Edge Low Speed Surge/Buck - Transmission

[eric1]

Has anyone replaced the whole transmission because of this? If so, how were the results?

 

im still under warranty and am considering trying to convince the dealer to just replace the whole transmission, because no other fix has worked

[Tonycarlo]

23 hours ago, eric1 said:

Has anyone replaced the whole transmission because of this? If so, how were the results?

 

im still under warranty and am considering trying to convince the dealer to just replace the whole transmission, because no other fix has worked

the problem is it may be the rear differential ... thats what my dealer said.... I called ford customer service because

im out of warranty and they offered to cover half the bill about $1000

 

im still going to try the EGR sensor replacement first.....

[eric1]

8 hours ago, Tonycarlo said:

the problem is it may be the rear differential ... thats what my dealer said.... I called ford customer service because

im out of warranty and they offered to cover half the bill about $1000

 

im still going to try the EGR sensor replacement first.....

Ironically I’m getting my rear differential replaced in the next week or two. The dealer told me they ordered me a new one, but it’s currently on back order. I’m covered under warranty so it’s not costing me anything. 
 

I assumed replacing the rear differential really wouldn’t make a difference, but since it’s covered under warranty I don’t mind them doing it. But now that you’re saying your dealer thinks it might be the rear differential as well I’m now very curious if that’ll actually fix it

[Tonycarlo]

13 hours ago, eric1 said:

Ironically I’m getting my rear differential replaced in the next week or two. The dealer told me they ordered me a new one, but it’s currently on back order. I’m covered under warranty so it’s not costing me anything. 
 

I assumed replacing the rear differential really wouldn’t make a difference, but since it’s covered under warranty I don’t mind them doing it. But now that you’re saying your dealer thinks it might be the rear differential as well I’m now very curious if that’ll actually fix it

might as well do it... you're under warranty ...  for me its a huge expense and im already out $1000 for the sparkplugs being changed (my mechanic idea as his computer was showing misfire code )   and the rear diff fluid and reprogramming by ford dealer....which was a total ripoff and i dont know why I agreed to the price....

 

here is the confusing part.... my mechanic said stop putting in 87 octane gas and use 91.... I did this after the ford fluid change and reprogram in June.... they said wait a few days for it to relearn etc.... i waited about 2 weeks and the bucking/stutter problem was almost unnoticeable... i was so happy that my $1000 spent was not wasted.... but then I didnt know was it the gas octane change or the fluid / reprogram?  or both?

 

I ran with 91 gas for about 2 months and then out of nowhere the problem starts again a few weeks ago.... back to square one...  so the gas is not the fix....  but I will keep running with 91 anyway even if its more expensive, my mechanic says dont use 87 or you'l get worse mileage and more issues later....

 

my mechanic is also very skeptical of the rear differential being the problem , he says you would notice way worse driving if it was actually damaged etc.... he thinks its something else....

 

I have noticed a slight grinding noise in the rear diff for years when I make a hard left or right turn.... so maybe its finally worn out or something....

 

the whole experience is very confusing.....

[eric1]

38 minutes ago, Tonycarlo said:

might as well do it... you're under warranty ...  for me its a huge expense and im already out $1000 for the sparkplugs being changed (my mechanic idea as his computer was showing misfire code )   and the rear diff fluid and reprogramming by ford dealer....which was a total ripoff and i dont know why I agreed to the price....

 

here is the confusing part.... my mechanic said stop putting in 87 octane gas and use 91.... I did this after the ford fluid change and reprogram in June.... they said wait a few days for it to relearn etc.... i waited about 2 weeks and the bucking/stutter problem was almost unnoticeable... i was so happy that my $1000 spent was not wasted.... but then I didnt know was it the gas octane change or the fluid / reprogram?  or both?

 

I ran with 91 gas for about 2 months and then out of nowhere the problem starts again a few weeks ago.... back to square one...  so the gas is not the fix....  but I will keep running with 91 anyway even if its more expensive, my mechanic says dont use 87 or you'l get worse mileage and more issues later....

