Adaptive Cruise Control W/Lane Centering

[Sage]

2 hours ago, Waldo said:

Lane Keeping and Lane Centering are two independent systems that can work together or separately.  Lane Keeping uses only the camera, while Lane Centering combines input from the camera and the radar module.  If Lane Centering can't pick up the lines, then Lane Keeping won't be able to either, though Lane Keeping will still work if it can only pick up one line, while Lane Centering will not.

 

Lane Keeping works differently depending on how you have it set up.  If you have it in "both" mode, it will allow you to go further across the line before if gives you the vibration than if it's in "Alert" mode.  But if you have Lane Centering on and are actively steering the vehicle towards the line, then it's already applying a correction torque, even as you cross over the line.  That correction torque is probably damping out the vibration that you feel.

 

Now you have me wondering, how does the radar module assist the camera in the lane centering function?  Now I know they have done wonders in technology and me being old school, to me radar uses, I will call a return ping to determine the distance from a object.   

Edited April 30, 2019 by Sage

[Waldo]

16 hours ago, Sage said:

 

Now you have me wondering, how does the radar module assist the camera in the lane centering function?  Now I know they have done wonders in technology and me being old school, to me radar uses, I will call a return ping to determine the distance from a object.   

 

When you are following another vehicle fairly closely the camera's view of the lines is blocked, so it can only see the lines right in front of your vehicle.  This is good enough for Lane Keeping, since it only has to react when you get close to a line, but if it only used the camera in this case you'd end up bouncing around a lot in the lane and it would be late to react to curves.  So it uses the radar to assume you're generally following the vehicle in front and sets that as a target, though obviously if the car you're following changes or drifts out of the lane, it will use the camera's input as higher priority.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Waldo

[Sage]

Ok, thanks for the info.

[omar302]

23 minutes ago, Waldo said:

So it uses the radar to assume you're generally following the vehicle in front and sets that as a target, though obviously if the car you're following changes or drifts out of the lane, it will use the camera's input as higher priority.

 

What if there is no car in front? 

[akirby]

5 minutes ago, omar302 said:

 

What if there is no car in front? 

 

Then the camera has no issues.

[TomCinMI]

Turns out that another aspect of this is that if the driver uses MyKey, as I do, Lane Keeping defaults to Alert only on each start-up.

[Sage]

OK, so I stopped by the dealer today and the service advisor stated he heard back from Ford.  Ford suggested I drive another Edge ST to see if it does the same.  This dealership does not have another ST with the 401 package and 21" wheels like mine(I want to make sure I am comparing apples to apples).  I have an appointment next week so a tech can check it out and that way it will be on record as having being looked at. 

[Sage]

I did not have a tech check on this yet, worked with the trans TSB and now have an appointment for the headlight module update.  Have done the trans update and after I get the headlight module update done, I will have them check out the lane centering issue I have.  

[Sage]

I have an appointment this coming Wednesday to have this looked at.

[cv27]

Hugging one side - Regarding Lane centering (adaptive cc), most posts describe a tendency to hug the left side: I wish I had that situation.  I usually ride on the far left lane and, in my case, Lane centering hugs the right line so passing an 18 wheeler creates a bit of anxiety.  So, given some are hugging left and some right, could there be an electronic adjustment (hello Forscan) or is it plainly a wheel alignment (not my theory) ?  I wish there was that magical menu saying "hug more to the left or to the right".  Better yet, if the radar detects traffic on the left or right of you, it hugs more on the other side, else dead center.

 

Cars entering your lane - I really like Lane centering, but humans are still better.  When a car flashes that it will move into your lane or just starts moving in, a human will slow down immediately to compensate.  But Lane centering appears to wait until the car has completely entered your lane to react, most of the time abruptly applying the brakes at the last minute.  Could it be programmed to detect object entering its field of view and adjust by beginning to slow down?

 

Start/stop - Last negative... Why is it that, after disabling start/stop with the console button, and with Adaptive cruise On, and traffic stops more than a few seconds, why not only does start/stop kick in overriding my wishes, but also requires a 'resume' to get going again?  Any logic to this?

