Poor trans shifting theory investigation

[todd92]

6 months on 2019 Titanium, not one transmission issue.

[Jombi]

 

6 hours ago, todd92 said:

6 months on 2019 Titanium, not one transmission issue.

I believe the Titanium with the 2.0 ecoboost uses the 8F35 tranny and not the 8F57, which is the one with the issues.

(I have no idea why that image is in my post, I had it for another post and it inserted itself and I can't remove it).

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by akirby
removed image

[akirby]

You have to click on the trash can in the lower right of the thumbnail below the post in the editor.

[boosted_st]

14 hours ago, TomCinMI said:

 

Please do so, whatever they say/do, thanks.

 

I'll be sure to post whatever ends up happening.

[boosted_st]

I requested an update from the dealership and as I thought... it's BS and they aren't going to fix anything... I'm so over this crap and 100% regret buying this dang vehicle.

 

"The tech got back with me and Charlie, he stated he is able to monitor 3rd gear is engaging, the reason it's in such high RPM compared to 4th, is 4th is considered an overdrive gear. At this point, there is no problem."

 

My Response:

 

"If other owners don't see the same behavior that can't be correct, especially when 3rd is never actually used. And 2nd and 3rd having identical rpms doesn't make sense either. No difference between 2nd and 3rd IS an issue."

 

This will be the last Ford I ever own and will tell anyone and everyone to steer clear of Ford as well. This is beyond ridiculous now.

 

[onyxbfly]

I know that I am stating the obvious when I say this, but I'd strongly suggest going to a different dealership!  Hopefully you have one that is relatively painless to get too.  There are 3 high volume dealerships in my immediate area. Unfortunately I have to leave the state to go to my preferred dealer

[Jombi]

2 hours ago, boosted_st said:

I requested an update from the dealership and as I thought... it's BS and they aren't going to fix anything... I'm so over this crap and 100% regret buying this dang vehicle.

 

"The tech got back with me and Charlie, he stated he is able to monitor 3rd gear is engaging, the reason it's in such high RPM compared to 4th, is 4th is considered an overdrive gear. At this point, there is no problem."

 

My Response:

 

"If other owners don't see the same behavior that can't be correct, especially when 3rd is never actually used. And 2nd and 3rd having identical rpms doesn't make sense either. No difference between 2nd and 3rd IS an issue."

 

This will be the last Ford I ever own and will tell anyone and everyone to steer clear of Ford as well. This is beyond ridiculous now.

 

I would also try as someone else mentioned earlier to contact a Ford corporate regional rep.   The dealerships do have different priorities than the corporation; the dealer has made their sale, but the corporate rep will care more about reputation and the social media noise you can make. 

 

So it's likely they will at least listen, and when confronted with the obvious truth they should help make this right.  I always thought that the dealer loses nothing on warranty work so I'm not sure what their motivation would be to refuse it.  Maybe they just make less money on it because they're paid some flat fee through corporate, I don't know how that works. 

 

But it just seems odd because it's not coming out of the Dealer's pocket to fix a warranty item, so I don't know why there's pushback, maybe someone else has more insight into this.

[vmaxbaby]

My point is for 50K they could have done allot better.  I know the interior is dated but I am okay with that (the refresh version hopefully is nicer) but I have a GT500 running 10's so no I didn't buy this for the drag strip but when a 2019 Honda Passport takes me from the light and I have to be at 60+mph to over take it well that sucks.  Adding insult we get to the next light and I have my window down and he says "I though those were suppose to be fast"    He is 280hp maybe and no where near the torque and here I am in what Ford Performance has blessed to be a performance SUV but because how this thing is tuned (factory) and the trans it is a pig IMO from a dead stop.  I don't expect to be able to out run high end suv's but damn a honda passport puts it on me.  Limited boost in 1st and 2nd because they are afraid the trans or drive line won't handle it...my suggestion is make it handle it I am willing to  pay more for performance my budget was 55K for something new and I didn't want Dodge so it left me with this.  The explorer ST would have been a close 2nd but I don't need 7 passenger vehicle but I do like the 10 speed can take abuse I see guys at the drag strip with 10 speed GT mustangs beating the crap of there car and no issues so far but I know ours can't have that 10 speed.  Do I hate the car NO.. it rides good,  handles very well for being a tank, great sound system, the AC will freeze you in the summer within a few minutes,  getting 25.5 avg mpg highway which isn't bad,  now it does have more safety crap than I need,  I don't need lane assist, I don't need adaptive cruise, or for the car to brake if it doesn't think I am going to maybe when I am older would appreciate all that but that is the way that all cars are just happy I won't have to fix it any of that while I own it