 

my mechanic is also very skeptical of the rear differential being the problem , he says you would notice way worse driving if it was actually damaged etc.... he thinks its something else....

 

I have noticed a slight grinding noise in the rear diff for years when I make a hard left or right turn.... so maybe its finally worn out or something....

 

the whole experience is very confusing.....

Interesting. I had the same issues. When i first brought my car in for the shuddering, they reprogrammed the transmission and replaced the torque converter. That did not help.

 

 

so I brought the car in again last month, expect this time I had two issues:

 

 

1. car was shuddering at lower speeds 

 

2. car would make a grinding noise during sharp turns at low speeds. It would clunk sometimes too. It all sounded like it was coming from the rear differential. So, the same issue that you also have. Check out SSM 49769 and SSM 49571

 

 

 

 

so, the dealer tackled problem 2 first. They replaced the differential fluid. They said that fixed the grinding problem. They said they don’t hear the clunk though, but they’ll keep driving it to see if they can figure it out. 
 

 

next thing I know, they’re ordering a new rear differential unit. Not sure why, because the fluid change fixed it. The rear differential is currently on back order though.

 

i had to drive out of state so they let me use the car while waiting for the rear differential to come in. While driving it, I agree that there is no more grinding noise or clunk coming from the rear differential.

 

so that makes me wonder if they just wanted to replaced the rear differential cuz it’s under warranty and they know they’ll get paid for it? Or did they order it because they think it will fix the shuddering problem?

Edited September 14 by eric1

[Tonycarlo]

31 minutes ago, eric1 said:

Interesting. I had the same issues. When i first brought my car in for the shuddering, they reprogrammed the transmission and replaced the torque converter. That did not help.

 

 

so I brought the car in again last month, expect this time I had two issues:

 

 

1. car was shuddering at lower speeds 

 

2. car would make a grinding noise during sharp turns at low speeds. It would clunk sometimes too. It all sounded like it was coming from the rear differential. So, the same issue that you also have. Check out SSM 49769 and SSM 49571

 

 

yes ive read those bulletins as well..... and yes 100% they make big money on warranty work.... thats what my mechanic said and ive heard many stories about it from others as well....

 

they also cant be bothered to actually find the specific problem so they come up with the easiest and most expensive....change the entire rear differential....

 

one more thing i forgot to mention, ford dealer said if we see metal bits in the old fluid then we know your diff is going or gone....  they said there were no metal bits once they inspected the old fluid......  so that was interesting as well....

 

 

 

Edited September 14 by Tonycarlo

[DGW]

I know this issue is very frustrating and even though it happens to many Ford models and different model years I still do not consider it "normal".  I originally posted about my 2019 Edge surging/bucking at low speed which only happens when the engine/transmission was cold. (page 8: August 9, 2021). It still happens today. As always, in my case it seems to happen in the summer months when the outside temperatures are in the 90's. The issue goes away after a few minutes once I am out of my neighborhood and the Edge has warmed up.  It may happen other times with cooler temperatures but not as severe. Early on there have been TSB's from Ford on the issue but as others have mentioned refreshing the transmission with the latest software did not help.  I have a 20 Escape where the issue has also happened but not to the same extent as my Edge and more recently I just purchased a new 2024 Bronco Sport with the same transmission and 2.0L engine and on very hot days I have experienced the same surging/bucking issue at low speed when starting to drive off from a cold start in the neighborhood. Based on my experience of initially having the Dealer trying to flash the transmission software as Ford recommended and now having 3 Ford models manufactured in different years this is an engineering issue and will not get fixed by throwing parts at the cars. I do not know about the EGR valve where some on the forum has resolved the issue. Their surging/bucking might be different than what I experience and especially with it happening to my brand new BS I doubt it would help me.  So bottom line is I do not know that there is a fix for this. Ford obviously is no longer trying to find a fix and there are many posts on the internet of others having the issue with other Ford models besides the Edge.  I currently have over 40,000 miles since new on my Edge and the issue is still there but has not gotten worse. At this point I try to ignore the surging/bucking and consider it a quirk of the vehicle that happens under certain conditions and only lasts for a few minutes until I am out of the neighborhood and the car warms up. While I know this is not really an answer, as a precaution I purchased the Ford ESP plan in case the issue gets worse.

