So Is All The Youtube Videos True

[Fingernip]

5 minutes ago, Nick Halstead said:

yes, I was simply referring to the capabilities of the 2.0 in general as it's same motor, diff tune and the DCT capabilities as it's way down on power compared to Focus RS and literally destroys it.

The RS did awful in that test. Reviewers had better luck with the 1/4 and 0-60 than these guys did. maybe lower octane was used? Or maybe it was heat soaked?

[vmaxbaby]

Hard to believe the RS did that bad against those cars guessing drive mode issue,  like shifting at 4 grand,  86 octane, something... because I buddy of mine in the Shelby club he has one as his daily driver and even before he did the norm (down pipe, exhaust, intake, tune) that car was fast and when he would launch at 3500 it would take off like rocket.   

 

[Nick Halstead]

9 hours ago, Fingernip said:

The RS did awful in that test. Reviewers had better luck with the 1/4 and 0-60 than these guys did. maybe lower octane was used? Or maybe it was heat soaked?

I mean, it only ran .3 seconds slower than motor trend pulled and .4 slower than car and driver. I'd say that's pretty good pulling the 13.8 by random owner. That's a 13.8 without 1ft rollout

 

32 minutes ago, vmaxbaby said:

Hard to believe the RS did that bad against those cars guessing drive mode issue,  like shifting at 4 grand,  86 octane, something... because I buddy of mine in the Shelby club he has one as his daily driver and even before he did the norm (down pipe, exhaust, intake, tune) that car was fast and when he would launch at 3500 it would take off like rocket.   

 

it did take off like a rocket in the video, it was first off the line...

[Fingernip]

30 minutes ago, Nick Halstead said:

I mean, it only ran .3 seconds slower than motor trend pulled and .4 slower than car and driver. I'd say that's pretty good pulling the 13.8 by random owner. That's a 13.8 without 1ft rollout

 

it did take off like a rocket in the video, it was first off the line...

It lost by tenths of a second too. Might have been a drivers race. 

[Nick Halstead]

9 minutes ago, Fingernip said:

It lost by tenths of a second too. Might have been a drivers race. 

indeed, but we are visual as people, so seeing the distance seems far, but looking at tenths of seconds is close.

[TomCinMI]

Thanks much for this thread, vmaxbaby, since otherwise I would've had to start it. While there are many largely favorable YouTube reviews of the Edge ST, there are too many unfair reviews (generally so-called reviews), and here's the big rub: The out-of-kilter review stuff has to be quickly, effectively countered, or those of us who've made an informed, wise acquisition of this truly excellent-for-the buck vehicle are going to get hammered on value-retention; I'll suggest two key ways that that can be done, toward the end, below. Meanwhile, wanna know one source which recently updated their comprehensive, mostly glowing review of the 2019 Edge? That relative paragon of non-agenda-based reviews, Consumer Reports:

 

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/ford/edge/2019/overview/

 

Right, again CR directly evaluated the SEL trim, not the ST, but that does mean all features which are in common with the ST are covered, and CR makes several noteworthy references to the ST; so, as a starting point, this review is plenty fine, and here's one of the key takeaways: When I bought my ST in early November, evidently neither IIHS nor NHTSA had completed their testing of the 2019 model, since my window sticker doesn't provide those safety scores; CR indicates that the '19 Edge aces them, with the minimal exception of 4 stars on the rating for rollovers... Yes, I'm going to get to the raps (by which I'm honestly not impressed) against the transmission, the paddle shifters, and the augmented exhaust note, but I'm here, too, to stand up for all of the substantial value in this vehicle which often is mentioned only superficially--if at all--by sub-par reviewers. I am not overstating by saying that the Edge ST is excellent for its price point. I could not care less about the wah-wahing because of some, *gasp*, hard plastic in the center stack. Spare the mahogany and it's cost with it! That little bit of plastic contributes to fuel efficiency, keeps the price point down, and is cheap as well if there's a need to replace it. Also, if one uses a magnifying glass, he or she might be able to find some bit of fault with my fit and finish--or not. Co-Pilot360 rocks, even more so when upgraded to Co-Pilot360 Assist+!

