Edge Low Speed Surge/Buck - Transmission

[Toby99]

Mine is back at the dealership for another (number five I believe) try at fixing this bucking/surging issue.  Service manager did a road test and verified the buck/surge did infact exist. 

 

After four days I was told resetting transmission adaptive learning appears to have corrected this problem.  Said they wanted to wait till the next morning to do another road test.  I then told the service advisor that was tried over a year ago with no success.  One reason why it's back in for the same issue.

 

Waiting for Monday to see what will happen next.

 

Over the past month I have been talking to an individual at Ford Executive.  They recommended I take the vehicle back for another service visit.  They have also been talking to the dealership service manager but I do not know any details of their conversation. 

[dansirois]

I have my first appointment regarding this issue on Wednesday.  I’ll try to get them to do a reset to the adaptive learn system mentioning the TSB. I have a 2020 Titanium with the new 8 speed transmission, not sure what the tranny model number is? Can’t find any labels with that info. Car was built in June 2020.

Edited August 15, 2020 by dansirois

[dansirois]

I feel my issue may have more to do with the fuel injection system.  I’ve noticed the following: while stopped at a red light with car in drive and brake pedal applied, the car gently rocks front to back from engine rpm pulsating; more noticeable when car is cold, a/c is on and especially when slowly releasing the brake pedal. During this stationary time, the transmission is not suspect. It does very lightly buck and hesitate 0 to 20 mph when accelerating though. Annoying! 

Edited August 18, 2020 by dansirois

[dansirois]

My car was at the dealers service department for two days.  Tech called to say that there is nothing they can do, others have reported the same issue and it is a characteristic of vehicle!  After buying Fords for the past 40 years, this will be my last.

[AutoBuff]

On 8/20/2020 at 4:46 PM, dansirois said:

My car was at the dealers service department for two days.  Tech called to say that there is nothing they can do, others have reported the same issue and it is a characteristic of vehicle!  After buying Fords for the past 40 years, this will be my last.

I can understand your frustration.  Unfortunately, many vehicle manufacturers behave pretty much the same when it comes to this level of defect.  They stonewall the issue rather than take the time (and $) to research and apply a remedy.  Although there are times when a class action suit can be an effective motivator, it seems to me it has to be a fairly serious safety issue where the federal government is apt to get involved and force the company to address it in a timely manner.

[Toby99]

My Edge Titanium is back from service.  All that was done was reset the adaptive learning on the transmission.  I'm need to drive the vehicle for 1000 -1500 miles for it to learn my driving habits.  That is supposed to fix the problem.  ?  That same reset was done 18 monts ago and did not fix the problem. 

 

Buck/surge is still felt even after the reset. 

 

PM me if you would like another suggestion.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Toby99

[Breez]

Hello all, I  also have the same concern with my 2019, tsbs all done , IDS tests show nothing. At present there is no fix. I think calling Ford, once a month at least, is one way to go. Of course letters to Ford is good advice.

 

 

,

Edited August 25, 2020 by Breez
Info

[dansirois]

I’ve noticed if I shut the a/c off, the low speed bucking is greatly diminished.  Perhaps the engine is not able to handle this load at low speeds??  Just a theory.

[handfiler]

Variable displacement A/C compressors are pretty efficient at idle.

[Toby99]

I tested with a/c off on first drive yesterday am.  Had no affect.  I suspected that since the vehicle still bucks during the winter months when a/c is not used.  Good though to rule out that system.

[dansirois]

When sitting at a red light with a light brake pedal and a/c on, my car lightly jerks/bounces.  With the a/c off, it smooths out considerably.  Coasting At 15 mpg it is not smooth either way. Ford needs to address this! 

[Toby99]

Have a question for those knowledgeable in Ford vehicle technical service.  Here is a cut and past from Edge 8F35 TSB 19-2331.  