[omar302]

8 hours ago, cv27 said:

Start/stop - Last negative... Why is it that, after disabling start/stop with the console button, and with Adaptive cruise On, and traffic stops more than a few seconds, why not only does start/stop kick in overriding my wishes, but also requires a 'resume' to get going again?  Any logic to this?

 

Can't really answer your first 2 points, though probably there won't be any solutions, for the time being at last, as these feature are still relatively new. But for Start/Stop, the button is for the engine shut-off during idling while in "D" with your foot on the brake pedal to save fuel. It has nothing to do with the cruise control "Stop and Go" feature. These are 2 separate features.

[cv27]

On 7/27/2019 at 11:58 PM, omar302 said:

 

Can't really answer your first 2 points, though probably there won't be any solutions, for the time being at last, as these feature are still relatively new. But for Start/Stop, the button is for the engine shut-off during idling while in "D" with your foot on the brake pedal to save fuel. It has nothing to do with the cruise control "Stop and Go" feature. These are 2 separate features.

Thanks for confirming, still a bummer.  Wouldn't it make sense that the console button affect both what you describe ('D' and brake pedal) and the adaptive cruise control?  Don't answer, I'm in wishful thinking mode...

[Waldo]

On 7/27/2019 at 3:36 PM, cv27 said:

Hugging one side - Regarding Lane centering (adaptive cc), most posts describe a tendency to hug the left side: I wish I had that situation.  I usually ride on the far left lane and, in my case, Lane centering hugs the right line so passing an 18 wheeler creates a bit of anxiety.  So, given some are hugging left and some right, could there be an electronic adjustment (hello Forscan) or is it plainly a wheel alignment (not my theory) ?  I wish there was that magical menu saying "hug more to the left or to the right".  Better yet, if the radar detects traffic on the left or right of you, it hugs more on the other side, else dead center.

 

Cars entering your lane - I really like Lane centering, but humans are still better.  When a car flashes that it will move into your lane or just starts moving in, a human will slow down immediately to compensate.  But Lane centering appears to wait until the car has completely entered your lane to react, most of the time abruptly applying the brakes at the last minute.  Could it be programmed to detect object entering its field of view and adjust by beginning to slow down?

 

Start/stop - Last negative... Why is it that, after disabling start/stop with the console button, and with Adaptive cruise On, and traffic stops more than a few seconds, why not only does start/stop kick in overriding my wishes, but also requires a 'resume' to get going again?  Any logic to this?

 

Most of what you want in the first point will be coming in the next generation of the feature.

 

The problem with the cars entering the lane scenario is that in the radar, a car moving into your lane looks a lot like a car starting a sweeping turn.  If you started slowing down every time a car started moving into your lane, you'd also be slowing down every time you came to a curve and there was another car ahead of you in the lane on the outside of the curve.  Maybe with some further refinements of combining the camera and radar that could be worked out though.

 

I'm surprised that start/stop still activates when you have disable it.  That doesn't sound right, are you sure it's still disabled and you didn't switch drive modes or something?  But why not just leave it on?  It DOES save fuel and it DOESN'T cause excess wear on anything. 

The resume is necessary though because once you've stopped for a certain period of time, the lawyers want to make sure you're still paying attention.  That has nothing to do with start/stop though, that's been the case on all vehicles with full stop cruise control (I think it's actually a FMVSS requirement, not a Ford thing).

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Waldo

[Waldo]

xx

Edited July 30, 2019 by Waldo
Double post

[cv27]

3 hours ago, Waldo said:

 

Most of what you want in the first point will be coming in the next generation of the feature. - Can I ask you what your source is?

 

The problem with the cars entering the lane scenario is that in the radar, a car moving into your lane looks a lot like a car starting a sweeping turn.  If you started slowing down every time a car started moving into your lane, you'd also be slowing down every time you came to a curve and there was another car ahead of you in the lane on the outside of the curve.  Maybe with some further refinements of combining the camera and radar that could be worked out though. - I understand your point of view, I guess I'm expecting more from the technology.  I believe though this would be possible with a bit of AI assisting the radar: afterall, there is a second mass (car entering lane in front of me) moving in a different vector than the one previously tracked, all in the same trajectory.