 

Back to the focus of this thread. Surprise! The Edge ST isn't a full-on race car! OMG, stop the presses! "But the engineers dare to call it an ST!" Yeah, they "dare" call it an Edge ST--not a Fiesta ST, not a Focus ST, nor a GT, nor any RS, nor a 'Stang, nor a Raptor... It's an Edge ST! It's a nicely sized, very practical, functional utility vehicle--with a lot of juice, certainly a lot of juice as SUV's go! And the targeted buyers/lessees also want a respectable degree of fuel efficiency. The balancing act is not easily finessed, not at all! But let's take a brief, fun intermission by watching Edge ST-review videos, two "Con" and three "Pro", with the final three each featuring a different Ford Performance/Edge ST project engineer. Then please come back here; please read what little I add beneath the YouTube links; and please comment.

 

Con

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qup6s2caqRQ

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXesdp-EtEM

 

 

Pro

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEBbaO-3E_Y&t=372s

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJF3MIJYMDI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7JMhC9b9uM&t=1612s

 

As another, humble YouTube reviewer of the Edge ST said, he respected that the engineers probably know more than he knows. Interesting insight. To conclude this comment: (1) All paddle shifters are jokes--and going full manual in this vehicle would not have been a smart move, for the demographic targeted or given today's already intensely distracted drivers. (2) The "piped-in" engine note is in the ear of the beholder, and I don't dislike it, not just because I only use sport mode for engine braking (I like performance, but primarily for overtaking when necessary & for resale appeal). (3) The 8-speed is maligned way too much, especially if it has been allowed to warm up a little during this long, dark winter. How bad can the transmission be when it achieves 60 in 6 seconds and this 2-1/4-ton SUV tops out at 130? How the hell much is needed? The owner's manual tells us that the new trans goes through a period of adaptive learning before finding its groove. How many of these out-of-the-gate reviewers have driven broken-in transmissions? Like none? The engineers (see videos above), speak of shift-schedules specifically tuned to hold revs, etc., varying with driver inputs, inc. steering. "I'm not an engineer, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night"? Maybe a software update to optimize, or not. All of us who know we've got a great overall vehicle in the Edge ST should e-mail Ford, with links to such threads as this, plus get on these threads to speak truth, and otherwise do all we can to set the record straight before we're saddled with heavy depreciation due to bogus & inept reviews.

Edited March 23, 2019 by TomCinMI

[Nick Halstead]

6 hours ago, TomCinMI said:

Thanks much for this thread, vmaxbaby, since otherwise I would've had to start it. While there are many largely favorable YouTube reviews of the Edge ST, there are too many unfair reviews (generally so-called reviews), and here's the big rub: The out-of-kilter review stuff has to be quickly, effectively countered, or those of us who've made an informed, wise acquisition of this truly excellent-for-the buck vehicle are going to get hammered on value-retention; I'll suggest two key ways that that can be done, toward the end, below. Meanwhile, wanna know one source which recently updated their comprehensive, mostly glowing review of the 2019 Edge? That relative paragon of non-agenda-based reviews, Consumer Reports:

I've never owned a Ford that held any value. My 48k 15 Edge Sport was like a whopping 28k a year and a half later, it's a good thing I don't buy cars based on resale value.
Fords marketing of the ST is the true blame for the negative feedback to be honest. You can't market a SUV with supercars in pictures and videos and then have it just be a rebadged trim level.

