Edge Low Speed Surge/Buck - Transmission

[Toby99]

20 hours ago, eric1 said:

Have you tried it yourself? I’m considering trying it myself 

 

No I haven't.  I am considering trying it if dealership refuses to under warranty.  I'm always told it's "normal operation".

 

I would like to know if there are any reprogramming requirements or is it just a remove and replace of components?

Edited July 3 by Toby99

[Toby99]

Found this article on Ford Ranger bucking/surging.  Details on replacing DPFE sensor.

 

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/egr-dpfe-sensor-assembly-replacement-write-up-lb5z-9j433-b.29247/

 

Appears Ford engineered this issue into other models too.

[DGW]

1 hour ago, Toby99 said:

Found this article on Ford Ranger bucking/surging.  Details on replacing DPFE sensor.

 

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/egr-dpfe-sensor-assembly-replacement-write-up-lb5z-9j433-b.29247/

 

Appears Ford engineered this issue into other models too.

Yes, my 20 Escape and brand new 24 Bronco Sport have both exhibited the same issue which for me is starting out with car engine/transmission cold and outside temperature is warm. Worse with temperature in the 90's. All vehicles have the same 2.0L engine and the same 8-speed 8F35 transmission. As Toby99 said I have been told that Ford decided  that it is normal for the transmission since the software flashing did not work.  I am a bit skeptical that replacing the DPFE sensor is a the fix that we have all been waiting for since I felt the issue in my Bronco Sport which only has a 1000 miles on it.  

[joepipe]

20 hours ago, Toby99 said:

 

No I haven't.  I am considering trying it if dealership refuses to under warranty.  I'm always told it's "normal operation".

 

I would like to know if there are any reprogramming requirements or is it just a remove and replace of components?

im considering changing the dpfe sensor first and if that doesnt work the EGR valve too ...its alot more expensive....im going to order non ford oem ,  standard motor products is what i found on searches....should be ok

 

there are PDF files in the previous pages with diagrams and it doesnt seem that complicated,  remove the negative terminal connection  on your battery first .....  then remove screw and clips for hoses etc.  plug in the new dpfe and egr to connectors and put hoses back . If your mechanic does it they will probably charge 1 hour labor .... maybe half hour if you are lucky

 

Ive already spent 1000 dollars canadian or about 700 USD on new sparkplugs , rear differential fluid and new programming as per mechanic and dealer advice.... still have the problem although its a bit better now , seems like 89 octane gas  helps a bit as 87 I was using before.... doesnt run as rough ....

 

 

Edited July 4 by joepipe

[untethered]

35 minutes ago, joepipe said:

im considering changing the dpfe sensor first and if that doesnt work the EGR valve too ...its alot more expensive....im going to order non ford oem ,  standard motor products is what i found on searches....should be ok

 

there are PDF files in the previous pages with diagrams and it doesnt seem that complicated,  remove the negative terminal connection  on your battery first .....  then remove screw and clips for hoses etc.  plug in the new dpfe and egr to connectors and put hoses back . If your mechanic does it they will probably charge 1 hour labor .... maybe half hour if you are lucky

 

Ive already spent 1000 dollars canadian or about 700 USD on new sparkplugs , rear differential fluid and new programming as per mechanic and dealer advice.... still have the problem although its a bit better now , seems like 89 octane gas  helps a bit as 87 I was using before.... doesnt run as rough ....

 

 

Are you having the symptoms the diag post mentioned like being unable to hold a steady 1500rpm in neutral? It seems like this fix hinges on the engine being unable to manage itself with fluttering. If the engine is completely smooth and fine when disconnected from the transmission, I can’t imagine this would fix that. 

[untethered]

2 hours ago, DGW said:

Yes, my 20 Escape and brand new 24 Bronco Sport have both exhibited the same issue which for me is starting out with car engine/transmission cold and outside temperature is warm. Worse with temperature in the 90's. All vehicles have the same 2.0L engine and the same 8-speed 8F35 transmission. As Toby99 said I have been told that Ford decided  that it is normal for the transmission since the software flashing did not work.  I am a bit skeptical that replacing the DPFE sensor is a the fix that we have all been waiting for since I felt the issue in my Bronco Sport which only has a 1000 miles on it.  

