Disappointed with Livernois tuner for 2.0L...

[2FAST4U]

32 minutes ago, handfiler said:

Sorry to hear that it didn't work out to your satisfaction Claude. I think the size of the turbo could be the limiting factor with the 2.0 in attaining meaningful gains.

Yeah well... It's not that the tuner is not good...it's because for the price I paid ($794.) !! ...I was expecting more gains than what I got. If I had paid let's say $300.~$350. I probably be ok with it but not at that the price I paid. (See the invoice below)

 

Claude.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by 2FAST4U

[IcyFridge]

I just find this odd. I have tuned previous cars with smaller turbos and had massive gains. 

I'd press LMS to look into the tune file again. It seems to be rocking the escape 2.0 and people love it. Same motor. 

[handfiler]

2 hours ago, 2FAST4U said:

Yeah well... It's not that the tuner is not good...it's because for the price I paid ($794.) !! ...I was expecting more gains than what I got. If I had paid let's say $300.~$350. I probably be ok with it but not at that the price I paid. (See the invoice below)

 

Claude.

 

I'm having a problem with the customs/duties charges. Duties on automotive parts & accessories imported from the USA is 0%. Clearing customs can be done by the customer also at no cost. UPS tries to  pull off this legal scam on Canadians all the time.

[2FAST4U]

10 hours ago, handfiler said:

 Duties on automotive parts & accessories imported from the USA is 0%. Clearing customs can be done by the customer also at no cost. UPS tries to  pull off this legal scam on Canadians all the time.

 

--> Absolutely NOT!  There definitely ARE duty fees to pay on car parts and accessories entering Canada from the USA. I know that for a fact as I've bought parts for my race car numerous times and either you pay them at the border (that is if you go pick them up yourself) or you pay them when UPS (or any other carrier) brings them to your door. Of course, UPS will charge you the duty fees ➕ some "brokerage fee", that's part of their business. 

 

Claude.

Edited June 2, 2020 by 2FAST4U

[Perblue]

55 minutes ago, 2FAST4U said:

 

--> Absolutely NOT!  There definitely ARE duty fees to pay on car parts and accessories entering Canada from the USA. I know that for a fact as I've bought parts for my race car numerous times and either you pay them at the border (that is if you go pick them up yourself) or you pay them when UPS (or any other carrier) brings them to your door. Of course, UPS will charge you the duty fees ➕ some "brokerage fee", that's part of their business. 

 

Claude.

 

If the paper work is filled out right and the part is manufactured in US, Mexico or Europe there should be no duty unfortunately this gets messed up alot and good luck fighting it when it does happen. I also bet though the tuner module is made in china. I however never had to pay duty on my h&r springs, jlt catch can and ronin oil plug along with alot of camaro parts.

 

Now you may be charged gst and pst, which looks to be the case here plus ups's brokerage fees.

[2FAST4U]

Well... you saw it on the invoice I posted!... what more can I say?... I have a bunch of other invoices on which I had to pay duty fees, no way of escaping it. 

First there is the exchange rate

+

Second the duty fees

+

third the gst+pst

+

and (sometimes) brokerage fees.

 

That's what you get for living in Canada.

 

 

Claude.

[handfiler]

2 hours ago, 2FAST4U said:

 

--> Absolutely NOT!  There definitely ARE duty fees to pay on car parts and accessories entering Canada from the USA. I know that for a fact as I've bought parts for my race car numerous times and either you pay them at the border (that is if you go pick them up yourself) or you pay them when UPS (or any other carrier) brings them to your door. Of course, UPS will charge you the duty fees ➕ some "brokerage fee", that's part of their business. 

 

Claude.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. I have spent well in excess of $10,000 on my Mustang in US manufactured parts over the years and not once did I pay duty fees. Freight and taxes only. On the few occasions that UPS delivered items along with a brokerage invoice, I told them no thanks and didn't accept the delivery. I then went on to clear customs on my own which is a simple process if you take a little time to research it on UPS's website.

 

[2FAST4U]

2 hours ago, handfiler said:

 

 "I then went on to clear customs on my own"...

 

 

well if you had to "clear customs" ... well what you're paying... that's the DUTY FEES! Some call it "taxes" but call it "taxes" or "duty fees"...you still end up paying.

