disconnect them from the intake manifold attachment points to facilitate the intakes removal which is best done towards the passenger side of the car. - The intake valves were surprisingly clean, equivalent to naturally asperated, given all the hype about coking on the back sides of the valves due to direct injection, however we suspect that installing the catch can at midlife may have contributed. - We do not recommend refurbishing old injectors for HiPo applications - We recommend replacing in sets due to batch Spec disparities - New injectors come as a complete ready to install Assy, better than dealing with O-rings and directional retainers - Recommend replacing intake gaskets (x6) - Must use NEW injector clips to maintain proper tension on injectors Here's some Pics: Edited February 19, 2020 by snmjim 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 total cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted February 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Nick Halstead said: total cost? For a complete set of 6 Ford stock injectors and supporting parts $625 Edited February 20, 2020 by snmjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, snmjim said: For a complete set of 6 Ford stock injectors and supporting parts $625 reading is fundamental and I totally missed the part that you used OEM injectors for the time being... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Snmjim. Are these the HiPo injectors we spoke about a couple months ago that you are referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted February 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Xtra said: Snmjim. Are these the HiPo injectors we spoke about a couple months ago that you are referring to. No, they won't be available until May so we had to put something in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) If they are not the injectors we spoke of then this is great news as that means that the new injectors should be specific and propitiatory. Edited February 22, 2020 by Xtra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted February 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Xtra said: If they are not the injectors we spoke of then this is great news as that means that the new injectors should be specific and propitiatory. Not sure if you understood that the injectors we ended up installing are the stock Ford injectors while we wait for the Xtreme-DI injectors to come available in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 Sorry I did not make myself clear. I understand that you have to use the stock injectors while you wait for the new ones to become available. So If the new ones are not the 1,700cc Deatschwerks injectors that we spoke of, then I am assuming that the new injectors will be designed specifically for the 2.7EB. That would be great because so far there are no HiPo injectors that are made specifically for the 2.7EB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted February 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 9 hours ago, Xtra said: Sorry I did not make myself clear. I understand that you have to use the stock injectors while you wait for the new ones to become available. So If the new ones are not the 1,700cc Deatschwerks injectors that we spoke of, then I am assuming that the new injectors will be designed specifically for the 2.7EB. That would be great because so far there are no HiPo injectors that are made specifically for the 2.7EB. The HiPo injectors we're waiting on are by our fueling sponsor (Xtreme-DI) who will be making them specifically for the 2.7 TT eco bosst. So far Xtreme-DI's fuel pump has pushed the fastest documented F150, Edge Sport & Fusion Sport to World records. Recommend following Xtreme-DI & ZGF Racing on Instagram, they collaborate on many World record projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 2/23/2020 at 7:28 AM, snmjim said: The HiPo injectors we're waiting on are by our fueling sponsor (Xtreme-DI) who will be making them specifically for the 2.7 TT eco bosst. Long ago it became clear that the fueling system had become a choke point to higher horsepower with the 2.7EB, but no parts were available to do anything about it. Did that stop you? Nooooooo..Once again snmjim you are leading the way with new performance parts for the Edge with the Xtreme-DI HPFP and HiPo Injectors. . Thank you. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted March 26, 2022 Report Share Posted March 26, 2022 On 2/19/2020 at 11:06 AM, snmjim said: We've been performing R&D Tuning with stock Ford injectors over the past 2-3 years with great results however, after successfully Tuning for 87 & 93 octanes and e50 we moved on to e85. We installed the XTreme-DI HPFP in conjuction with the stock Ford injectors which proved to be very successful. While refining the e85 race Tune we finally began to experience injector sticking at 82k. Hi Jim, Sorry to revive this old thread but i have a question or twelve about the injector sticking problem.. Is this occurring only at WOT or throughout the range and how were you able to discern that was what was going on? And is there any chance that using fuel system cleaners could lead to this problem, by drying out the internal seals? Using Forscan to monitor acceleration per cylinder, see a problem with my 2016 edge's #5 (&6) performance being below average as compared to the rest, confirmed by listening to how it has a definite thrum instead of consistent pull, and I am trying to chase down the problem. I had not heard of Injector sticking being a problem so this peaks my curiosity, and has me wondering about possible solutions.. like a small amount of Marvel Mystery oil (or some other recommended product) in the fuel to lubricate the injectors? Of course the extreme pressure of the fuel rail makes that potentially a bad idea, but maybe not? Since alcohol content in fuel seems to be an issue with drying seals etc, i'm wondering if going to pure gas (readily available here in TN) might minimize my vehicle's problem in your opinion? this link will lead you to a photo directory of forscan graphs that may tell you something I have not seen https://photos.app.goo.gl/CoYm577uioKvVQ2m8 Thank you in advance for any input 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special_K Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 On 3/26/2022 at 7:33 AM, Cerberus said: Hi Jim, Sorry to revive this old thread but i have a question or twelve about the injector sticking problem.. Is this occurring only at WOT or throughout the range and how were you able to discern that was what was going on? The problem with stick was occurring constantly and was dumping uncontrolled amounts of fuel. And is there any chance that using fuel system cleaners could lead to this problem, by drying out the internal seals? To our knowledge and experiences ( about 1,000,000 miles + of all different cars) as long as you use proven and quality fuel system cleaners they actually prolong the life of injectors and can restore performance to a certain extent. Just avoid snake-oil products. Using Forscan to monitor acceleration per cylinder, see a problem with my 2016 edge's #5 (&6) performance being below average as compared to the rest, confirmed by listening to how it has a definite thrum instead of consistent pull, and I am trying to chase down the problem. Depending on mileage, maybe time to replace all of them. I had not heard of Injector sticking being a problem so this peaks my curiosity, and has me wondering about possible solutions.. like a small amount of Marvel Mystery oil (or some other recommended product) in the fuel to lubricate the injectors? Injector sticking is not an uncommon occurrence in modern boosted applications, however most of the time you will see that the only folks reporting issues are those that are running tunes or anything that is pushing the hardware past stock specified OEM limits. OEM builds in a certain amount of failure or capacity loss tolerance under normal application use that partial failure will not be noticed and can be accounted for by the computer Of course the extreme pressure of the fuel rail makes that potentially a bad idea, but maybe not? I would only use fuel specified additives with in a fuel system as heavier viscosities can damage a hpfp since it will drive up pressures even more Since alcohol content in fuel seems to be an issue with drying seals etc, i'm wondering if going to pure gas (readily available here in TN) might minimize my vehicle's problem in your opinion? I think it maybe luck of the draw honestly, Ive had a stock set of turbos on a 250K LS take 10psi of boost for anouther 100K with 0 issues, then I've had some on our daily beater crap out at 88K. this link will lead you to a photo directory of forscan graphs that may tell you something I have not seen https://photos.app.goo.gl/CoYm577uioKvVQ2m8 Thank you in advance for any input Hey @Cerberus, @snmjim asked me to kick in and help answer some of your questions here. Please see above for my input in red :-). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted March 28, 2022 Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Special_K said: Hey @Cerberus, @snmjim asked me to kick in and help answer some of your questions here. Please see above for my input in red :-). Thanks very much, I appreciate the information! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special_K Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 On 3/28/2022 at 11:33 AM, Cerberus said: Thanks very much, I appreciate the information! of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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