 

[Jombi]

I didn’t know the Passport was that quick, but just looked it up and they’re rated at 5.8 to 60,  .1 better than the ST.   I’m running the 91 octane Livernois tune and my dragy consistently shows ~5.2 0-60, but due to turbo lag, he’d have me off the line but I’d catch him at about 40 mph which is where I really feel the Gs in the back of my seat.
I’ll keep my eyes out for the next one!

[boosted_st]

2 hours ago, Jombi said:

I would also try as someone else mentioned earlier to contact a Ford corporate regional rep.   The dealerships do have different priorities than the corporation; the dealer has made their sale, but the corporate rep will care more about reputation and the social media noise you can make. 

 

So it's likely they will at least listen, and when confronted with the obvious truth they should help make this right.  I always thought that the dealer loses nothing on warranty work so I'm not sure what their motivation would be to refuse it.  Maybe they just make less money on it because they're paid some flat fee through corporate, I don't know how that works. 

 

But it just seems odd because it's not coming out of the Dealer's pocket to fix a warranty item, so I don't know why there's pushback, maybe someone else has more insight into this.

 

I've contacted Ford Customer Care again today (2nd time now) and should have the regional manager calling me tomorrow. From what the advisor told me Ford doesn't pay the dealer for any fixes they do which they can't find a problem in the parts that are returned (not sure if this really holds water).

 

Would anyone be able to do a video like I did using the paddle shifters to run 1st - 5th gears that I could show them how it SHOULD work? If someone could do this I'd really appreciate it. 

[boosted_st]

2 hours ago, onyxbfly said:

I know that I am stating the obvious when I say this, but I'd strongly suggest going to a different dealership!  Hopefully you have one that is relatively painless to get too.  There are 3 high volume dealerships in my immediate area. Unfortunately I have to leave the state to go to my preferred dealer

 

This has crossed my mind a few times as there are multiple dealerships around here, but the one I bought the car from and have been going to has the highest satisfaction rating.

[handfiler]

 

4 hours ago, vmaxbaby said:

My point is for 50K they could have done allot better.  I know the interior is dated but I am okay with that (the refresh version hopefully is nicer) but I have a GT500 running 10's so no I didn't buy this for the drag strip but when a 2019 Honda Passport takes me from the light and I have to be at 60+mph to over take it well that sucks.  Adding insult we get to the next light and I have my window down and he says "I though those were suppose to be fast"    He is 280hp maybe and no where near the torque and here I am in what Ford Performance has blessed to be a performance SUV but because how this thing is tuned (factory) and the trans it is a pig IMO from a dead stop.  I don't expect to be able to out run high end suv's but damn a honda passport puts it on me.  Limited boost in 1st and 2nd because they are afraid the trans or drive line won't handle it...my suggestion is make it handle it I am willing to  pay more for performance my budget was 55K for something new and I didn't want Dodge so it left me with this.  The explorer ST would have been a close 2nd but I don't need 7 passenger vehicle but I do like the 10 speed can take abuse I see guys at the drag strip with 10 speed GT mustangs beating the crap of there car and no issues so far but I know ours can't have that 10 speed.  Do I hate the car NO.. it rides good,  handles very well for being a tank, great sound system, the AC will freeze you in the summer within a few minutes,  getting 25.5 avg mpg highway which isn't bad,  now it does have more safety crap than I need,  I don't need lane assist, I don't need adaptive cruise, or for the car to brake if it doesn't think I am going to maybe when I am older would appreciate all that but that is the way that all cars are just happy I won't have to fix it any of that while I own it

 

Honda Passport Elite AWD: Curb weight - 4,237 pounds, First gear - 4.71:1,  3.5 V6 has no turbo lag off idle

Ford Edge ST:---------------------- Curb weight - 4,486 pounds, First gear - 4.48:1, 2.7 V6 has turbo lag off idle

 

The specs don't lie and there should be no surprise that he schooled you off the lights. The Edge is a tank and Honda skimps on sound deadening materials to save weight.