 

I'm surprised that start/stop still activates when you have disable it.  That doesn't sound right, are you sure it's still disabled and you didn't switch drive modes or something?  But why not just leave it on?  It DOES save fuel and it DOESN'T cause excess wear on anything. 

The resume is necessary though because once you've stopped for a certain period of time, the lawyers want to make sure you're still paying attention.  That has nothing to do with start/stop though, that's been the case on all vehicles with full stop cruise control (I think it's actually a FMVSS requirement, not a Ford thing).The "still paying attention" argument I get when required to keep my hands on the steering wheel (going 60-80 mph).  But I can't wrap my head around it when I'm basically standing still with the engine shut off.

 

 

[Waldo]

Are you saying that every time you are stopped at a traffic light behind another car, you stare intently straight ahead for the entire duration? Imagine the scenario where you're stopped in a pack of cars at a red traffic light and you're looking off to the side at something.  A pedestrian starts crossing the street in between your car and the one in front.  But just as they are coming up to your bumper, the car in front starts moving, so your ACC starts moving your car too.  Crunch.  Or what about if you open the window and decide to buy a newspaper or something from a street vendor.  Could be a big problem if your car started moving while you had your hands out the window.  There are also scenarios where things can change while you're stopped, like things that move in front of you that the radar can't pick up like a dog or small child.

 

And again on the lane change scenario, if you assume the system doesn't see the lane markings, then to the radar that different vector looks exactly like the other car starting a large radius curve in the road.  That's a scenario where it already uses AI to assume that you're going to have to start making that same turn and thus it should NOT slow down.  Obviously there's still work to be done, like incorporating camera input and even using predictive behavior (the car in the other lane is catching the car in front of him, so he's likely to change lanes in front of me), but for now it's not a simple solution.

[commbubba19]

i've noticed mine hugs the right more than i'd prefer.  not all the time though.

 

what i don't like about lane centering or whatever you want to call it is the pressure requirement on the wheel.  it seems to want some sort of death grip on the wheel to remain active.  kind of counter intuitive to its purpose if you ask me.  I normally just use lane keep with nudge turned on so if i do get distracted on a long drive and drift, it'll keep me in the lane.

 

also, please note these systems will always allow the driver to override their input.  so if it even has the slightest input that you've moved the wheel, it will release control.  which goes back to my gripe about needing a death grip to stay active.  i just don't use it.  

[Fingernip]

1 hour ago, commbubba19 said:

i've noticed mine hugs the right more than i'd prefer.  not all the time though.

 

what i don't like about lane centering or whatever you want to call it is the pressure requirement on the wheel.  it seems to want some sort of death grip on the wheel to remain active.  kind of counter intuitive to its purpose if you ask me.  I normally just use lane keep with nudge turned on so if i do get distracted on a long drive and drift, it'll keep me in the lane.

 

also, please note these systems will always allow the driver to override their input.  so if it even has the slightest input that you've moved the wheel, it will release control.  which goes back to my gripe about needing a death grip to stay active.  i just don't use it.  

I have never had mine release control. It will actively fight you to maintain lane center unless you activate a turn signal. It is easily overpowered but you feel it the entire time. For long trips I just hang my hand on the wheel giving it a tiny bias towards one side and it will correct for my input.

[commbubba19]

I guess i've never felt it fight me.  

[benk016]

So I finally had the alignment done on my ST since it came from the factory with an off-center steering wheel. Before the alignment the car always hugged the left lane. The steering wheel also was slightly turned left when going straight. Now that the steering wheel, is *almost* centered, the car now seems to want to pull closer to the right lane. 

 

I have noticed if I let it go, and it gets close to the right lane, it will center it back and then stay pretty centered. But if I keep my hands on the wheel it will constantly be pulling the wheel to the right.