No Ford Performance Parts for ST ?

[AMulally]

Just now, Special_K said:

 

Performance brake option means nothing sadly, just red calipers.

 

I've had the ford parts guy cross reference on multiple occasions.

 

I think your over-stating things: Yes these are calipers from the Ford parts bin, but they are from a different vehicle offering and are more capable than non-ST: 

 

Performance Brake Package Options
• Unique front rotors and dust shields
optimized for cooling. Unique, red
painted calipers with ST tuned pad
formulation front and rear.

 

Are they Brembo ? No they never said they were; but hence my Q on some Ford performance parts that do have Brembo brake offerings. 

[Special_K]

4 minutes ago, Fingernip said:

Totally new computer/fuel control system and trans. If they were the same we would be able to use the same tune. Talked directly to the LMS guys about this. They seem pretty annoyed with the misinformation. You should know better than anyone then.. The tunes available for the sport ramped up very similarly.  They didn't just get a E30 tune or a 100+hp 93 octain tune in just 1 year. They got years of customer nagging and updates that gradually increased power as the tuners learned how the system would react. 

 

LMS upper management and HR is a crock (dealt with them directly for about 2 months), but make an amazing product.  Via HP Tuners its the same damn thing dude..... the engine is a copy / paste.  The trans should take about 4 hours of dyno time.

[Special_K]

2 minutes ago, AMulally said:

 

I think your over-stating things: Yes these are calipers from the Ford parts bin, but they are from a different vehicle offering and are more capable than non-ST: 

 

Performance Brake Package Options
• Unique front rotors and dust shields
optimized for cooling. Unique, red
painted calipers with ST tuned pad
formulation front and rear.

 

Are they Brembo ? No they never said they were; but hence my Q on some Ford performance parts that do have Brembo brake offerings. 

 

literally ordered them out of interest, calipers are the same size and exactly the same and the rotors are the same size difference is the Vane pattern.....

Edited November 13, 2019 by Special_K

[AMulally]

Just now, Special_K said:

 

This makes me chuckle in all the right places.  The ST is heavier, weaker and worse in pretty much every way possible except traction, than the sport

 

I actually own both a 2017 Edge Sport that  I drive for the winter months and I have a 2019 ST I took delivery of early August. There is no doubt that the ST is worlds better not just including every day performance [not just track]. The build quality especially fitment of the interior and the materials [they seem very similarity but the 2019 is indeed of much better quality]; from torque-vectoring, much better trans [after the latest update] all the way down the B&O audio system. That god-awful Sony system is enough to make you trade the vehicle in just in itself  I'm not saying the Sport is a bad vehicle, it's very nice - but It's not the ST. Reason I put away the ST with my other vehicles for the winter and drive the Sport...

Edited November 13, 2019 by AMulally

[Special_K]

Just now, AMulally said:

 

I actually own both a 2017 Edge Sport that  I drive for the winter months and I have a 2019 ST I took delivery of early August. There is no doubt that the ST is worlds better not just including every day performance [not just track. The build quality especially fitment of the interior and the materials [they seem very similarity but the 2910 is indeed of much better quality]; from torque-vectoring, much better trans [after the latest update] all the way down the B&O audio system. That god-awful Sony system is enough to make you trade the vehicle in just in itself  I'm not saying the Sport is a bad vehicle, it's very nice - but It's not the ST. Reason I put away the ST with my other vehicles for the winter and drive the Sport...

 

To each their own.  

 

there is no more or less torque vectoring in the ST than there is in the sport.

 

someone needs to put same wheels and tires on a sport and ST and set some track times......ill put money on the Sport will come out on top.

[AMulally]

Just now, Special_K said:

 

To each their own.  

 

there is no more or less torque vectoring in the ST than there is in the sport.

 

someone needs to put same wheels and tires on a sport and ST and set some track times......ill put money on the Sport will come out on top.

Sounds like you need to put that money towards a trade-up to the ST

[Fingernip]

4 minutes ago, Special_K said:

 

LMS upper management and HR is a crock (dealt with them directly for about 2 months), but make an amazing product.  Via HP Tuners its the same damn thing dude..... the engine is a copy / paste.  The trans should take about 4 hours of dyno time.