[jamie1073]

I did not expect the Edge ST to carve up a road like my Focus ST or like a Fiesta ST can.  It is quicker feeling that my Focus with a stock tune, that woke up when tuned even mildly.  It is great vehicle for what it is and I did happen to keep up and even creep closer, as we kept going, with a WRX that was going all out from a turn.  I turned behind him on a back road and he floored it.  So it is not a slouch by any means, but with the power it has I did expect it to be quicker and obviously so do the reviewers.  The handling is pretty impressive for the weight and size of the vehicle though.  It is the transmission I can't stand but I did come from being able to control my own gear choices and this could be fixed with some programming changes that hopefully Ford makes.  The problem with the Ford fixing it though is you will have to trick them into applying the fix because they most likely will not just update the software without you complaining about the transmission and mentioning the issues they list in the fix.  Of course that depends on your relationship with the Service Department once a corrective fix is issued.  All in all I love it even with the crap mileage I get and the random delays, hiccups, not downshifting enough stuff I found. 

[akirby]

Ahem - not ALL paddle shifters are jokes.   DCTs are superb transmissions and can’t be beat for performance.   I’ve driven Porsches, Ferraris and an Audi on a track and it’s amazing, even in automatic mode.  You lose the feel of manually shifting and working the clutch (and I agree that’s fun) but you can’t come close to manually shifting as well or as fast as a DCT.   That’s why they’re using it on the GT and the upcoming Mustang GT500.

 

Paddle shifters on a traditional automatic simply give you more control over gear selection but the transmission itself isn’t any different and you don’t get any more performance, just a more convenient way to select gears.  Mainly useful for holding a lower gear when cornering or going down a mountain or forcing an early downshift before passing.   In that respect they work fine, but they will never be a substitute for a manual.

[Fingernip]

4 hours ago, Nick Halstead said:

I've never owned a Ford that held any value. My 48k 15 Edge Sport was like a whopping 28k a year and a half later, it's a good thing I don't buy cars based on resale value.
Fords marketing of the ST is the true blame for the negative feedback to be honest. You can't market a SUV with supercars in pictures and videos and then have it just be a rebadged trim level.

I can’t complain about depreciation with any of my Fords. Compared to any other brand they are extremely comparable. My 8 year old edge sport I got for 37k had a 16k value. If it had been a BMW I would have gotten half that unless it was a rare model. 

[TomCinMI]

4 hours ago, Nick Halstead said:

I've never owned a Ford that held any value. My 48k 15 Edge Sport was like a whopping 28k a year and a half later, it's a good thing I don't buy cars based on resale value.
Fords marketing of the ST is the true blame for the negative feedback to be honest. You can't market a SUV with supercars in pictures and videos and then have it just be a rebadged trim level.

 

Resale value is far from everything for me, but I sure can justify seriously making it part of the mix. Anymore, I make my best judgement about what is likely to appeal in Michigan in 3-4 years, & a 6-cylinder, AWD midsize SUV w/ some plausible tow capability ain't a bad bet; regardless, we may as well touch a match to significant cash if we don't push back against false spin about this vehicle--and prod Ford to do the same, via any tweaks and/or public relations.

 

Of course there are reviewers without ill intent and with scruples, yet I'm sure you realize that there are agendas/grudges out there and sure no shortage of incompetence/laziness/lack of due diligence in "reporting". I am not in agreement that the ST is "just ... a rebadged trim level"; there are several ST-specific elements which have been incorporated into the vehicle, and I don't feel that the marketing represents over-the-top promotion (not beyond what is normally expected), let alone false advertising. The Edge ST is very attractive, for many good reasons, plus the targeted demographic and price point "are things"--particular and understandable things. I won't let many of these reviewers off the hook easily, and stand by all of my pretty detailed post, above.

[TomCinMI]

2 hours ago, jamie1073 said:

All in all I love it even with the crap mileage I get and the random delays, hiccups, not downshifting enough stuff I found. 