[eric1]

Stolen from elsewhere:

 

Not sure if everyone is aware, but there is currently an investigation being done for a class action suit on this matter. You can sign up here to get more information: 2019-2021 Lincoln Nautilus & Ford Edge Transmission - Class Action Investigation - Chimicles Schwartz Kriner & Donaldson-Smith LLP.

[Rimcon]

I have a 2020 Edge SEL with a transmission that started bucking at gear changes just shy of 50,000 miles. Dealer says the torque converter needs to be replaced, has ordered the parts 3 weeks ago says they are on back order. Might take several months to come in. Bucking seems to be getting more frequent

[Tonycarlo]

On 9/16/2024 at 6:16 PM, eric1 said:

Stolen from elsewhere:

 

Not sure if everyone is aware, but there is currently an investigation being done for a class action suit on this matter. You can sign up here to get more information: 2019-2021 Lincoln Nautilus & Ford Edge Transmission - Class Action Investigation - Chimicles Schwartz Kriner & Donaldson-Smith LLP.

thanks, this is a ridiculous problem ford should be doing a recall for.... im out $1000 as of right now and still have the problem..... finally got the EGR sensor ordered so will see what happens when my mechanic installs it....will let everyone know in a couple of weeks....

Edited September 19 by Tonycarlo

[eric1]

Here’s a question for those who have more knowledge:

 

im going to try and convince my dealer to give me a whole new transmission on my 19 edge (im covered under warranty). However, since mostly all 2019s have this issue,  wouldn’t I just receive a brand new version of the exact same transmission that has the exact same issues? Or would I somehow receive a brand new, updated & upgraded transmission?

 

I dont know how that all works. Thanks in advance

[DGW]

48 minutes ago, eric1 said:

Here’s a question for those who have more knowledge:

 

im going to try and convince my dealer to give me a whole new transmission on my 19 edge (im covered under warranty). However, since mostly all 2019s have this issue,  wouldn’t I just receive a brand new version of the exact same transmission that has the exact same issues? Or would I somehow receive a brand new, updated & upgraded transmission?

 

I dont know how that all works. Thanks in advance

Should that even happen I would assume since under warranty the dealer would have to convince Ford to approve the repair. Additionally the "new" transmission would most likely be a rebuilt transmission with the latest software version. I believe only brand new cars that are less than a year old would actually receive a brand new transmission.

I personally do not think a new transmission would matter unless the engineers actually changed something in the transmission that is different from yours.  I think that is highly unlikely as I previously mentioned my 2024 Bronco Sport has the same issue and I assume the 24 models would have the latest version of the transmission assuming any changes were made. It may take that class action law suit that you referenced for Ford to come up with a solution that works.

[eric1]

1 hour ago, DGW said:

Should that even happen I would assume since under warranty the dealer would have to convince Ford to approve the repair. Additionally the "new" transmission would most likely be a rebuilt transmission with the latest software version. I believe only brand new cars that are less than a year old would actually receive a brand new transmission.

I personally do not think a new transmission would matter unless the engineers actually changed something in the transmission that is different from yours.  I think that is highly unlikely as I previously mentioned my 2024 Bronco Sport has the same issue and I assume the 24 models would have the latest version of the transmission assuming any changes were made. It may take that class action law suit that you referenced for Ford to come up with a solution that works.

I’ve brought it in twice for this issue, and will be bringing it in for a third time. I have to imagine they’ve run out of “fixes” for it. I’m even getting a new rear differential and I think it’s because they think that might fix the issue. So I can only imagine that the last and final fix would be to just replace the whole transmission. But maybe you’re right and that the transmission will really be no different and will just have the same issues and that’s why they haven’t bothered even suggesting that. 

[Biker]

I think we need a survey of all the people here who have complained to their dealer about this...

Question: who here has complained and had their dealer say "really? We've had no other complaints and Ford isnt aware of a problem". I'd guess everyone had that response at first. 