 

Claude.

[handfiler]

50 minutes ago, 2FAST4U said:

 

well if you had to "clear customs" ... well what you're paying... that's the DUTY FEES! Some call it "taxes" but call it "taxes" or "duty fees"...you still end up paying.

 

Claude.

 

Clearing customs and paying duties are 2 entirely different things. When you clear customs you pay the GST and PST and duties if any are applicable. In the case of US car parts you are paying zero, nada, null.

Feel free to have the last word. These were mine. ?

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by handfiler

[2FAST4U]

53 minutes ago, handfiler said:

 

 "In the case of US car parts you are paying zero, nada, null."

Feel free to have the last word. These were mine. ?

 

 

Again, NO.

I'm done with you.  ?

[omar302]

8 hours ago, handfiler said:

 

Clearing customs and paying duties are 2 entirely different things. When you clear customs you pay the GST and PST and duties if any are applicable. In the case of US car parts you are paying zero, nada, null.

Feel free to have the last word. These were mine. ?

 

 

 

7 hours ago, 2FAST4U said:

Again, NO.

I'm done with you.  ?

 

Working in Purchasing, I concur with @handfiler. Though I am not in Canada, but the concept is similar. When clearing goods you pay for several items. One of those items is "Customs Duty" and in some cases there would be no "Customs Duty" but you'd still pay for the other charges.

 

See this link to Canada Border Services Agency Duty & Taxes Estimator shows "0" Duty charges in case you select an Automotive part made in a NAFTA country (Canada, the United States and Mexico). Also if you select "Electronic & Media" (Tablets/E-Readers, Phones or Computers), the Duty is also "0" regardless of NAFTA origin or not.

[IcyFridge]

Claude - any update after updating the tuner and driving around stock for a bit? 

 

Also with 93 gas it should be a blast to drive. Seems you were still running on low test gas. 

[IcyFridge]

I bit the bullet and went ahead and ordered one for my 2019 SE. 

[2FAST4U]

26 minutes ago, IcyFridge said:

I bit the bullet and went ahead and ordered one for my 2019 SE. 

"Icy", let us know if you see a big improvement with the tune!...

 

Claude. 

[IcyFridge]

So I got the tune loaded up on my 2019 SE and here are my thoughts;

 

Coming from a long list of tuned vehicles, the difference with the LMS tune is not "oh my god" different. However it is a significant boost in performance. When I first pulled out of my driveway, I was disappointed because it felt like stock. After about a half mile, it really woke up. Took a spin around the neighborhood along with a highway jaunt.

Around the city, the transmission is buttery smooth. No more clunking and jerking at all! Low throttle (normal driving) feels like stock. Mid throttle gives you a little more "push" in the seat. Gunning it at 35mph actually introduced a little torque steer, much to my surprise. It seems the tune has massive power gains in the midrange, which is where you have your passing power.

On my brief WOT run on the highway, the Edge did not feel like it was struggling to get up to speed like it was before. It reached 80mph pretty effortlessly. Passing power over 55mph has not been tested, as the highway drive I took was only a mile long.

 

Using Sport Mode was what made the most difference. Running in this mode made the Edge feel like my old Focus ST power-wise when it was stock. So that to me, is pretty impressive considering the 4000+ lb weight of the Edge.

 

Throttle sensitivity doesn't seem to be changed too much. It is a little more sensitive, but not like a trigger finger as I've experienced with some other tuned vehicles.

 

All in all, I am definitely pleased with the tune. It is about 80 degrees outside (muggy and humid), and I'm sure the performance benefits would be even more obvious when it's cooler outside. The Edge does not feel like a porker anymore, and feels like a lightweight car. The benefits are in line with what I have experienced in tuning other vehicles. No, it's not going to be like "Whoa Nelly" like when I went to Stage 2 Protune on my old WRX. It actually reminded me of the difference I felt when I tuned my Focus ST.

 

Tuned vehicles I've owned; 2008 Jeep JK Wrangler, 2011 Dodge Charger V6, 2008 Subaru WRX, 2004 Subaru WRX, 2018 Focus ST, and now a 2019 Edge. The only vehicles I had a drastic difference with was the 2008 WRX, as it gained a turboback and intake with the tune. I'm sure the Edge would also be drastically different with that as well. I do have an AFE Pro Dry S filter, and a custom exhaust with a 14x9 Magnaflow muffler.

