Edge Low Speed Surge/Buck - Transmission

[DGW]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:21 AM, chipdog4 said:

 

It's been about 18 months and 17,000 miles and it's still going great. 

I never got any official receipt of what work they performed. 

I do have to wonder if with this new low viscosity transmission fluid, if the additives don't go bad after a certain time period and that could be contributing to the shudder too, like the 4R70W in the mid 90s.  I do plan to change the fluid every 25 to 30,000 miles from now on.

When you were getting the surge/buck over the winter was it only when the Edge was cold?  That is what mine does. Only surge/buck with the engine cold. It mostly happened as the outside temperatures got hot but I am getting it now as the temperatures are cooling off. Don't remember that happening before.  Also only happens when car is cold so the dealer would not be able to duplicate the surge/buck unless I left over night.  Did your surge/buck become more constant in February?

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SCMnMVIkc-2j9rBFqZgFB9cTtsFNZQGp/view?usp=drive_link

[pioter]

in my case problem was with DPFE sensor. hard shifting  and jerking at about 2000 RPM at constant speed.

sensor : 2261799 ,KA1A-5L200-AB , KA1Z-5L200-A

[timbhmaxx22@gmail.com]

does anyone know of any recalls or anything about the 8f35 transmission in the edge titanium? ecoboost jerking, bucking, shifting problems? if so has anyone found a fix for this? thanks

Edited February 11 by timbhmaxx22@gmail.com

[dabangsta]

Depends on the year, but you use most of the words from this TSB (buck, jerk): https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10203649-0001.pdf It is 1 hour labor to read the strategy and flash the PCM if you are not covered by the factory warranty or extended warranty.

[timbhmaxx22@gmail.com]

thanks for the reply, no warranty i reported the problem 3 times ate different ford dealers but only one had a transmission tech he said it was the transmission computer and i was given the choice of leaving the car there until my turn or leaving and they call when my turn is ready but 5 weeks later they call i had went over my warranty mileage by 78 miles and then they said it was no longer covered. so no warranty.   i found a lot of other edge owners with this same problem some suggested using Forscan to fix it but i have no idea how. 

[TourGuide]

Recalls kick in when someone is going to die - basically.  Sad but it has been repeatedly shown to be truth in my observation.

[pstrdenver]

I just bought a 2019 Ford Edge Se. It was a fleet vehicle that has 180k miles on it. However the transmission and engine have both been replaced. The "new" trans has just under 100k on it and the new engine has 45k on it. Both were done at a dealership. 

Much to my dismay, mine bucks at slow speeds just like talked about in this thread. It seems to do it whether warm or cold. If I accelerate a little more aggressive you don't feel it but if you are just slowly coming up to speed it is very evident.

It seems that it is a torque convertor issue from reading this thread. I do not have a warranty and I'm sure since I am not the original owner the Ford Service Dept that did the engine and trans swap won't help either.

What kind of cash should I expect to shell out to get a new torque convertor?

 

pstrdenver

[rafeeki]

3 hours ago, pstrdenver said:

I just bought a 2019 Ford Edge Se. It was a fleet vehicle that has 180k miles on it. However the transmission and engine have both been replaced. The "new" trans has just under 100k on it and the new engine has 45k on it. Both were done at a dealership. 

Much to my dismay, mine bucks at slow speeds just like talked about in this thread. It seems to do it whether warm or cold. If I accelerate a little more aggressive you don't feel it but if you are just slowly coming up to speed it is very evident.

It seems that it is a torque convertor issue from reading this thread. I do not have a warranty and I'm sure since I am not the original owner the Ford Service Dept that did the engine and trans swap won't help either.

What kind of cash should I expect to shell out to get a new torque convertor?

 

pstrdenver

Before you write off the dealership that installed the engine present your case to them, it may be a simple update instead of any thing else. That was the case with mine and it worked fine.