 

My take on the transmission hasn't been nearly that bad, especially considering the engineering justifications provided (although I don't pretend to be an engineer, either an ingenuous one or a disingenuous one) and the fact that I've been breaking in the transmission throughout the polar vortex. My main reason for quoting you is that, at least per the trip odometer's calc's, my combined city-hwy for the darn first 1,000 mi--during said polar vortex--was already dead-on the EPA of 21 ... and I happen to drive just about 50%-50% city-hwy. Not a lead foot, though. I have no interest in wracking up the vehicle, my driving record, myself or anyone else.

[TomCinMI]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Ahem - not ALL paddle shifters are jokes.   DCTs are superb transmissions and can’t be beat for performance.   I’ve driven Porsches, Ferraris and an Audi on a track and it’s amazing, even in automatic mode.  You lose the feel of manually shifting and working the clutch (and I agree that’s fun) but you can’t come close to manually shifting as well or as fast as a DCT.   That’s why they’re using it on the GT and the upcoming Mustang GT500.

 

Paddle shifters on a traditional automatic simply give you more control over gear selection but the transmission itself isn’t any different and you don’t get any more performance, just a more convenient way to select gears.  Mainly useful for holding a lower gear when cornering or going down a mountain or forcing an early downshift before passing.   In that respect they work fine, but they will never be a substitute for a manual.

 

I will effectively repeat that I'm neither an engineer nor do I play one, on TV or off. I'll give you the benefit of any doubt, inc. on your caveats. From what I've read/viewed, suffice to say that there are significant downsides to DCT's--at least this side of a full-on racing application; might one of the downsides impact price point quite a bit? Perhaps I would better have adjusted my wording to: "All paddle shifters within certain targeted price points and most applications are jokes." Heck, you couldn't be more correct that you immediately have lost true manual shifting and working a clutch (neither of which I personally ever even needed to get over), plus a paddle system tends to override a driver's attempts at shifting if the attempts would be harmful to the trans (or are otherwise inadvisable?). Honestly I have a hard time seeing the point of paddles--maybe this side of racing on a closed track; many of us are more than happy letting an auto trans take that part of the equation off our plates. Regarding "Mainly useful for holding a lower gear when cornering or going down a mountain or forcing an early downshift before passing", sincerely I say, simply drop her from "D" to "S" and let the very intentionally programmed, adjusted shift schedules take care of about 99% of that stuff for ya. Life is short, and there are plenty of other places, good and bad, for our attention--especially given the average "attention" level of other drivers.

Edited March 23, 2019 by TomCinMI

[TomCinMI]

1 hour ago, Fingernip said:

I can’t complain about depreciation with any of my Fords. Compared to any other brand they are extremely comparable. My 8 year old edge sport I got for 37k had a 16k value. If it had been a BMW I would have gotten half that unless it was a rare model. 

 

Correct, LOL, although you may well have gotten less than half that for pretty much any import here in Flint, MI... Trust me, in that sense, I sure as hell am conscious of value retention.

[erikrichard]

All new vehicles depreciate horribly, the more luxury the model the greater depreciation loss you will face regardless of brand. I'm way too cheap to ever buy a new vehicle. The advantage of warranty doesn't effect me because I do all  my own maintantence and repairs. The advantage of financing doesn't effect me because I always pay with cash. The advantage of having the latest and greatest doesn't effect me because I could care less what others think and am easily impressed by 10 year old tech. Maybe in 10 years I'll buy a 2019 Edge, and will be just as impressed then as I would be owning it today.

Edited March 23, 2019 by erikrichard

[akirby]

2 hours ago, TomCinMI said:

 