 

TLDR: The Edge 2.0L LMS tune makes for a decent "Stage 1" tune that should provide ample midrange and passing power. I'm already looking forward to testing against some of the young'un boy racers with their Honda Civic Sports. I have full confidence in the power the tune gives me in order to put those Civics down.

[2FAST4U]

On 7/6/2020 at 10:19 PM, IcyFridge said:

 

"I'm already looking forward to testing against some of the young'un boy racers with their Honda Civic Sports. I have full confidence in the power the tune gives me in order to put those Civics down."

Well... good luck with that!  ?

 

Claude.

[IcyFridge]

16 hours ago, 2FAST4U said:

Well... good luck with that!  ?

 

Claude.

Oh. I have confidence in the tune for that. The power is there, but with the 90+ degree temps we have in NY... I don't push it. This morning it was a 67 degrees drive, and I opened it up. So nice and quick!

[2FAST4U]

3 hours ago, IcyFridge said:

Oh. I have confidence in the tune for that. The power is there, but with the 90+ degree temps we have in NY... I don't push it. This morning it was a 67 degrees drive, and I opened it up. So nice and quick!

The tune is an improvement but to me it's a small one....and I'm definitely not sure it would be enough so I wouldn't get humiliated by some kid driving a souped up Honda...  Like you said, it's a "stage 1" tune, nothing very "hot"...

 

Claude.

[IcyFridge]

For me it's quite an improvement. Perhaps it's something to do with gas or elevation. 

It's no hot rod, but can keep up with most sporty cars. 

[IcyFridge]

So I got some performance numbers for 0-60 since it cooled down here in NY.

 

Got my Ultragauge EM 1.4 speed zeroed in with my OEM speedometer/GPS. It's dead even at 60mph. Ran 3 runs 0-60. All of them with traction control off and a 3k RPM launch. I got a 6.57, 6.6, and a 6.49. Pretty decent for a LMS tune, as I was getting 7.2 stock. When the transmission shifts, it does take a split second so it might have thrown my numbers off. I plan to try again sometime later with traction control on and no launch. It felt quicker to me the other day with no launch, so worth trying. I have noticed that leaving it out of sport mode does allow for more shifts, which keeps it in the 3k RPM range which is where most of the torque is. To me, sport mode is good for mountain runs but not a dash as it holds RPMs too high out of the torque peak.

 

Temp outside - 61 deg F

Oil temp - 179 deg F

Altitude 700 ft

Intake temp - 75 deg F

Road a slight incline (VERY slight)

Full tank of 93 Sunoco

Baby seats and stroller in the back

Magnaflow custom catback, Pro Dry S filter, and LMS tune are the only mods.

Highest PSI I've seen so far is a spike to 21PSI.

 

I'm pleased with the results, as I got a 6.2 best on the same spot with my tuned Focus ST (and lots of wheel spin). All in all, the LMS does make the porky Edge move quickly (not OMG fast mind you). Don't get me wrong... a stock Focus ST with decent tires and a competent driver will still give my Edge a run for its money, but it's nice to know that my Daddy-Mobile has spunk.

 

I do plan on getting a Green Filter to replace the Pro Dry S for a little more airflow, as I ran it in my Focus ST and was pleased with it. I don't re-oil and just replace filters every 2 years (30k miles).

Edited August 30, 2020 by IcyFridge

[IcyFridge]

Another update. Was tooling around a little. Some modified Infiniti G35 (lowered, exhaust, intake, and wheels from what I can see) challenged me and I kept right on his bumper all the way up to 80 from a dig. Granted he was crawling away, but I'm definitely VERY pleased with the performance of my Edge. He gave me a surprised thumbs up when we parted ways. 

[IcyFridge]

A few more months on this tune, and I am greatly pleased with it still. I drove a 2020 Escape 1.5L loaner and a 2020 Edge SEL. Their transmission mapping does give them similar low end off the line pep, but they fall flat once the go pedal is pushed. As for me with the tune, I get pep all through the rev range. Stepping on it at 35mph induces torque steer still, and I chuckle every time because my Focus ST did the same thing and I'm driving a much heavier vehicle with AWD.