GLTA

Rafeek

[Tim W. AZ]

I just upgraded from a 2016 to a 2020 Titanium, FWD and I experience the same issue. I live in the Phoenix area so it's always warm, so it clears up pretty quickly. I thought it was because of quick shifting from the lower gears, thats how quickly it clears up.

[eric1]

Have the same issue. 2019 Ford Edge Titanium 2.0L AWD with 80k miles.

Transmission has been acting up like everyone else’s for the past 15-20k miles at least. I know transmission work is costly so I was scared to have it looked at - until I realized I’m still under powertrain warranty lol. I bought my car certified pre owned and still have powertrain coverage from that, fortunately. Took it to a Ford dealer and they updated the transmission (in relation to TSB 21-2389), and the tech said that it did not fix the problem. They then said the torque converter would need replaced, and since that is covered under warranty, I agreed.

At the time of writing this, they have had my car for the past 28 days. Not sure why it’s taking so long, but fortunately I was provided a loaner vehicle. I’m curious if they found more problems.

 

————

 

UPDATE.

My Edge was finally ready for pickup 28 days after dropping it off. Torque converter was replaced under warranty and I just had to pay the $100 deductible. The jerking feels a bit subdued, but it is definitely still there. 

 

Edited July 1 by eric1

[Gbrown]

Was this ever resolved? I have a 2019 Edge with the bucking problem 

Thanks for any update 

[EdgeEGRIssue]

Good news, I have confirmed Pioter's findings at my Ford dealership.  My surge/bucking issue was caused by the Differential Pressure Feedback EGR (DPFE) Sensor.  I read through this entire 5 year topic and conducted several of the test noted and provided my dealership the below write-up:

------------------------------------

To help with your troubleshooting, I have done some diagnostics over the past couple weeks and offer the following notes:

Issue: 

Vehicle has hesitation on soft acceleration and shutters/bucks at low speed cruise conditions (15-35 MPH).  Situation is most prominent after first start of the day but has progressed to the point it can be felt almost anytime.  All modules were evaluated for DTC codes with none present.

Observations:

Conducted series of live parameter monitoring on vehicle through OBDII and noticed the accelerator pedal signal is “noisy” between 1000 and 2000 RPM.  This can be seen without reader in the tachometer reading by placing foot on brake and selecting Neutral.  Attempt to hold engine speed at 1500 RPM using accelerator pedal and notice tachometer jumps around as well audible indication that engine speed is fluctuating rapidly.  Would only expect speed to increase from stationary pedal position until throttle position/turbo boost balance.  Speed jumps up and down rapidly.

Another unusual item is the EGR control system appears to be fluctuating in this low speed/low throttle position range.  The impact of this was confirmed by disconnecting the DPFE sensor that is upstream of the EGR valve.  When disconnected the shutter/bucking issue completely goes away.

 

DPFE Sensor

One other observation that leads me to believe the issue is a combination of the two items above; if you are experiencing the shutter/bucking and place the vehicle in cruise control the shutter/bucking stops.  I think placing into cruise would remove the noisy accelerator pedal signal from commanding the throttle body position and other system functions.  The smoother cruise control signal appears to keep the EGR system from fluttering.

My thoughts as a backyard mechanic and engineer:

I think the EGR issue is the primary cause with the accelerator pedal position sensor secondary.  The EGR system issue could either be soot/contamination buildup in the EGR system that is impacting the DPFE reading or it is the DPFE sensor.

----------------------------------

Ford initially told me they could not repeat the bucking/shutter and I insisted on talking to their technician.  The called me back to ask if they could keep it another day to have a "transmission expert" who was coming to their dealership look at it.  They never noted if the "transmission expert" reviewed my Edge but said the DPFE was replaced and the vehicle is now "operating as designed at this time."

Overall I believe the issue is in the EGR system.  Some of you have experienced this issue very early which could be the DPFE or a bad orifice in the EGR plumbing impact the pressure reading.

Good luck!

