Edge Low Speed Surge/Buck - Transmission

[Breez]

On 7/10/2022 at 6:41 AM, Toby99 said:

Breez,  Can you explain the connection between the EGR valve and the bucking/surging issue we are having?    

 

Is this actually an engine problem and not transmission? 

 

Customer support is worthless and I (we) have no direct access to Ford technicial engineering.  Just odd to me that no one who has read or posted here are Ford repair techs or a Ford employee.  Whether Ford acknowledges it or not there is something wrong with our vehicles.  I've lost count on how many TSB's I've had done and resetting the PCM.  It's not fixing the problem.  I'm also frustrated with dealership service departments that state there are no codes or could not duplicate the problem.

Engine

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[IcyFridge]

2 hours ago, Breez said:

Engine

..

It can be both. It's as if the transmission is not sure what gear it needs to be in at some speeds. Since I had friction modifier added to my transmission fluid, it hasn't shuddered much. Only once in a blue moon.

 

The downshift thud from 3rd to 1st is a new thing and will get that looked at soon.

[Breez]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:34 PM, Breez said:

Engine

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I too,  feel your pain, my veh still isn't perfect by any means. Dont know how or why my repairs helped. It is some what better though.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Breez

[Breez]

My vehicle is still running better, not perfect, but lots better.

[IcyFridge]

My Edge started jerking and mis-shifting again but even worse than before. Out of my warranty period so I’d have to pay for some clunk in the suspension and smell of coolant inside. Plus Ford wouldn’t give me a loaner anymore so I’d have to pay for a rental for however many months it’ll take to fix the transmission. Traded the Edge in for a 2023 Crosstrek 6MT within 2 days and couldn’t be happier. 
 

Will be posting my Livernois Tuner and Method/Falken combo for sale soon. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by IcyFridge

[ajhart1000]

I have an update on my situation. I had the TSB 21-2389 done on my Edge and it did not help.  It actually ended up being worse. I had more jerks and vibrations while driving. Took it in again and now the transmission is being rebuilt. I had to rent a car for a week and now in a loaner car. Not sure when I will get my vehicle back. I am hoping that this will solve the shifting issues. I am still under power train warranty. 

My other issue with engine stutter after fueling up was the purge valve. Had the extended warranty for that. 

[bp_2019EdgeTi]

I had a similar problem on my 2019 with about 57,500 miles on it. The transmission felt like it would shudder between 25-35 MPH. It was particularly noticeable when at a slight incline and under light throttle. My dealership replaced the torque converter and control assembly under warranty. 

 

Attached is my service invoice for reference. 

 

 

[Toby99]

Could you keep us updated on whether the described repairs fixed the issue? 

 

My 2019 Edge is still having slow speed buck/surges after 4-1/2 years.  Numerous TSB's and PCM resets have done nothing.  Worst vehicle I have ever owned.  

[bp_2019EdgeTi]

As far as I can tell it took care of the problem. It drives as it should now. I tried resetting the adaptives with Forscan prior to taking it in. When I did that, for the first drive after it seemed better but would always return. After the shop replaced the torque converter and valve body, it drives great now. Thankfully, it was under warranty. It wouldn't have been a cheap job otherwise. 

 

My work car is a 2020 Ford Edge in a more basic trim level, but it has the same engine and transmission. It has about 20k miles and the transmission shifts perfectly. After the repair, I'd say my 2019 shifts the same as my 2020 work car now. 

[Murphada]

I have a 2020 edge titanium that has a bucking sensation between 20-30 mph 87k miles anyone else dealing with this?

[bp_2019EdgeTi]

I had a 2019 that was doing something similar. I only have 57-58K miles. The dealer replaced the torque converter and transmission valve body under warranty which fixed the problem. 

[Murphada]

On 6/8/2023 at 8:41 AM, bp_2019EdgeTi said:

I had a 2019 that was doing something similar. I only have 57-58K miles. The dealer replaced the torque converter and transmission valve body under warranty which fixed the problem. 