Even if the only change was addition of stop/start and a new accident avoidance system it will change the engine management system significantly where an existing tune cannot be used. Ford did tweak the system for better economy and gave it a hotter tune. The ECU is a totally different unit, also new injectors, fuel pump and countless other parts were introduced with the new 2019 models. 

[Fingernip]

4 minutes ago, Special_K said:

 

To each their own.  

 

there is no more or less torque vectoring in the ST than there is in the sport.

 

someone needs to put same wheels and tires on a sport and ST and set some track times......ill put money on the Sport will come out on top.

I would definitely take that bet. 2 10,000 mile cars with stock tunes on 93 octane with the same wheel+tire packages on an autocross course. 

[Special_K]

4 minutes ago, Fingernip said:

Even if the only change was addition of stop/start and a new accident avoidance system it will change the engine management system significantly where an existing tune cannot be used. Ford did tweak the system for better economy and gave it a hotter tune. The ECU is a totally different unit, also new injectors, fuel pump and countless other parts were introduced with the new 2019 models. 

 

Please compare parts number and post, these claims are not true.  And I'm sorry but you are wrong about the tune, it does not work that way....like literally at all.  With-in the tune PID the Engine, trans and the like are isolated from the BCM (which houses the driver assist tech).

 

2 minutes ago, Fingernip said:

I would definitely take that bet. 2 10,000 mile cars with stock tunes on 93 octane with the same wheel+tire packages on an autocross course. 

 

ill bet 500.00,  same driver, same course, same day. you make it happen ill show up.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Special_K

[Fingernip]

7 minutes ago, Special_K said:

 

To each their own.  

 

there is no more or less torque vectoring in the ST than there is in the sport.

 

someone needs to put same wheels and tires on a sport and ST and set some track times......ill put money on the Sport will come out on top.

I would have to check on that but I do remember claims of them revamping the advancetrac system and the way power is delivered during certain driving conditions. 

[Special_K]

Just now, Fingernip said:

I would have to check on that but I do remember claims of them revamping the advancetrac system and the way power is delivered during certain driving conditions. 

 

they did claim that, all they did was tweak the already established torque management system.  If you load in the HP Tuners suite and load in both base tunes you can literally see its the same thing...... the st has the lincoln timing table and a slightly tweaked TMS.... nothing to really write home about ....

[Fingernip]

1 minute ago, Special_K said:

 

Please compare parts number and post, these claims are not true.  And I'm sorry but you are wrong about the tune, it does not work that way....like literally at all.  With-in the tune PID the Engine, trans and the like are isolated from the BCM (which houses the driver assist tech).

 

2019 Fuel Injector Part #: CM5306 (9F593)

2018 Fuel Injector Part #: CM5238 (9F593)

 

[Special_K]

1 minute ago, Fingernip said:

2019 Fuel Injector Part #: CM5306 (9F593)

2018 Fuel Injector Part #: CM5238 (9F593)

 

 

Oh good find!  thank you! 

 

Update: thought it would have been a higher capacity.....only about 50cc more ....damn 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Special_K

[onyxbfly]

5 minutes ago, AMulally said:

 

This was my point; it's definitely listed as "performance vehicle" by ford - hence why I was surprised not to see any parts available for the Edge ST, but there are for every other vehicle categorized by Ford as "performance". Yes it''s true there are mostly female drivers for the Edge that I see, but not the ST which I'e only seen male drivers. Same goes for the Explorer: definitely a chick SUV until you get to the Sport model. 

 

1 hour ago, Fingernip said:

Ford has always listed it as a performance vehicle. They even brag about it being redesigned by the ford performance team specifically vs the sport. 

https://performance.ford.com/ lists it and its listed on the main website under performance models. I think budget is a concern.. They haven't even updated to a 2019 catalog.

 

Ford failed to do proper justice to the introduction of the 15' sport.  They dropped the ball on it.  Here we are in time for a refresh and ford says to self what can we do to distinguish a new generation from the previous ones... And the ST was born. They gave it an aggressive fascia, bastardized the back of it and gave it some bells and whistles that the uninitiated may not be aware of and rolled them out!