 

It was the same response I got to my exploding sunroof, but i had already printed out 30 separate examples that i quickly grabbed off google. Gave it to the service guy for some light reading. 

 

[Wubster100]

I wonder if the GM 9T50 gets the same complaints from: 2020– Cadillac XT6 (2.0 T LSY, 3.6 L LGX) 2019– Chevrolet Blazer (2.5 L LCV)[11] 2017– Chevrolet Malibu (2.0 T LTG) 2020– GMC Acadia (2.5 L LCV)[10]

[Tonycarlo]

On 9/19/2024 at 11:47 PM, Biker said:

I think we need a survey of all the people here who have complained to their dealer about this...

Question: who here has complained and had their dealer say "really? We've had no other complaints and Ford isnt aware of a problem". I'd guess everyone had that response at first. 

 

It was the same response I got to my exploding sunroof, but i had already printed out 30 separate examples that i quickly grabbed off google. Gave it to the service guy for some light reading. 

 

my dealer said oh we've seen that before you need a rear diff fluid change and reprogram.... $650 CAD and a few months later I still have the problem....

Edited September 21 by Tonycarlo

[Biker]

7 hours ago, Tonycarlo said:

my dealer said oh we've seen that before you need a rear diff fluid change and reprogram.... $650 CAD and a few months later I still have the problem....

Good lord! How does a fluid change and reflash cost 650??? I'm in Canadia too, it seems most stuff costs more but that's a big one.

[colinc755]

I've been following this thread for awhile now and I thought I would report that finally at this point, the 8f35 in my 2019 Edge is shifting the best it ever has with the car having just over 87,000 miles on the odo and completely original parts, no torque converter change or anything.

 

Each thing that has been suggested here, I have done overtime and I think it has added up to the success of fixing the problem, so I do think just about everything is necessary. 

1. I have thoroughly replaced the fluid on this transmission through non-invasive fluid changes using only Mercon ULV. I am particularly strict on this one as my interval for it is every summer (not miles based). I do this partly because its cheap to do DIY and the fluid breaks down with heat. Living in Texas, the summers are pretty brutal as well as the traffic so I give it a refresh right when its needed most. 

2. I got all the transmission flashes to update it as they came out since 2019. This honestly for me made a pretty big difference, especially the latest one. I can observe in ForScan that the transmission skips 2nd gear every single time now (effectively making it a 7-speed). This eliminates the rough 1-2-3 shift that was so common right when these came out

3. I did have the rear diff vibration on turning problem that started around '22 and did a fluid replacement in the rear diff in the summer of '23. Never got it reflashed, but it has gone away since then and I didn't observe any metal shavings in the old fluid. 

4. Replaced the spark plugs a year ago and continue to do oil changes with only motorcraft oil and filters every 5k miles to keep the engine in peak condition. If you're over 50k and are on original plugs you'd be shocked at what a difference they make even if the interval is 100k.

5. Replaced the purge valve when it became problematic. Had the car stall once after a full tank fill and a new valve was in the next day. (That was more of a pain than people would lead you to believe getting the whole assembly out)

6. Replaced the EGR Sensor while I was doing the Purge Valve. This was something I was skeptical of, but I figured it was easy to do so might as well try it. 

 

Those are what's been done in terms of powertrain to this car and I'll say that it has made it much better to drive. I would say the fluid did 50% of the work while the update did 30% and the sensor at the end made it that much smoother. With the EGR sensor, I think you'll have better luck swapping it if you have an early build. Mine was built 09/2018 as a 2019MY so very early as far as that sensor was concerned. It is important to set expectations as these transmissions are never going to shift as smooth as what is in other makes. When I say my 8f35 is shifting smooth, it's not shifting like Toyota, its shifting like a healthy 6f35 would. While that is a crappy response to some of the general roughness, that's just the nature of the beast with getting a first MY transmission. The maintenance of these transmission is a lot, but I'd say is critical to getting this solved and making them last for awhile. Anyone that's got a 2021+, I'd probably focus energy on getting that fluid changed early and often as well as a learning reset. Not sure if this write up will help anyone, but I thought it would be good to show that the bucking was stopped totally DIY outside of the updates. 