 

NOTE: Advise the customer that this vehicle is equipped with an adaptive transmission shift strategy which allows the vehicle's computer to learn the transmission's unique parameters and improve shift quality. When the adaptive strategy is reset, the computer will begin a relearning process. This relearning process may result in firmer than normal upshifts and downshifts for several days.

 

How long does it take for the transmission to learn your driving habits after a PCM reset?   If I'm reading the TSB correctly, it says several days.  Why would my dealer tell me it will take 1000 - 1500 miles vs several days?

[Perblue]

3 hours ago, Toby99 said:

How long does it take for the transmission to learn your driving habits after a PCM reset?   If I'm reading the TSB correctly, it says several days.  Why would my dealer tell me it will take 1000 - 1500 miles vs several days?

 

Because some people might only drive 50-100 in 7 days. You need a fair amount of active driving for it to learn.

[akirby]

6 hours ago, Toby99 said:

Have a question for those knowledgeable in Ford vehicle technical service.  Here is a cut and past from Edge 8F35 TSB 19-2331.  

 

NOTE: Advise the customer that this vehicle is equipped with an adaptive transmission shift strategy which allows the vehicle's computer to learn the transmission's unique parameters and improve shift quality. When the adaptive strategy is reset, the computer will begin a relearning process. This relearning process may result in firmer than normal upshifts and downshifts for several days.

 

How long does it take for the transmission to learn your driving habits after a PCM reset?   If I'm reading the TSB correctly, it says several days.  Why would my dealer tell me it will take 1000 - 1500 miles vs several days?

Because it DOESNT LEARN YOUR DRIVING HABITS!   Sorry for yelling but this is an urban myth that just won’t go away.  Nowhere has Ford ever said that.  Read what Ford said - it simply measures each shift against the factory target and adjusts the shift pressure to keep it in the target range.  This compensates for wear over time and manufacturing tolerances.  And it’s based on gear, throttle position and rpm.  So it takes a long time for normal driving to hit all of those different combinations.

[Toby99]

8 hours ago, akirby said:

Because it DOESNT LEARN YOUR DRIVING HABITS!   Sorry for yelling but this is an urban myth that just won’t go away.  Nowhere has Ford ever said that.  Read what Ford said - it simply measures each shift against the factory target and adjusts the shift pressure to keep it in the target range.  This compensates for wear over time and manufacturing tolerances.  And it’s based on gear, throttle position and rpm.  So it takes a long time for normal driving to hit all of those different combinations.

 

Akirby,

 

I don't doubt what you're saying but that's what I've been told by two different dealer service departments.

 

I just had my Edge Titamiun in again to look at the bucking issue.  According to Ford, they were required to reset the PCM before looking at anything else.  When I picked up the vehicle the service advisor told me to "give it 1000 - 1500 miles for the car to learn my driving habits". 

 

Do you have any documents from Ford you can post that states that?  Would like to take it along and give it the the service advisor on my next visit.

 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Toby99 said:

 

Akirby,

 

I don't doubt what you're saying but that's what I've been told by two different dealer service departments.

 

I just had my Edge Titamiun in again to look at the bucking issue.  According to Ford, they were required to reset the PCM before looking at anything else.  When I picked up the vehicle the service advisor told me to "give it 1000 - 1500 miles for the car to learn my driving habits". 

 

Do you have any documents from Ford you can post that states that?  Would like to take it along and give it the the service advisor on my next visit.

 

That’s because the dealers are just as clueless.   Just look up any reference that a Ford makes to adaptive learning.  None mention driving style or driving habits.  They only say improved shift quality.
 

My information comes from Mark Kovalsky - a retired Ford tranny engineer who worked on the Explorer/Ranger/Lincoln LS 5R55N and later the torqshift truck tranny.  He is a member of our Lincoln LS owners club for 20 years now.  It was his group that was responsible for the shift calibrations and that is how he explained it.  I’ll take his word and Ford’s word over the dealership.  Here is a confirmation about the torqshift but all Ford trannys work the same.