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by handfiler

[Fingernip]

11 hours ago, vmaxbaby said:

My point is for 50K they could have done allot better.  I know the interior is dated but I am okay with that (the refresh version hopefully is nicer) but I have a GT500 running 10's so no I didn't buy this for the drag strip but when a 2019 Honda Passport takes me from the light and I have to be at 60+mph to over take it well that sucks.  Adding insult we get to the next light and I have my window down and he says "I though those were suppose to be fast"    He is 280hp maybe and no where near the torque and here I am in what Ford Performance has blessed to be a performance SUV but because how this thing is tuned (factory) and the trans it is a pig IMO from a dead stop.  I don't expect to be able to out run high end suv's but damn a honda passport puts it on me.  Limited boost in 1st and 2nd because they are afraid the trans or drive line won't handle it...my suggestion is make it handle it I am willing to  pay more for performance my budget was 55K for something new and I didn't want Dodge so it left me with this.  The explorer ST would have been a close 2nd but I don't need 7 passenger vehicle but I do like the 10 speed can take abuse I see guys at the drag strip with 10 speed GT mustangs beating the crap of there car and no issues so far but I know ours can't have that 10 speed.  Do I hate the car NO.. it rides good,  handles very well for being a tank, great sound system, the AC will freeze you in the summer within a few minutes,  getting 25.5 avg mpg highway which isn't bad,  now it does have more safety crap than I need,  I don't need lane assist, I don't need adaptive cruise, or for the car to brake if it doesn't think I am going to maybe when I am older would appreciate all that but that is the way that all cars are just happy I won't have to fix it any of that while I own it

 

Did you remember to turn off traction control? Even to 60 you should have been a bit faster than the passport. After 3rd it should seemed like he dropped anchor though. 

 

[Special_K]

11 hours ago, vmaxbaby said:

My point is for 50K they could have done allot better.  I know the interior is dated but I am okay with that (the refresh version hopefully is nicer) but I have a GT500 running 10's so no I didn't buy this for the drag strip but when a 2019 Honda Passport takes me from the light and I have to be at 60+mph to over take it well that sucks.  Adding insult we get to the next light and I have my window down and he says "I though those were suppose to be fast"    He is 280hp maybe and no where near the torque and here I am in what Ford Performance has blessed to be a performance SUV but because how this thing is tuned (factory) and the trans it is a pig IMO from a dead stop.  I don't expect to be able to out run high end suv's but damn a honda passport puts it on me.  Limited boost in 1st and 2nd because they are afraid the trans or drive line won't handle it...my suggestion is make it handle it I am willing to  pay more for performance my budget was 55K for something new and I didn't want Dodge so it left me with this.  The explorer ST would have been a close 2nd but I don't need 7 passenger vehicle but I do like the 10 speed can take abuse I see guys at the drag strip with 10 speed GT mustangs beating the crap of there car and no issues so far but I know ours can't have that 10 speed.  Do I hate the car NO.. it rides good,  handles very well for being a tank, great sound system, the AC will freeze you in the summer within a few minutes,  getting 25.5 avg mpg highway which isn't bad,  now it does have more safety crap than I need,  I don't need lane assist, I don't need adaptive cruise, or for the car to brake if it doesn't think I am going to maybe when I am older would appreciate all that but that is the way that all cars are just happy I won't have to fix it any of that while I own it

 

 

This is the ST isnt it?

[todd92]

23 hours ago, Jombi said:

 

I believe the Titanium with the 2.0 ecoboost uses the 8F35 tranny and not the 8F57, which is the one with the issues.

(I have no idea why that image is in my post, I had it for another post and it inserted itself and I can't remove it).

 

 

Numerous posters saying they have the same/similar symptoms with 8F35 equipped Edge's.  I was just saying mine has been flawless.

[ONEDGE16]

8 minutes ago, todd92 said:

Numerous posters saying they have the same/similar symptoms with 8F35 equipped Edge's.  I was just saying mine has been flawless.