[DGW]

I have had the issue since the car was new.  The Dealer flashed the software several times but other than that nothing else. I believe it is just a characteristic of the transmission. I also have a 20 escape with the same transmission and it does essentially the same thing but not as intense as the Edge.  In my case the bucking surging only happens in warmer weather and only lasts when I first start out with the Edge for a short time and goes away after the transmission is warmed up. The Dealer is very aware of the issue but has basically said it is "normal" in the sense that there is nothing that they can do about it. 

[rafeeki]

Yes it was resolved for me with a software update.

You should also check out the LEMON LAW in your state.  

[pioter]

the egr sensor is terrible crap. inside there is something similar to a silicone jelly with wires embedded in it. There is suction on the sensor from both sides, so nothing should get there. the reading from this sensor also flies like a dick in the pants. at constant revolutions it should have some relatively constant values. unfortunately this is not like that. Despite the sensor being several months old, I sometimes feel the tugging again.

[Howard knauer]

With issues like this and what seems likely to be thousands of similar complaints, why has nobody looked at a class action suit? Ford is obviously aware of issue and reluctant to act. Post like this publicly lets ford know issue is not a quick fix but rather overlooking quality issue which they allowed at some point. 

[Toby99]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:11 AM, EdgeEGRIssue said:

Thank you for the detailed report EdgeEGRIssue.

 

Issue: 

Vehicle has hesitation on soft acceleration and shutters/bucks at low speed cruise conditions (15-35 MPH).  Situation is most prominent after first start of the day but has progressed to the point it can be felt almost anytime.  All modules were evaluated for DTC codes with none present.

Yes, this is exactly the reason I started the post over 5 years ago.  My 2019 Titanium still has the issue.

 

Observations:

Conducted series of live parameter monitoring on vehicle through OBDII and noticed the accelerator pedal signal is “noisy” between 1000 and 2000 RPM.  This can be seen without reader in the tachometer reading by placing foot on brake and selecting Neutral.  Attempt to hold engine speed at 1500 RPM using accelerator pedal and notice tachometer jumps around as well audible indication that engine speed is fluctuating rapidly.  Would only expect speed to increase from stationary pedal position until throttle position/turbo boost balance.  Speed jumps up and down rapidly.

This was also noted several years ago.  I noticed the accelerator issue when having the oil changed.  Tech asked me to place vehicle in park and hold rpm at 2,000 for several seconds.  Couldn't do it.  The slightest touch of the accelerator caused exaggerated fluctuations in rpm.

 

Another unusual item is the EGR control system appears to be fluctuating in this low speed/low throttle position range.  The impact of this was confirmed by disconnecting the DPFE sensor that is upstream of the EGR valve.  When disconnected the shutter/bucking issue completely goes away.

 

DPFE Sensor

One other observation that leads me to believe the issue is a combination of the two items above; if you are experiencing the shutter/bucking and place the vehicle in cruise control the shutter/bucking stops.  It does for my vehicle.  Also was posted as a possibility years ago.  I think placing into cruise would remove the noisy accelerator pedal signal from commanding the throttle body position and other system functions.  The smoother cruise control signal appears to keep the EGR system from fluttering.

My thoughts as a backyard mechanic and engineer:

I think the EGR issue is the primary cause with the accelerator pedal position sensor secondary.  The EGR system issue could either be soot/contamination buildup in the EGR system that is impacting the DPFE reading or it is the DPFE sensor.

----------------------------------

Ford initially told me they could not repeat the bucking/shutter and I insisted on talking to their technician.  The called me back to ask if they could keep it another day to have a "transmission expert" who was coming to their dealership look at it.  They never noted if the "transmission expert" reviewed my Edge but said the DPFE was replaced and the vehicle is now "operating as designed at this time."  I was always told the vehicle was operating "normally".

Overall I believe the issue is in the EGR system.  Some of you have experienced this issue very early which could be the DPFE or a bad orifice in the EGR plumbing impact the pressure reading.

Good luck!

Are the EGR and DPFE sensors easily replaced or does it require the dealership? 