Agreed. Not doubting that there are vehicles that can benefit from this, but it seems the 8f35 is just a rough transmission plain and simple. Since it was developed with GM, I wonder if any of the sister transmissions to the 8f35 have issues like this too.

[DGW]

5 hours ago, untethered said:

Are you having the symptoms the diag post mentioned like being unable to hold a steady 1500rpm in neutral? It seems like this fix hinges on the engine being unable to manage itself with fluttering. If the engine is completely smooth and fine when disconnected from the transmission, I can’t imagine this would fix that. 

Ok, so we are probably talking about more than one surge/bucking issue on this thread and based on your comment the EGR will not fix the issue I am having with my Ford's which is surging only when the cars are cold as I am driving out of my neighborhood below 20 mph. I can keep the rpm's at 1500 with the car in neutral. Once out of the neighborhood and on the roads which are generally 45 mph the cars act normally and the issue does not reappear until the car has sat long enough for the engine/transmission to be cold again. As the dealer said there is nothing more they can do for me.  It is just the way the transmissions are and having 3 different Ford models with the same issue and one of them being brand new I would have to agree it is normal as far as Ford is concerned. That said I do not believe that the issue is normal but as long as it is not (in my case) getting worse there is nothing Ford is going to do. 

[joepipe]

21 hours ago, untethered said:

Are you having the symptoms the diag post mentioned like being unable to hold a steady 1500rpm in neutral? It seems like this fix hinges on the engine being unable to manage itself with fluttering. If the engine is completely smooth and fine when disconnected from the transmission, I can’t imagine this would fix that. 

no i didnt do that test....but my issue is slow acceleration or light pedal touch and stutter / jerking.....   so the next thing i will try is the dpfe sensor and egr valve

[eric1]

On 5/25/2024 at 5:19 PM, Haz said:

Attached below as PDF documents are the EGR and DPFE sensor removal and installation procedures for 2.0L EcoBoost from the 2019 Edge Workshop Manual, and, location illustrations from the 2019 Edge Wiring resource...

 

Good luck!

 

Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve - Removal and Installation - 2019 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf 1.59 MB · 13 downloads Differential Pressure Feedback Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Sensor - Removal and Installation - 2019 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf 215.94 kB · 18 downloads EXHAUST GAS RECIRCULATION (EGR) VALVE - 2.0L EcoBoost Location - 2019 Edge.pdf 1.33 MB · 9 downloads Differential Pressure Feedback Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Sensor - 2.0L EcoBoost Location - 2019 Edge.pdf 1.33 MB · 9 downloads

 

does the egr sensor consist of valves too? Or is it just the sensor? I’m looking to replace the sensor but not sure if I need to replace these valves too
 

 

In your egr sensor removal diagram it looks like it contains valves too, but when I look up the sensor to purchase it, I just see the sensor

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20 by eric1

[Haz]

@eric1: You are correct that in the text you quoted, I should've included the word 'valve" after "EGR" to be consistent with that previously attached "Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve" Workshop Manual section...

 

 

I regret that my omission of the word "valve" unnecessarily lengthened your path toward resolving your Edge's issue.

 

Good luck!

 

Edited July 20 by Haz

[T. Tomlinson]

Today's date is July 25, 2024.  I feel so foolish not to have even looked for this forum before today.  We purchased a 2019 Edge- started the bucking and jumping within months of purchase.  Same results of everyone else- dealer said they could not duplicate problem- for four years now we have asked to have car looked at, fixed, please, please evaluate- I have expressed fear of car dying in the middle of intersection- no help from local service department.  Now with warranty expired- possibly we need a catalytic converter- at a nice price. the missing and bucking has become so advanced- i am afraid to drive car more than just in town. We are so disappointed in our Ford and in our local dealership.  After reading the pages of the same complaint- there isn't anyway the service departments have not been aware of this issue.  Nothing to be done- but I do feel better knowing there are others and being able to vent!