I will effectively repeat that I'm neither an engineer nor do I play one, on TV or off. I'll give you the benefit of any doubt, inc. on your caveats. From what I've read/viewed, suffice to say that there are significant downsides to DCT's--at least this side of a full-on racing application; might one of the downsides impact price point quite a bit? Perhaps I would better have adjusted my wording to: "All paddle shifters within certain targeted price points and most applications are jokes." Heck, you couldn't be more correct that you immediately have lost true manual shifting and working a clutch (neither of which I personally ever even needed to get over), plus a paddle system tends to override a driver's attempts at shifting if the attempts would be harmful to the trans (or are otherwise inadvisable?). Honestly I have a hard time seeing the point of paddles--maybe this side of racing on a closed track; many of us are more than happy letting an auto trans take that part of the equation off our plates. Regarding "Mainly useful for holding a lower gear when cornering or going down a mountain or forcing an early downshift before passing", sincerely I say, simply drop her from "D" to "S" and let the very intentionally programmed, adjusted shift schedules take care of about 99% of that stuff for ya. Life is short, and there are plenty of other places, good and bad, for our attention--especially given the average "attention" level of other drivers.

 

S won’t work when going down a steep mountain - it still upshifts.  I have sport mode on my F150 but I still use manual mode to force and hold a lower gear when going up a steep hill towards my house.

 

Look at it this way - once you have an electronically controlled transmission it’s so easy to add paddles or buttons to allow manual shifting that it’s a no brainer.   It’s better to have precise control over gear selection than to not have that control.

[jamie1073]

3 hours ago, TomCinMI said:

 

My take on the transmission hasn't been nearly that bad, especially considering the engineering justifications provided (although I don't pretend to be an engineer, either an ingenuous one or a disingenuous one) and the fact that I've been breaking in the transmission throughout the polar vortex. My main reason for quoting you is that, at least per the trip odometer's calc's, my combined city-hwy for the darn first 1,000 mi--during said polar vortex--was already dead-on the EPA of 21 ... and I happen to drive just about 50%-50% city-hwy. Not a lead foot, though. I have no interest in wracking up the vehicle, my driving record, myself or anyone else.

 

Well I did get a whopping 15.1 this last week so that is actually better, 1.3mpg up from the last fill up.  I am not sure how accurate the computer in the car is though since mine says that I have 16.4 for the life of the vehicle.  At says 16.8 since the last reset that I did when I took a 140 miles round trip with the cruise set at 75, it has been 500 miles since then and it calculated 24mpg for that part of the drive.  I got 18.1 for the full tank.  When I say my mileage sucks my calculations make it so I have got 15.0 avg mpg for the last 1300 miles.  Not even close to the city mpg rating of 19, hell I would be happy with 16-17 and my trips to work are only 10 minutes but that is on a 2 lane road doing 55-65.  Needless to say I am not happy with the fuel economy of this thing since my brother gets 18mpg in his 2.7TT F-150 4x4.  I like to drive quickly with a lot of 3/4+ throttle use but that is still damn low. 

[TomCinMI]

2 hours ago, erikrichard said:

All new vehicles depreciate horribly, the more luxury the model the greater depreciation loss you will face regardless of brand. I'm way too cheap to ever buy a new vehicle. The advantage of warranty doesn't effect me because I do all  my own maintantence and repairs. The advantage of financing doesn't effect me because I always pay with cash. The advantage of having the latest and greatest doesn't effect me because I could care less what others think and am easily impressed by 10 year old tech. Maybe in 10 years I'll buy a 2019 Edge, and will be just as impressed then as I would be owning it today.

 

Not all vehicles depreciate horribly, and certainly there are wide ranges of depreciation; just watch the difference in value lost between two hypothetical vehicles, both of essentially the same purchase price and both in Michigan: one of them a hybrid, and one of them a mid-size, 6-cylinder, AWD, American-based manufacturer, substantially union-made SUV with a modicum of towing capability; given the seasons and the predictable amount of snow in the Midwest, the disparity in value retention is close to night-and-day in that example. To basically claim that "depreciation is depreciation is depreciation" is not true; another glaring example would be if this Edge ST model which we're discussing continues to be pummeled with unfair reviews, what's going to happen to its resale will be a good 90-degrees from where it would stand after generally more fitting, deserved reviews.