Edited September 22 by colinc755

[DGW]

7 hours ago, colinc755 said:

I've been following this thread for awhile now and I thought I would report that finally at this point, the 8f35 in my 2019 Edge is shifting the best it ever has with the car having just over 87,000 miles on the odo and completely original parts, no torque converter change or anything.

 

Each thing that has been suggested here, I have done overtime and I think it has added up to the success of fixing the problem, so I do think just about everything is necessary. 

1. I have thoroughly replaced the fluid on this transmission through non-invasive fluid changes using only Mercon ULV. I am particularly strict on this one as my interval for it is every summer (not miles based). I do this partly because its cheap to do DIY and the fluid breaks down with heat. Living in Texas, the summers are pretty brutal as well as the traffic so I give it a refresh right when its needed most. 

2. I got all the transmission flashes to update it as they came out since 2019. This honestly for me made a pretty big difference, especially the latest one. I can observe in ForScan that the transmission skips 2nd gear every single time now (effectively making it a 7-speed). This eliminates the rough 1-2-3 shift that was so common right when these came out

3. I did have the rear diff vibration on turning problem that started around '22 and did a fluid replacement in the rear diff in the summer of '23. Never got it reflashed, but it has gone away since then and I didn't observe any metal shavings in the old fluid. 

4. Replaced the spark plugs a year ago and continue to do oil changes with only motorcraft oil and filters every 5k miles to keep the engine in peak condition. If you're over 50k and are on original plugs you'd be shocked at what a difference they make even if the interval is 100k.

5. Replaced the purge valve when it became problematic. Had the car stall once after a full tank fill and a new valve was in the next day. (That was more of a pain than people would lead you to believe getting the whole assembly out)

6. Replaced the EGR Sensor while I was doing the Purge Valve. This was something I was skeptical of, but I figured it was easy to do so might as well try it. 

 

Those are what's been done in terms of powertrain to this car and I'll say that it has made it much better to drive. I would say the fluid did 50% of the work while the update did 30% and the sensor at the end made it that much smoother. With the EGR sensor, I think you'll have better luck swapping it if you have an early build. Mine was built 09/2018 as a 2019MY so very early as far as that sensor was concerned. It is important to set expectations as these transmissions are never going to shift as smooth as what is other makes. When I say my 8f35 is shifting smooth, it's not shifting like Toyota, its shifting like a healthy 6f35 would. While that is a crappy response to some of the general roughness, that's just the nature of the beast with getting a first MY transmission. The maintenance of these transmission is a lot, but I'd say is critical to getting this solved and making them last for awhile. Anyone that's got a 2021+, I'd probably focus energy on getting that fluid changed early and often as well as a learning reset. Not sure if this write up will help anyone, but I thought it would be good to show that the bucking was stopped totally DIY outside of the updates. 

Do you own an EDGE ST?  I believe that is the only version of the Edge where the 8F35 transmission was changed to a 7 speed transmission through the software. If not when was the last software update that you received that changed the 8F35 to a 7 speed transmission? I was not aware that Ford had eliminated the 2nd gear in the other Edge trims. Is there any place to actually look up the different transmission updates, when they came out and what they did? If the update that allowed the transmission to skip the 2nd gear is still only for the ST line version the dealer will not be able to update my Titanium with that update unless Ford made an update for the other trims that incorporated the skipping of the 2nd gear.

[Tonycarlo]

14 hours ago, Biker said:

Good lord! How does a fluid change and reflash cost 650??? I'm in Canadia too, it seems most stuff costs more but that's a big one.

agree.... dont know why I said yes to it but I trusted they know what they are doing.... that was a mistake...

[dabangsta]

3 hours ago, DGW said:

Do you own an EDGE ST?  I believe that is the only version of the Edge where the 8F35 transmission was changed to a 7 speed transmission through the software. If not when was the last software update that you received that changed the 8F35 to a 7 speed transmission? I was not aware that Ford had eliminated the 2nd gear in the other Edge trims. Is there any place to actually look up the different transmission updates, when they came out and what they did? If the update that allowed the transmission to skip the 2nd gear is still only for the ST line version the dealer will not be able to update my Titanium with that update unless Ford made an update for the other trims that incorporated the skipping of the 2nd gear.