 

Stock, highest boost spike I ever saw was 17psi and it holds steady at 15.5-16 when gunning it. With the tune, I saw a spike to 22psi once (usually 20) and it holds 18-19 when gunning it.

At partial acceleration (passing someone on a city road), stock would go up to maybe 4psi. Tune will go up to 10-12psi. It definitely is upping the boost at all revs without being too much. It's a nice feeling to be able to modulate the acceleration with the go pedal instead of waiting on the transmission to "catch up".

Cruising stock at 60mph and lightly pressing the pedal will accelerate very slowly around 6psi. Tuned will actually accelerate harder at 12psi in the same gear, depending on how much you press the gas. 60 becomes 72 rather effortlessly. Step on it, and you'll be at 90+ before you know it.

 

Note : I am not an aggressive driver by nature and abide by all laws. This is purely stretching the Edge's legs out. I drive less aggressively than that grandma in her spanking new Prius. It's just that the tune greatly improves daily driving quality for me (20%/80% city/highway).

Edited November 2, 2020 by IcyFridge

[1004ron]

If I was considering the Livernois tune, the below thread would put me on "Edge".

 

 

 

Topic:  Livernois Motorsports and Engineering On Probation 

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=10535.0

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by 1004ron

[IcyFridge]

I am not too worried. I come from the Focus ST world, where "OMG the tune blew up my engine" is a daily occurrence. I still tuned my FoST after researching.

 

And the person in that thread was running a custom block/turbos. That's apt to fail without a dyno tune. Livernois is considered one of the most reliable tunes for the Ecoboost platform as far as my research goes. My buddy had them on his 3.5eco and beat the ever living hell out of it with zero issues. He now runs 5Star on his new 2.7 eco, and still beats the hell out of it lol.

 

My engine is stock, other than the exhaust and drop in filter so I'm not too worried. Livernois has been responsive to my emails and addressed my concerns before I went with the tune.

 

Getting a tune is always going to be a risk, no matter what vehicle it is. I've had a tuned WRX snap a transmission at 37k due to too much torque (custom protune with Cobb AP), no issues with my 3.6 Charger for 80+K miles on a Hemifever tune (Diablosport), some pinging that was later fixed on my 2008 3.7 Jeep JK with Superchips, no issues with my Focus ST in the 26k I've had it tuned with Freektune (Cobb AP), and so far about 8k on the Edge with Livernois. Every single vehicle, I've worried about and stay on top of monitoring (warming up to 175 degrees or more before hitting boost), gas octane from reputable top tier stations (not Costco, BJs, or any other cheapo gas), and spark plug maintenance.

 

It's all up to the consumer whether or not they are willing to live with the risk. I personally don't think tunes are made for people to just plug in and forget about (like my buddy with the F150 running Costco gas-- I'm amazed it's still kicking). Being diligent in keeping up with your maintenance and taking care of your vehicle is key.

 

As for that link with the probation -- it doesn't seem to be an issue with tunes for most, but customer service was lacking. I haven't had any issues with their support from Anthony. Most of these people with issues are running the 6 speed transmission with the 3.5 Ecoboost with "heavy mods".

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by IcyFridge

[Snox801]

Well I know I’m let this slip for some time but I’m back.

 First I have run the tune on my 2.0 for just over 100k now with no issues. I’m very happy have only tuned back to stock once just to see the difference and could not get 93 oct in CO only 91.

 I only have stock 93 and e30.

as far as performance I love it very surprising the cars you can beat. 
 I was able to get my best of 14.16 1/4 mile but it was very hot and humid. I’m sure I could get it down if I was only at the track with my edge. It was just because I was already down with my truck. Left the car seats in and everything. 
 I can say I’m very happy with it and plan on doing it to my maverick ASAP. Only thing I wish I would have done with my edge 2.0 was a downpipe but no one makes it for the awd. 
 I can also say for those worried about the long term they tuned my 3.5 truck with downpipes, meth and a few other goodies and I just rolled 260k of tuned miles and not nice ones.

 Also ran my 2.0 edge at well over 100mhp for over 2 hours straight. 
 Very happy with mine long term .