 

Regarding your other point, the difference in amount and quality of safety tech is currently enormous between vehicles 10 years apart; that's of major importance to many of us as concerns the well-being of our loved ones and other vehicle occupants; if someone can't afford the safety tech, of course that's another matter.

[Nick Halstead]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Ahem - not ALL paddle shifters are jokes.   DCTs are superb transmissions and can’t be beat for performance.   I’ve driven Porsches, Ferraris and an Audi on a track and it’s amazing, even in automatic mode.  You lose the feel of manually shifting and working the clutch (and I agree that’s fun) but you can’t come close to manually shifting as well or as fast as a DCT.   That’s why they’re using it on the GT and the upcoming Mustang GT500.

yes, the 7SPD DCT on my Audi is simple amazing! There is also the option to hold the gear also with no computer interaction.

[Nick Halstead]

4 hours ago, TomCinMI said:

I am not in agreement that the ST is "just ... a rebadged trim level"; there are several ST-specific elements which have been incorporated into the vehicle, and I don't feel that the marketing represents over-the-top promotion (not beyond what is normally expected), let alone false advertising. The Edge ST is very attractive, for many good reasons, plus the targeted demographic and price point "are things"--particular and understandable things. I won't let many of these reviewers off the hook easily, and stand by all of my pretty detailed post, above.

95% of all options on the ST are available on the Titanium, the Sport was the same way. ST was supposed to be the evolution of the Edge platform, instead it just cloned it's past to target buyers into getting the same vehicle with a lil' sprinkle of new tech that hasn't even proved to be better or faster yet.

100% false marketing here, the Mustang GT can't even match most the cars in this video, so I would, as a consumer expect the Edge ST to be blowing the doors off a GT on a road track or 1/4 mile after watching this. 
 

 

[handfiler]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

Ahem - not ALL paddle shifters are jokes.   DCTs are superb transmissions and can’t be beat for performance.  

 

The German DCT's are superb transmissions. Ford Focus 6 spd DCT circa 2013 not so much. I'm still getting class action letters regarding that POS.

[akirby]

9 minutes ago, handfiler said:

 

The German DCT's are superb transmissions. Ford Focus 6 spd DCT circa 2013 not so much. I'm still getting class action letters regarding that POS.

 

Yes, big difference in price and performance there.  We traded in daughter’s 2012 Focus on our MKX and gave her the Escape just to get rid of it.  I’m planning to get a Boxster in a couple of years and it will probably be a PDK.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Nick Halstead said:

95% of all options on the ST are available on the Titanium, the Sport was the same way. ST was supposed to be the evolution of the Edge platform, instead it just cloned it's past to target buyers into getting the same vehicle with a lil' sprinkle of new tech that hasn't even proved to be better or faster yet.

100% false marketing here, the Mustang GT can't even match most the cars in this video, so I would, as a consumer expect the Edge ST to be blowing the doors off a GT on a road track or 1/4 mile after watching this. 

 

 

I think you’re overreacting here both to the video and to what the Edge ST “should have been”.   All Ford has ever said is that it’s the first SUV tuned by Ford Performance.  Anything beyond that you made up yourself.

[Perblue]

41 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

I think you’re overreacting here both to the video and to what the Edge ST “should have been”.   All Ford has ever said is that it’s the first SUV tuned by Ford Performance.  Anything beyond that you made up yourself.

 

He's always going to hate the ST. He's made up his mind and nothing we say will change that. Why he bothers with this section is beyond me, other than to repeat ST is terrible and "Audi better other than styling."

[blitz118]

33 minutes ago, Perblue said:

 

He's always going to hate the ST. He's made up his mind and nothing we say will change that. Why he bothers with this section is beyond me, other than to repeat ST is terrible and "Audi better other than styling."

I don't know why he keeps posting here as he hates, the vehicle does not have one and has nothing positive to contribute to the ST forum. He's obsessed with hating on it, and needs to take his complaints to Ford.

Edited March 23, 2019 by blitz118