The ST has the 8F57 (the 35 and 57 are torque handling numbers, I don't think I have seen cold hard facts on that, that it is *10 nm after torque multiplication from the torque converter (so 350 nm for the 8F35 and 570 nm for the 8F57).

 

the 380 ft lb that the ST puts out is 517nm, which seems it would be low as most torque converters do 1.5-2.5 multiplication, so who knows. The 2.0 puts out 275.

[colinc755]

5 hours ago, DGW said:

Do you own an EDGE ST?  I believe that is the only version of the Edge where the 8F35 transmission was changed to a 7 speed transmission through the software. If not when was the last software update that you received that changed the 8F35 to a 7 speed transmission? I was not aware that Ford had eliminated the 2nd gear in the other Edge trims. Is there any place to actually look up the different transmission updates, when they came out and what they did? If the update that allowed the transmission to skip the 2nd gear is still only for the ST line version the dealer will not be able to update my Titanium with that update unless Ford made an update for the other trims that incorporated the skipping of the 2nd gear.

No I do not have an ST and that's why this got me curious. Just serving from memory, I think November of 2021 was the latest one...could be wrong on that. I think this is something Ford has silently done to fix the issue. When ForScan is watching what gear you're in there is no circumstance I can get it to go to 2 no matter what surface or throttle level I give it. The only way to get it into 2 is to go into "S" and select it with the paddle shifters where I think the new ST's would still only be 7 in manual mode. If you have ForScan go into the data readout section and select "GEAR_ENGAGED" and take it for a spin. Maybe it has something to do with the learning cycle, but drive is skipping 2 always. Also worth noting I have a Titanium AWD so it's an 8f35. The ST Line powertrain is no different than the standard as well so any updates to those would also be applicable to a Titanium. If your Edge was built after March 11, 2021, I don't think the TSB applies. 

Edited September 22 by colinc755

[DGW]

55 minutes ago, colinc755 said:

No I do not have an ST and that's why this got me curious. Just serving from memory, I think November of 2021 was the latest one...could be wrong on that. I think this is something Ford has silently done to fix the issue. When ForScan is watching what gear you're in there is no circumstance I can get it to go to 2 no matter what surface or throttle level I give it. The only way to get it into 2 is to go into "S" and select it with the paddle shifters where I think the new ST's would still only be 7 in manual mode. If you have ForScan go into the data readout section and select "GEAR_ENGAGED" and take it for a spin. Maybe it has something to do with the learning cycle, but drive is skipping 2 always. Also worth noting I have a Titanium AWD so it's an 8f35. The ST Line powertrain is no different than the standard as well so any updates to those would also be applicable to a Titanium. If your Edge was built after March 11, 2021, I don't think the TSB applies. 

Mine was built at the end of 2019.  I think that the last update I had was May 2021 but I would have to go back to my dealer paper work to be sure.  I do not have ForScan. I really do think that skipping the 2nd gear would go a long way in addressing the issue.  That is what really interested me about your post.  I wonder if Ford has made any additional software updates since 2021.  I will have to go back to my dealer's service writer and ask if he can tell if I have the latest software version.

[Tonycarlo]

changed the EGR sensor yesterday, no difference in driving out of my mechanics.... will give it another few days....

 

next up will be the TSB 21-2081  to reprogram the powertrain module.... 

[Rimcon]

Edge Member

 1

Posted September 18

I have a 2020 Edge SEL with a transmission that started bucking at gear changes just shy of 50,000 miles. Dealer says the torque converter needs to be replaced, has ordered the parts 3 weeks ago says they are on back order. Might take several months to come in. Bucking seems to be getting more frequent
 

update: I finally called Ford Customer Care they made several calls with me on the line and advised the torque converter would be shipped to my dealer on the 27 th. Hopefully I can get this done next week and it will work.