[Carlos Diaz]

I found this forum weeks ago when my 2019 ford Edge SEL 2WD started displaying the shudder / buck / Jerk of the transmission at all times when started accelerating up until about 50 mph.  I love the car otherwise which I bought used from a non-Ford Dealership with 14K miles on it and have loved it until this started happening.  I read about the owner who solved the problem by changing the EGR valve.  I printed out the information with the steps he kindly published and brought it to my mechanic.  Since my Edge has now 64K miles on it, I asked him to service the transmission first and if that did not solve the problem, to change the EGR valve at my risk. He had it for three days waiting for the parts.  I got it back yesterday. He told me the problem persisted. However, I have been driving it for the past two days and it really diminished it about 80 per cent.  Before doing that, I took a road trip planned which I did not cancel.  I drove over 2300 miles on one week through two states with the annoying transmission jerk and experienced no other issues.  So, your car will not break for driving it like that.  I feel it has more power now after servicing the transmission and changing the EGR valve. It is again a pleasure to drive it.  My mechanic did some research and pointed out the existence of a Technical Service Bulletin for all the Ford edge built before 11 Mar 2021. It says it supersedes TSB 21-2081.  I suspect it may work also for newer models with the 8F35 transmission. It basically says to reprogram and update the software for the transmission.  He said he had a place that will do it for about $400. Since my Edge improved significantly with the transmission service and the EGR change, I will not spend the money on the upgrade now, but definitely plan to do it in the future. I am happy with the great improvement and how it drives again now.  Some jerking is still there but barely noticeable.  I wish I would have done it before my road trip.  If anybody reading this, have it done by Ford or any other facility and it really eliminates the jerking completely, please share.  I will do so once I have the reprogramming and update done. I hope that is the solution we all have been hoping for.  But again, replacing the EGR valve helped a lot. 

[DanEdge82]

Hi all. I’m new here but I’ve been lurking for some time. I have a 2019 Edge Titanium with about 85k miles. No warranty. No extended warranty. No DTC codes to speak of. 

 

I’ve only had it for a year but it’s been bucking/surging for most of that time. I’ve read through this thread and the Ranger forum threads on this issue, and I’m about to start trying to address it, bit by bit. I fear I will have no success in the long run, but I’m trying to stay positive.

 

In no particular order, these are the areas I’m going to focus on, for better or worse.

1. Transmission fluid. I don’t think the original owner ever changed it, so this is near the top of my list for the next week. I’ll ask the shop to drain and fill twice if it still comes out too dark. 
2. DPFE Sensor. Seems like a long shot that this could truly be the culprit. I have one arriving today from Rock Auto. I have the tool to disconnect the hoses so this should be fairly easy to tackle.

edited Aug 10: changed DPFE. Bit of a pain to get those hoses loose but otherwise it was easy. Unfortunately, no notable improvement for me. 

3. Related to the above, the EGR Valve. I want to peek at it and see how dirty it is. Will clean if possible and replace if absolutely necessary.

4. Throttle body. Not saying this is remotely related, but the TB in my old Fusion had gone out and so I was thinking about the one in my Edge. It’s easy enough to pull out and clean safely, so I might as well do it. No indication that this is actually defective, though.

5. PCM firmware. In February, I paid for Forscan and flashed the PCM. Risky shit, and probably better to have a shop do it. I do not recommend doing it yourself and am not responsible for anyone who does it. Anyway, it went fine, but didn’t fix the issue. Just noting it here since there have been a few TSBs about that. According to Forscan, I still have the latest version.

6 - 98. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TBD. Any other things I am missing that others have tried. I don’t recall them right now, but I’ll try just about anything, up to…

99. Torque converter. If it comes down to this, I’m probably just going to sell the car. At this point we’re talking about a major replacement I can’t do myself and hours upon hours of paid labor. 

 

Will let you all know how it goes, but if anyone has any other recommendations, feel free to reply and I’ll add it to my list.
 

 

 

Also genuine thanks to Robert for fixing the login issue so I could post here

Edited August 10 by DanEdge82
changed DPFE.