 

There are a variety of improvements that the ST has over the Sport.  Mainly I see them as safety features.

 

The 4 main selling points of the ST is engine HP, Suspension, Transmission, Performance brake package.

 

The 8 speed transmission is new territory for Ford. IIRC this is the first year that they have tested/ implemented them in vehicle for public use.  Day 1 fail,  damn year a year later they sorted it out. Remember it had to be different...

 

The performance brake package is essentially the same except for red caliper paint and a brushless radiator fan.  The parts numbers are exactly the same.  Size of pads right down to the size of the rotors. I asked the parts guy at my preferred dealership about the brakes and he showed them to me. If the brake pads are made of some secret sauce he said he  didn't know. But to the naked eye and the wallet they are essentially the same.

 

According to various resources it has been stated that the ST is 20% stiffer suspension.  Some say that the ST handles better than the Sport, but they share the same part numbers. I do not know if its one of those issues where multiple vehicles will share the same part and you have to enter your vin to get the one suited for your vehicle or if there is any actual difference.  I'll discuss the suspension query with my parts guy the next time I go in.

 

The engine is the exact same. It shares the same tune as the MKX. Nothing new there. In fact the Sport sold in the middle east and other parts of the world have 335HP i.e the Lincoln tune.

 

I like the ST I really do. I just think it needs to be viewed correctly for what it is.  If Ford did not give it the ST badge, and called it a sport would they generate the sales numbers that they do? Of course not.

Do we know if ST redesigned anything for sure? To much conflicting information to be sure. 

 

Lets just enjoy our rides for what they are.  There is plenty of road out there for all of us!

 

 

[snmjim]

[snmjim]

49 minutes ago, Special_K said:

 

Oh good find!  thank you! 

 

Update: thought it would have been a higher capacity.....only about 50cc more ....damn 

 

Would 50cc more allow e85?...

Edited November 13, 2019 by snmjim

[Special_K]

28 minutes ago, snmjim said:

 

Would 50cc more allow e85?...

 

its not alot of extra headroom.  and the limitation is the fuel pump.

[boostededge]

There is simply no aftermarket support for these vehicles. You can't even find an intake kit for it. AFE was going to make a cold air intake but they rather make diff covers for Raptors. About the only thing to do is a tune. 

[Special_K]

36 minutes ago, boostededge said:

There is simply no aftermarket support for these vehicles. You can't even find an intake kit for it. AFE was going to make a cold air intake but they rather make diff covers for Raptors. About the only thing to do is a tune. 

 

uhhhhhhhhhhh there is much more you can do:

 

 

[Nick Halstead]

15 hours ago, Fingernip said:

Ford has always listed it as a performance vehicle. They even brag about it being redesigned by the ford performance team specifically vs the sport. 

https://performance.ford.com/ lists it and its listed on the main website under performance models. I think budget is a concern.. They haven't even updated to a 2019 catalog.

 

 

ok, I will bite. Yes it is listed under their performance vehicles. Wouldn't you think Ford would have performance parts for said "performance" vehicle or would even list it on the Ford Performance webpage? Wouldn't you think Ford would have had a bigger marketing campaign or even set out to prove all magazine editors wrong when they all wrote horrible things about the ST? Ford did nothing. Ford does not care about the Edge in the performance realm (outside of marketing). I've been driving an Edge for 7 years now and NOTHING has changed. 2015 came and everyone thought parts would start flooding the market, nope didn't happen. The ST came and people thought parts would start flooding the market. Nope didn't happen. NOBODY brought a built Edge to any SEMA show besides the ones sponsored by Ford. Tjin Edition, Aaron Vaccar, Webasto and then the BTR ST. Usually cars that are trending big in the performance world get built for SEMA, not sponsored by the corporate entity. The brand new Ranger has a slew of dedicated parts (none carryover) from Ford. A vehicle that has used the same motor since 2015 has ZERO. If Ford was not killing hatches and sedans the ST name would have never came to the Edge because it fits none of the previous ST criteria, in reality the Fusion ST would have been a better application for the badge. ST owners always get butthurt when us Sport guys try and prove points. ST is a trim level, it's not a sport upgrade and with ST being applied to the Explorer really shows it's a Trim level replacement for the word "Sport" to attract the buyers who can no longer get their happy lil ST hatches. though most of those drivers have moved on to totally different brands. @Special_K and I are not bashing the ST, it would be kinda dumb to bash a vehicle that is like 95% the same one we drive.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Nick Halstead