Is there a TSB for this?

[Toby99]

There have been many TSB's for this issue.  None have fixed my 2019 Titanium.  30k miles.

 

https://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/26728-2019-edge-low-speed-surgebuck/

[barrowrk]

Well, I'm back again to this thread.  TSB 21-2081 in June of 2021 seemed to have solved the problem, but it's come back again. 2019 Titanium. I see there is another TSB now, and maybe the torque converter is a solution.  Will be back after the next trip to the dealer...

[DGW]

On 7/3/2023 at 8:22 PM, barrowrk said:

Well, I'm back again to this thread.  TSB 21-2081 in June of 2021 seemed to have solved the problem, but it's come back again. 2019 Titanium. I see there is another TSB now, and maybe the torque converter is a solution.  Will be back after the next trip to the dealer...

Is the latest TSB 21-2389 from 11/2021?  Interestingly I was just discussing the issue on a Ford Escape forum because someone was complaining about a similar issue and I have experienced this issue on my 2019 edge and 2020 Escape. In replying to my comment on the forum someone mentioned that Ford got creative with the 2023 ST Line Edge by turning the transmission into a 7 speed transmission by eliminating the second gear through software changes to the transmission. Couldn't find anywhere if the ST Line Transmission is the identical 8F35 transmission but with software changes. If the ST Line 7 speed  transmission does not have the same issue then it makes you wonder if Ford can use software to do the same to the 8F35 that we have or it was updated to a 7 speed transmission for other reasons.  Just thinking out loud. Smarter people than me might know why. Also thinking that assuming eliminating the second gear through software works for this situation it might cause legal issues for Ford since we purchased a vehicle with an eight speed transmission.

 

I am back on this thread because I just had the Edge PCM updated again because the issue returned and wanted to see how others are doing with the issue. Maybe my imagination but I have felt that the outside temperature has had something to do with the intensity of the bucking. The last few days have been humid and in the 90's. Maybe just a coincidence.

Edited July 7, 2023 by DGW

[Haz]

TSB 21-2389 is the most recently released Service Procedure for this issue...

 

Document download link> TSB 21-2389 - 8F35 Transmission - Shudder-Buck-Jerk While Driving Up To 35 MPH (57 Km-H) - Built On Or Before 11-Mar-2021.pdf

 

Good luck!

 

[DGW]

So after about a week of having the PCM updated again I can say the the bucking is still there at low speeds especially driving out of the neighborhood. Primarily this is first drive of the day after the car has sat overnight. As the car warms up the bucking goes away.  I do believe the hot weather brought the bucking back (over 90 degrees during the day and warn nights so the closed garage was still hot in the morning.

 

Does anyone else feel the issue is worse during hot weather or have you been experiencing the bucking/surging regardless of the outside temerature?

[SCT]

Hi all. 
 

I have a 2020 Edge that sort of has this problem. Our community has a speed limit of 15mph, and when trying to maintain that speed, the car jerks forward quite violently. If I go incredibly slow, or speed up enough for it to change gears, it seems to clear the issue.

There are also times when I am stopped with the brake applied (at a light or stop sign) and the car will sort of rock forward and back —almost like I’m tapping the break repeatedly, but I’m not. Sometimes it is barely noticeable, to the point where you might think something is wrong with your head, other times it is quite noticeable. 
 

We have just over 35k miles and our warranty expires at 36k miles, so I’d like to get this addressed while under warranty if possible. 
 

Should I simply take it in and describe the issue as I have here? Does this throw any sort of code at all? Or does it have to be identified another way?

They will charge us a $200 diag fee if they “find nothing wrong”.

 

Thanks! 

[DGW]

As HAZ said above 21-2389 is the latest TSB regarding the low speed bucking/surging. In my case it is really noticeable when the engine is cold like sitting overnight or sitting for a few hours. The TSB discusses a PCM update that should definitely be covered under the 36K warranty.  I would bring the Edge in before the 36K warranty expires to at least talk to the service advisor about the issue.  