There is a tsb for the 8F35 as well

[boosted_st]

On 3/26/2019 at 3:31 AM, omar302 said:

 

PCM is the "Powertrain Control Module", basically the computer controlling the Engine & Transmission which has a software, this software is what is updated (and tuned in aftermarket tuners) just like how phones' software is updated. Reading all these issues with the ST's 8-speed, it seems the concern is with the 2-3 shift, also noteworthy is that the 2nd gear is one of the two added gears compared to the previous transmission in the Sport. The second added gear is the 8th, a 2nd overdrive ratio. So the issue could be as simple as software related for how it deals with the extra ratios (compared to the old 6-speed unit) or hardware with the new components they added to convert the 6-speed to a 8-speed.

 

 

I found a calculator online (if it's accurate) that pretty much says either 2nd or 3rd gear really isn't needed according to these ratios. And this is exactly what I am seeing. If this is accurate it's hugely stupid to have 2 gears so close that the programming always skips one! The attached image shows the results for gears 1 - 6. I feel as though this really makes it a 7 speed not 8 if there is a useless gear.

[Jombi]

31 minutes ago, boosted_st said:

 

I found a calculator online (if it's accurate) that pretty much says either 2nd or 3rd gear really isn't needed according to these ratios. And this is exactly what I am seeing. If this is accurate it's hugely stupid to have 2 gears so close that the programming always skips one! The attached image shows the results for gears 1 - 6. I feel as though this really makes it a 7 speed not 8 if there is a useless gear.

Possbiley for towing heavy stuff around town one might want to have 2nd and 3rd that close...I think most of us are in drag-race mindset so that's why it seems unneeded.  It would be nice if Forscan or the tuners (Livernois, etc) could just eliminate a gear via software.

[boosted_st]

20 minutes ago, Jombi said:

Possbiley for towing heavy stuff around town one might want to have 2nd and 3rd that close...I think most of us are in drag-race mindset so that's why it seems unneeded.  It would be nice if Forscan or the tuners (Livernois, etc) could just eliminate a gear via software.

 

I agree, the current programming seems to get confused as to what gear it should really be using because of this and that might be the whole problem that I am seeing. I still can't believe this is how they decided to build this and put it into production! This has caused hesitation when shifting as I am crossing lanes of traffic leaving where I live and it's really unsettling. 

[TomCinMI]

On 12/9/2019 at 4:11 PM, jamie1073 said:

 

I have had my ST for almost a year and 12,000 miles...  It did go in to get some straps replaced on the fuel tank which was a TSB as well... 

 

Briefly off-topic, since the above was mentioned:  Do you mean TSB 18-2378, dated 12-14-2018--which I've located via web search on NHTSA--about a "slosh noise" from the tank, mostly when it's over 3/4 full, & while driving at low speeds?  The affected Edge model years are 2015-2019-- those with AWD--for the usual "some" vehicles.

Edited January 8, 2020 by TomCinMI

[jamie1073]

1 hour ago, TomCinMI said:

 

Briefly off-topic, since the above was mentioned:  Do you mean TSB 18-2378, dated 12-14-2018--which I've located via web search on NHTSA--about a "slosh noise" from the tank, mostly when it's over 3/4 full, & while driving at low speeds?  The affected Edge model years are 2015-2019-- those with AWD--for the usual "some" vehicles.

 

I actually never got paperwork for that one TSB for some reason so I do not know what the number was, but yes I complained about excessive sloshing almost clunk like noises when the tank was full and turning a corner at city street speeds.  I now no longer have that sound when the tank is full or anytime. 

[TomCinMI]

Gracias, @jamie1073!

[boosted_st]

before I call the dealer to find out what is going on with my vehicle, can someone confirm that they see a different behavior when using the paddle shifters? From the calculations I did yesterday, it seems Ford f'd up on the gearing of the transmission and maybe what I am seeing is "normal" (if it is, the person responsible for this transmissions should be fired). 

[akirby]

40 minutes ago, boosted_st said:

(if it is, the person responsible for this transmissions should be fired). 

 

Talk to GM - they did the initial design.  In fact the GM version has 9 speeds - Ford already removed one gear.

[Fingernip]

5 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Talk to GM - they did the initial design.  In fact the GM version has 9 speeds - Ford already removed one gear.

I think the 8F35 comes from the GM 9 speed design which doesn't share ratios with any of the existing transmissions. The 8F57 is a 6F55 but modified with 2 more gears it retains all the same ratios as the GM 6T70.