[Haz]

Attached below as PDF documents are the EGR and DPFE sensor removal and installation procedures for 2.0L EcoBoost from the 2019 Edge Workshop Manual, and, location illustrations from the 2019 Edge Wiring resource...

 

Good luck!

 

Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve - Removal and Installation - 2019 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf Differential Pressure Feedback Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Sensor - Removal and Installation - 2019 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf EXHAUST GAS RECIRCULATION (EGR) VALVE - 2.0L EcoBoost Location - 2019 Edge.pdf Differential Pressure Feedback Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Sensor - 2.0L EcoBoost Location - 2019 Edge.pdf

Edited May 25 by Haz

[joepipe]

Can anyone else confirm that the issue is most likely the EGR and DPFE sensor need to be replaced?

 

Im having the same issue with low speed acceleration from a stop for example,  2nd gear and sometimes to 3rd is a stutter  feeling , not smooth.  2019 Edge Titanium ,  just started 2 weeks ago around 45k miles.

Edited May 30 by joepipe

[colinc755]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:11 AM, EdgeEGRIssue said:

Good news, I have confirmed Pioter's findings at my Ford dealership.  My surge/bucking issue was caused by the Differential Pressure Feedback EGR (DPFE) Sensor.  I read through this entire 5 year topic and conducted several of the test noted and provided my dealership the below write-up:

------------------------------------

To help with your troubleshooting, I have done some diagnostics over the past couple weeks and offer the following notes:

Issue: 

Vehicle has hesitation on soft acceleration and shutters/bucks at low speed cruise conditions (15-35 MPH).  Situation is most prominent after first start of the day but has progressed to the point it can be felt almost anytime.  All modules were evaluated for DTC codes with none present.

Observations:

Conducted series of live parameter monitoring on vehicle through OBDII and noticed the accelerator pedal signal is “noisy” between 1000 and 2000 RPM.  This can be seen without reader in the tachometer reading by placing foot on brake and selecting Neutral.  Attempt to hold engine speed at 1500 RPM using accelerator pedal and notice tachometer jumps around as well audible indication that engine speed is fluctuating rapidly.  Would only expect speed to increase from stationary pedal position until throttle position/turbo boost balance.  Speed jumps up and down rapidly.

Another unusual item is the EGR control system appears to be fluctuating in this low speed/low throttle position range.  The impact of this was confirmed by disconnecting the DPFE sensor that is upstream of the EGR valve.  When disconnected the shutter/bucking issue completely goes away.

 

DPFE Sensor

One other observation that leads me to believe the issue is a combination of the two items above; if you are experiencing the shutter/bucking and place the vehicle in cruise control the shutter/bucking stops.  I think placing into cruise would remove the noisy accelerator pedal signal from commanding the throttle body position and other system functions.  The smoother cruise control signal appears to keep the EGR system from fluttering.

My thoughts as a backyard mechanic and engineer:

I think the EGR issue is the primary cause with the accelerator pedal position sensor secondary.  The EGR system issue could either be soot/contamination buildup in the EGR system that is impacting the DPFE reading or it is the DPFE sensor.

----------------------------------

Ford initially told me they could not repeat the bucking/shutter and I insisted on talking to their technician.  The called me back to ask if they could keep it another day to have a "transmission expert" who was coming to their dealership look at it.  They never noted if the "transmission expert" reviewed my Edge but said the DPFE was replaced and the vehicle is now "operating as designed at this time."

Overall I believe the issue is in the EGR system.  Some of you have experienced this issue very early which could be the DPFE or a bad orifice in the EGR plumbing impact the pressure reading.

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the write-up. May I ask what specific data points you observed during your diag? I took a look at a few things and was able to hold a steady 1500 RPM with a little work at the beginning. I have my 2019 8f35 on the latest software according to the TSB's and I am still getting lots of bucking especially in roundabouts. I think it's because the ones where I live have you in that perfect range of bouncing around 15mph. The car just surges back and forth between gears like a kid learning to drive stick. It makes up its mind when I am able to straighten out, but dang its jarring. 