[stir]

Same issues...2020 ford edge with 44,000 miles. The tach jumps a few hundred rps's between every shift. They tried saying that was normal but when I asked them to show me any other car on the lot that does that, he never questioned that again. I have the bucking and jerking in the lower gears. I've been to the dealership 3 times and had the TSBs done. They finally replaced the torque converter (which I thought would fix the issue) but that did not fix the issue either. I'm letting it go a couple weeks so they can't say it has anything to do with the learning part after the TSB. Beyond frustrated with Ford. He did suspect another issue but he said that wasn't covered under warranty so he didn't check whatever it was. 

[steelwalk42]

I bought a 2019 Ford Edge Titanium brand new. I had it in twice for the same problem  a couple years ago and they couldn’t replicate it and honestly it hasn’t been doing it until the last couple weeks. Now my car has about 41k miles and of course no warranty. Initially I thought I got a bad tank of gas. However, it has not improved.

 

After speaking to a friend who is not a Ford mechanic but is a mechanic, he said Ford had trouble with their Fusion and Escape with the transmission shudder that caused this exact problem.

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10189788-0001.pdf

 

We are gonna try to get a computer and work on it tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

 

Edited August 9 by steelwalk42

[eric1]

On 8/9/2024 at 5:22 PM, steelwalk42 said:

I bought a 2019 Ford Edge Titanium brand new. I had it in twice for the same problem  a couple years ago and they couldn’t replicate it and honestly it hasn’t been doing it until the last couple weeks. Now my car has about 41k miles and of course no warranty. Initially I thought I got a bad tank of gas. However, it has not improved.

 

After speaking to a friend who is not a Ford mechanic but is a mechanic, he said Ford had trouble with their Fusion and Escape with the transmission shudder that caused this exact problem.

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10189788-0001.pdf

 

We are gonna try to get a computer and work on it tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

 

 

That TSB is outdated. TSB 21-2389 supersedes the one you posted (TSB 21-2081).

[Boscee]

I have a 2019 Ford Edge Titanium (89,000) miles which has recently started bucking at low speeds which there are no codes indicating an issue. Not sure what’s going on. After reading some of the thread it appears this is a common issue. 

[Biker]

On 8/19/2024 at 6:40 PM, Boscee said:

I have a 2019 Ford Edge Titanium (89,000) miles which has recently started bucking at low speeds which there are no codes indicating an issue. Not sure what’s going on. After reading some of the thread it appears this is a common issue. 

I have the same vehicle. 143,000 kms. I bought it with 53,000 on it and it has had the same driveability issue since I've owned it. Turbo replaced, trans and transfer case (PTU) oil changed, most recent trans software update done. None of it helped driveability. 

Thanks to this thread, I bought an EGR pressure feedback sensor and installed it today. Bought the complete assembly with the bracket, hoses and clamps, from the dealer. For the first time since owning it, my Edge is buck-free, no more lag, weird trans shifting etc. 

[Kens Edge]

The bucking and surging at very low speeds has plagued my Ford Edge since the first day I got the SUV back in Nov 2019.  They reprogrammed the TCM probably 2 - 3 times and also replaced the transmission due to what they thought was a torque converter problem.  None of those repairs ever fixed the bucking/surging issues at slow speeds.  However after seeing your post I also just replaced the exhaust gas recirculation valve assembly (sensor along with the 2 preconnected rubber hoses and clamps) just 2 days ago.  It now does seems to shift better at low speeds with no bucking but I have to drive it for another few weeks to be 100% sure that resolved my problem as well.  Thank you for your post as this issue has been driving me crazy for almost 5 years.

 

For my 2019 Ford Edge, 2.0L engine I ordered Ford P/N K2GZ-9J433-C (Valve Exhaust)

[Biker]

On 8/29/2024 at 12:22 PM, Kens Edge said:

The bucking and surging at very low speeds has plagued my Ford Edge since the first day I got the SUV back in Nov 2019.  They reprogrammed the TCM probably 2 - 3 times and also replaced the transmission due to what they thought was a torque converter problem.  None of those repairs ever fixed the bucking/surging issues at slow speeds.  However after seeing your post I also just replaced the exhaust gas recirculation valve assembly (sensor along with the 2 preconnected rubber hoses and clamps) just 2 days ago.  It now does seems to shift better at low speeds with no bucking but I have to drive it for another few weeks to be 100% sure that resolved my problem as well.  Thank you for your post as this issue has been driving me crazy for almost 5 years.