[ktp1598]

I really wish they would put out a program for all edges with the 2 L turbo engine like they have for the ST. The one they came out with in June fixed 99.9 percent of people's cars (ST's) with this issue. If I were a betting man I'd say they're working on the same thing for the two liter. They had put out several other programs to try to fix it before this latest one so maybe they're trying to avoid that and go with a real fix once and for all. I work at Ford (build hoods, have nothing to do with this) and this embarrasses me. They make great vehicles but sometimes get in a rush releasing them or just don't put enough test miles on them. ?

[Johnny B]

On 8/20/2020 at 4:46 PM, dansirois said:

My car was at the dealers service department for two days.  Tech called to say that there is nothing they can do, others have reported the same issue and it is a characteristic of vehicle!  After buying Fords for the past 40 years, this will be my last.

Same with me. I will never buy another after owning six new ones. I have a 2019 and only have 3600 miles on it and am to the point where I'm going to trade it off. I can't believe they are still putting the same transmissions in new ones. I hate driving this thing especially when it's cold.

[dansirois]

I traded my Edge with 614 miles on a demo 2020 Expedition XLT with 1300 miles.  Couldn't deal with the Edge any longer. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by dansirois

[IcyFridge]

On 8/27/2020 at 7:00 PM, dansirois said:

When sitting at a red light with a light brake pedal and a/c on, my car lightly jerks/bounces.  With the a/c off, it smooths out considerably.  Coasting At 15 mpg it is not smooth either way. Ford needs to address this! 

Mine does the same whenever the AC is on. Once the engine is warmed up, it's fine. 

 

[Sacha771]

I have the same jerking problem and lagging response at low speeds in the morning. But I did a test and turned off adaptive cruise control to normal in the menu and the problem stopped completely !!! Now I know that it is not the fault of the gearbox or the engine, but the electronics that drives the car for us,   Please try the same to see if it improves

[ktp1598]

I believe the biggest issue with  bucking and low throttle response is Ford has the transmission trying to stay in too high of a gear. The turbo trys to build boost and the computer opens the waste gate to prevent high boost at low RPMs. Then it does it again. And again till you push harder and it finally downshifts and the program allows higher boost as the engine is spinning faster. Our 2015 Ford Edge sport never had this issue as the RPMs never stayed that low. Guarantee some of the tuners eliminated this problem by keeping the RPMs up a little.

[Toby99]

15 hours ago, Sacha771 said:

I have the same jerking problem and lagging response at low speeds in the morning. But I did a test and turned off adaptive cruise control to normal in the menu and the problem stopped completely !!! Now I know that it is not the fault of the gearbox or the engine, but the electronics that drives the car for us,   Please try the same to see if it improves

 

If you are correct, what does setting adaptive cruise control to normal do if you're not even using cruise control?  I'm driving at 15-20 mph when I feel and see it.  Tach is bouncing.

[Toby99]

1 hour ago, ktp1598 said:

I believe the biggest issue with  bucking and low throttle response is Ford has the transmission trying to stay in too high of a gear. The turbo trys to build boost and the computer opens the waste gate to prevent high boost at low RPMs. Then it does it again. And again till you push harder and it finally downshifts and the program allows higher boost as the engine is spinning faster. Our 2015 Ford Edge sport never had this issue as the RPMs never stayed that low. Guarantee some of the tuners eliminated this problem by keeping the RPMs up a little.

 

Could you put that in a letter and mail to all of Ford's management including Powertrain?

 

Is your high gear suspicion another Ford attempt at meeting mpg requirements just like the engine turning off while vehicle is stopped?

[Kcbbriggs]

I have experienced minor bucking in my 2019 Edge Titanium.  I have never noticed severe bucking or a bouncing tach.  It's more noticeable when it's cold.  I tried setting the driver assist/cruise control to normal and it seems to have helped a lot.  I'll continue to monitor.