 

In my case I am out of the 36K warranty period but just had the update done about two weeks ago and it was covered under the 50K powertrain warranty. In my case I did not have the car sitting overnight and because the engine/transmission was warm the dealer did not bother to test drive first but verified that there was a PCM update and performed the update. Didn't really stop the problem but as the temperatures have cooled a bit the bucking/surging has been at a minimum.

 

          

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

seems like the real longterm fix may be the torque converter (+/- the valve body). not an insignificant repair out of warranty. almost worth getting an extended ford warranty first then have the dealer deal with the problem and show them this fix.

[DGW]

I agree, the torque converter/valve body fix may be the answer.   I am still under the 50K power train warranty and I do have the Ford ESP for 8 years/100K so coverage shouldn't be a problem as long as the dealer is willing to fix the issue replacing the torque converter. The first issue is getting the dealer to actually verify the issue. Since in my case the bucking/surging goes away after the car has warmed up I would have to leave the car overnight at the dealer so the issue can be verified before it is serviced and in my case it seems to be worst during high outside temps (high 80's and above) so I would have to watch the weather.  My bucking/surging came back after not having an issue for a couple of years during the heat wave of the last couple of weeks here in NJ. Because there was a software update available the dealer did the update without actually verifying the issue because the car was warm. They noted that in the invoice as the reason they could not verify the issue which makes me believe that Ford is aware that the issue is primarily an issue of cold starts.  The second issue is getting Ford to approve the repair. At this point I do not believe there is a TSB communication regarding the torque converter and while bp_2019EdgeTi thinks replacing the torque converter may have fixed the issue. I am hoping he is right. We don't know if this was something his dealer decided to do on their own or Ford Engineering was involved and knows something that has not been published.  I know that there are times when the dealer doesn't know what to do to fix an issue and they contact Ford Engineering for assistance. The last TSP on the issue was the 21-2389 in November 2021 and that only talked about a software update. Another question for Ford is what happened after the built before date of March 21 mentioned in the TSB? Did Ford update the software and call it a day on the issue or was something more extensive done like some type of redesign? I am guessing issues persisted after the software update based on responses on this thread and my own experience and Ford doesn't want to do an expensive repair except in the worst cases. 

 

I apologize for the long winded comments.  Just trying to get everything in the post that I was thinking including not being easy to get Ford to pay for an extensive repair.  I will make a copy of the invoice for the torque converter repair and show it to the Dealer to see what they say.

[whodge256]

Alright, I have a weird sequence of events with my transmission issues.  About 3 weeks ago my Sync screen started doing the black screen.  After a couple of resets, the Sync screen went completely black, the radio would play but I couldn't turn it off, etc.  I noticed the transmission shutters also went away.  I did not have time to get it by the dealership to have it looked at due to my work schedule.  However, after sitting without being driven all weekend, Monday I got in and my Sync screen was back working again.  Guess what else started again? LOL.  Yep, As soon as the Sync screen started working the transmission shutters returned. What the heck guys and gals?

[pioter]

Disconnect the EGR and drive one day. I'm not saying the EGR  is broken. My car stops jerking. I plan to disable the EGR  programmatically. EDGE 2019 ...

[steve ward]

Any update on this    ?????

[chipdog4]

On 6/22/2022 at 12:52 PM, chipdog4 said:

I was feeling a slight surge/buck over the winter and then in February, it was full on, surging in every gear, any temp, all the time.  Made me really hate the Edge.

Got it into the dealer in April for the TSB and they weren't satisfied with it after the TSB reset.  I believe the service writer said they then replaced the valve body. 

Surging is completely gone, drives like it should now.  

 

It's been about 18 months and 17,000 miles and it's still going great. 

I never got any official receipt of what work they performed. 

I do have to wonder if with this new low viscosity transmission fluid, if the additives don't go bad after a certain time period and that could be contributing to the shudder too, like the 4R70W in the mid 90s.  I do plan to change the fluid every 25 to 30,000 miles from now on.