 

For my 2019 Ford Edge, 2.0L engine I ordered Ford P/N K2GZ-9J433-C (Valve Exhaust)

Excellent! Mine has been a couple weeks now, and I just put 1200 kms on it for a work trip. Still no sign of the bucking issue it had. The 8 speed trans combined with a turbo four in a beefy little vehicle does make for a touchy first 3 gears, but I can live with that. It may not be the most refined combo, but I believe it works well.

Prior to the egr fix, I could not hold it at steady light throttle without horrible bucking and watching the tach bounce around. Even in neutral, it was impossible to hold the throttle at 1500 rpm. The rpms would just take off on their own. 

Fuel mileage is better and I actually enjoy driving it now. 

[Throws1]

Bucking Edge. I hope you welcome me to the party that seems to have been going for 5 years....

I have a 2019 Edge SE, 2.0 GTDI. It started with a check engine light but no performance issue although the bucking my have started less noticeably. I had the code checked and it was determined by a non-Ford mechanic that the EVAP purge valve was the problem. The code indicated that the valve might be the issue. Anyways, now the bucking is a problem and you can see it on the tachometer. This is new. It just bounces 100-200 rpms. I see people talking about the transmission, but why would rpms jump due to that? Could the bad evap valve have thrown off the system performance?

[Biker]

19 hours ago, Throws1 said:

Bucking Edge. I hope you welcome me to the party that seems to have been going for 5 years....

I have a 2019 Edge SE, 2.0 GTDI. It started with a check engine light but no performance issue although the bucking my have started less noticeably. I had the code checked and it was determined by a non-Ford mechanic that the EVAP purge valve was the problem. The code indicated that the valve might be the issue. Anyways, now the bucking is a problem and you can see it on the tachometer. This is new. It just bounces 100-200 rpms. I see people talking about the transmission, but why would rpms jump due to that? Could the bad evap valve have thrown off the system performance?

Welcome to the party...If you read back a few pages, someone discovered that moisture gets into one of the EGR sensors which is the cause of the bucking for some people. Others have actual transmission issues, but the EGR sensor solved it for me. 

So, it could be coincidental with the purge valve issue, but the engine management systems all interact to some degree, so I wouldn't be surprised if the purge valve is causing your problem. 

 

My take on it is that the turbo 4cyl engines are very sensitive to sensor inputs. Before boost hits, there is not much torque being produced. If a sensor delays or diminishes boost, the engine requires more throttle input which definitely affects transmission shifting. 

[Tonycarlo]

On 9/3/2024 at 5:03 PM, Biker said:

Welcome to the party...If you read back a few pages, someone discovered that moisture gets into one of the EGR sensors which is the cause of the bucking for some people. Others have actual transmission issues, but the EGR sensor solved it for me. 

So, it could be coincidental with the purge valve issue, but the engine management systems all interact to some degree, so I wouldn't be surprised if the purge valve is causing your problem. 

 

My take on it is that the turbo 4cyl engines are very sensitive to sensor inputs. Before boost hits, there is not much torque being produced. If a sensor delays or diminishes boost, the engine requires more throttle input which definitely affects transmission shifting. 

Was it the egr valve or DPFE sensor that was replaced? Or both? Thanks...

[Biker]

20 hours ago, Tonycarlo said:

Was it the egr valve or DPFE sensor that was replaced? Or both? Thanks...

I only replaced the DPFE sensor. Good thread on it here: https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/whats-inside-a-dpfe-sensor-pics-inside.26792/

[Tonycarlo]

17 hours ago, Biker said:

I only replaced the DPFE sensor. Good thread on it here: https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/whats-inside-a-dpfe-sensor-pics-inside.26792/

ok thanks, that looks like the EGR valve sensor not the DPFE though?

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/smp-vp41?srsltid=AfmBOopBtSaOPN6WeosR05aPsVf8VRPZbNHboyBZ_RkxMJAgK9XnKHPj