[Nick Halstead]

14 hours ago, AMulally said:

 

This was my point; it's definitely listed as "performance vehicle" by ford - hence why I was surprised not to see any parts available for the Edge ST, but there are for every other vehicle categorized by Ford as "performance". Yes it''s true there are mostly female drivers for the Edge that I see, but not the ST which I've only seen male drivers. Same goes for the Explorer: definitely a chick SUV until you get to the Sport model. 

well I've only seen 3 STs on the road in person since release and only 1 was a male. That's a very broad spectrum too cause I've lived in 3 states and driven across the country.

The SQ5 is 100% more of a performance vehicle than the Edge Sport/ST ever will be.

[Special_K]

7 hours ago, Nick Halstead said:

well I've only seen 3 STs on the road in person since release and only 1 was a male. That's a very broad spectrum too cause I've lived in 3 states and driven across the country.

The SQ5 is 100% more of a performance vehicle than the Edge Sport/ST ever will be.

 

I've only seen 2 ST's in the wild and only one was driven by a male.  Especially the new Hot "V" turbo SQ5, that one has some serious potential once the tuning world cracks the ECM.

[Fingernip]

I have 3 other STs in my town/local commute alone. Went to the movies 3 days after i bought it and saw 2 in the parking lot. This was January mind you.  I agree the Audi SQ5 is a real performance SUV but it is also $10,000 more than an edge ST and carries a heritage the Edge does not. If Ford were to simply support it and offer aftermarket parts would it change your minds as to if it is a performance vehicle? I think Ford is purely reactive and would respond if there were enough demand. Honestly though I feel the cars today are too capable in stock form. People buy an Edge ST after owning a Honda CRV and are blown away by how quick it is. They don't end up hunting the web for go fast parts. A focus ST yes its fun but its not fast.. you almost need to upgrade for its full potential while a CUV like the Edge feels like you are nearly at the edge of useful performance with such a large platform. The F150 modders are usually drag racers and its a thrill to make something fast that seems as if it shouldn't be. Blowing ricer doors off with your log cabin on wheels.  This is just my opinion.... I sometimes am tempted by the tunes and want a bit more power but then i strap my 5 year old into his seat and I'm suddenly content again. I want to push the edge but then reality pulls me back to realize if i want something faster I can drive my Lincoln or buy a model X. 

[AMulally]

Although this is a great conversation, I think the topic perhaps has run off course. The absence of Ford Performance Parts from Ford was more of a question as to why would other Ford ST models get this type of support from Ford and not the Edge; not to try and single out the ST for trying to be something that it's not. It is warmed-over Sport ? I can certainly see it being viewed that way, but all the reviews that I've seen / read, they seem to be wanting some sort of X3M competitor and that's never what any ST model was. I have an 2014 Audi SQ5 and it may be in a similar SUV class, I never expected the Edge ST to be a replacement for my SQ5 - it's just not. Just as I would never get a Focus RS to replace my Audi RS5. Has Ford been misleading in it's marketing of the Edge ST against other performances makes like Audi S/RS and BMW M-sport and M ? If so I' have not seen anything like that. Perhaps we are just wanting more out of the ST that was never really promised; but I can agree with Ford could go much further performance-wise with the Edge ST than it has.  - hence my original Q.

[akirby]

The ST brand used to be completely separate from the main vehicle development teams where they would take a vehicle after it was completed and modify it (Focus/Fiesta ST e.g.).   This is why those models lagged behind the new vehicle intro by a year or two.   Now they've integrated the Ford Performance team and they're developing the ST versions at the same time as the normal versions replacing the "sport" models similar to what MB did with AMG.  It's a different paradigm and there won't be as much market support for Edge and Explorer STs as there were for hot hatchbacks (especially globally).