 

For reference mine has 82.000 miles on the odo and has had 3 Transmission fluid changes in its life. Fluid has never contained any shavings or odd material.  

[eric1]

On 5/3/2024 at 11:11 AM, EdgeEGRIssue said:

Good news, I have confirmed Pioter's findings at my Ford dealership.  My surge/bucking issue was caused by the Differential Pressure Feedback EGR (DPFE) Sensor.  I read through this entire 5 year topic and conducted several of the test noted and provided my dealership the below write-up:

------------------------------------

To help with your troubleshooting, I have done some diagnostics over the past couple weeks and offer the following notes:

Issue: 

Vehicle has hesitation on soft acceleration and shutters/bucks at low speed cruise conditions (15-35 MPH).  Situation is most prominent after first start of the day but has progressed to the point it can be felt almost anytime.  All modules were evaluated for DTC codes with none present.

Observations:

Conducted series of live parameter monitoring on vehicle through OBDII and noticed the accelerator pedal signal is “noisy” between 1000 and 2000 RPM.  This can be seen without reader in the tachometer reading by placing foot on brake and selecting Neutral.  Attempt to hold engine speed at 1500 RPM using accelerator pedal and notice tachometer jumps around as well audible indication that engine speed is fluctuating rapidly.  Would only expect speed to increase from stationary pedal position until throttle position/turbo boost balance.  Speed jumps up and down rapidly.

Another unusual item is the EGR control system appears to be fluctuating in this low speed/low throttle position range.  The impact of this was confirmed by disconnecting the DPFE sensor that is upstream of the EGR valve.  When disconnected the shutter/bucking issue completely goes away.

 

DPFE Sensor

One other observation that leads me to believe the issue is a combination of the two items above; if you are experiencing the shutter/bucking and place the vehicle in cruise control the shutter/bucking stops.  I think placing into cruise would remove the noisy accelerator pedal signal from commanding the throttle body position and other system functions.  The smoother cruise control signal appears to keep the EGR system from fluttering.

My thoughts as a backyard mechanic and engineer:

I think the EGR issue is the primary cause with the accelerator pedal position sensor secondary.  The EGR system issue could either be soot/contamination buildup in the EGR system that is impacting the DPFE reading or it is the DPFE sensor.

----------------------------------

Ford initially told me they could not repeat the bucking/shutter and I insisted on talking to their technician.  The called me back to ask if they could keep it another day to have a "transmission expert" who was coming to their dealership look at it.  They never noted if the "transmission expert" reviewed my Edge but said the DPFE was replaced and the vehicle is now "operating as designed at this time."

Overall I believe the issue is in the EGR system.  Some of you have experienced this issue very early which could be the DPFE or a bad orifice in the EGR plumbing impact the pressure reading.

Good luck!

Did you have to pay to have the DPFE Sensor or the EGR system replaced? If so, how much does it cost?

 

Im curious if it’s covered under powertrain warranty

Edited July 1 by eric1

[DGW]

2 hours ago, eric1 said:

Did you have to pay to have the DPFE Sensor or the EGR system replaced? If so, how much does it cost?

 

Im curious if it’s covered under powertrain warranty

I believe EGR is covered under the emissions warranty which for most emission items is 2/24000. Not sure if emission coverage is extended through Ford ESP extended plan.

[eric1]

59 minutes ago, DGW said:

I believe EGR is covered under the emissions warranty which for most emission items is 2/24000. Not sure if emission coverage is extended through Ford ESP extended plan.

Ah if it’s in the emissions warranty then I’m way out of coverage lol. Only coverage I have remaining is my extended powertrain warranty.

 

Im confused though. What’s being fixed? Is it the EGR? Or the DPFE Sensor? Or are those the same thing? I’ve never heard of those parts before so I’m clueless to this

[eric1]

On 5/25/2024 at 2:20 PM, Toby99 said:

Are the EGR and DPFE sensors easily replaced or does it require the dealership? 

Have you tried it yourself? I’m considering trying it myself