Car & Driver

[Xtra]

    As I looked over the the December issue of Car and Driver I noticed they had  just one page at the back of the magazine for the 2019 Ford Edge ST called "The Sharper Edge" . On page 54 to page 59 they have an article on the 2019 Audi A7 called "Sex Machine".  I have noticed for years how most all car magazines have little nice to say about American cars and drool and fawn over imports . To compare the numbers of the AudiA7 and the ST Edge they are very close. All the numbers I list here are from the December Car and Driver so no matter if there is a one foot roll out or anything else both cars are tested by the same magazine in the same issue.

   Let's start with power : The Audi is listed with 335 HP and 369 TQ. The Edge with 335HP and 380 TQ. The Edge has 11pounds more TQ than the Audi and they both have the same HP.

   Next is curb weight. The Audi weighs in at 4,451 and the Edge is listed at 4,600 pounds. The Audi is lighter by only 149 pounds. Both cars are AWD.

 

Now that we have established the weight, power and drivetrain of both cars this is where it gets weird . The Edge is listed at 5.7 seconds 0 to 60 and the Audi is listed at 4.7 seconds 0 to 60 . The Edge St 1/4 mile is listed at 14.3 Seconds and the Audi is listed at 13.3 Seconds. Now my question is how can there be this big a discrepancy between these two cars as they both make the same HP and weigh within 149 pounds of each other. A full second quicker in the 1/4 mile with the same HP and weight . How can that be?      I think C&D is  . 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Xtra

[Nick Halstead]

Audi DSG transmission Vs Fords boring transmission. 

Audi’s Quattro Vs Fords AWD system

 

Audi clearly blows Ford away in both those catergories and literally every part in the Audi engine bay has aftermarket support. Just a lil 2.0 S3 can run 11s with just a tune and bolt ons.

[redden18]

2 hours ago, Xtra said:

    As I looked over the the December issue of Car and Driver I noticed they had  just one page at the back of the magazine for the 2019 Ford Edge ST called "The Sharper Edge" . On page 54 to page 59 they have an article on the 2019 Audi A7 called "Sex Machine".  I have noticed for years how most all car magazines have little nice to say about American cars and drool and fawn over imports . To compare the numbers of the AudiA7 and the ST Edge they are very close. All the numbers I list here are from the December Car and Driver so no matter if there is a one foot roll out or anything else both cars are tested by the same magazine in the same issue.

   Let's start with power : The Audi is listed with 335 HP and 369 TQ. The Edge with 335HP and 380 TQ. The Edge has 11pounds more TQ than the Audi and they both have the same HP.

   Next is curb weight. The Audi weighs in at 4,451 and the Edge is listed at 4,600 pounds. The Audi is lighter by only 149 pounds. Both cars are AWD.

 

Now that we have established the weight, power and drivetrain of both cars this is where it gets weird . The Edge is listed at 5.7 seconds 0 to 60 and the Audi is listed at 4.7 seconds 0 to 60 . The Edge St 1/4 mile is listed at 14.3 Seconds and the Audi is listed at 13.3 Seconds. Now my question is how can there be this big a discrepancy between these two cars as they both make the same HP and weigh within 149 pounds of each other. A full second quicker in the 1/4 mile with the same HP and weight . How can that be?      I think C&D is  . 

Listed values mostly mean nothing, test drive under real conditions is needed.

Meanwhile, Audi is a premium segment, while Ford is a mass product. Do that premium one needs to pay for Audi costs that 1 second, that is another question and up to personal preference.

Moreover, Audi A7 uses DSG while Ford Edge ST just standard automatic and Audi's Quattro is hard to beat...

[akirby]

I bet the Audi is also at least $20K more too.

 

There is definitely something wrong with the transmission performancewise that needs to be fixed.

[mrgrouper]

Audi frequently understates a vehicles actual horsepower.

[Nick Halstead]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

I bet the Audi is also at least $20K more too

 

Good thing price was not compared in OP, but it is also a noticable $20k. Where a 30k edge and a 50k edge have zero real noticeable differences in quality/materials.

[Nick Halstead]

My 17 A3 Was almost 15k cheaper than my 15 Edge Sport but feels like it was 20k more as far as fit/finish/materials

[akirby]

The difference between a base SE and base ST is $12K and you do get upgraded materials.   The rest of the price difference is in options. 

 

We get that you hate the ST.   You don't have to exaggerate everything to make your point.

[Nick Halstead]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

The difference between a base SE and base ST is $12K and you do get upgraded materials.   The rest of the price difference is in options. 

 

We get that you hate the ST.   You don't have to exaggerate everything to make your point.

 

This has nothing to do with my opinion of a ST (pretty sure I never said I hated the ST, I said its a mildly upgraded Sport. To which all the ST fanboys want to say otherwise).

 

its simply about the difference 20k will get you in an Audi compared to 20k in a Ford. Fords materials are the same syntethic leather regardless of pricepoint. Fords quality control (or lack thereof) is gonna be the same regardless of price point. You can get into a titanium Edge and then a ST and everything is going to look like the same material and feel the same to the touch. Other than the steering wheel and blacked out interior above the belt line. Nothing stands out. Im just stating that 20k in a ford wont stand out and spending an extra 20k on an Audi or upgrades on an Audi is a huge difference. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Nick Halstead

[akirby]

The price difference between a base Q5 and a loaded SQ5 is at least $21K.   I don't think the SQ5 gets an upgraded interior.  You're paying for more power, more performance and more options over the base model.

 

Edge is exactly the same.

 

The $10K - $20K difference in the price of the Audi is why the Audi has a nicer interior and a better AWD system.

[akirby]

Also, an extra $10K over the Edge gets you a Nautilus with an upgraded interior.

[Nick Halstead]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

I don't think the SQ5 gets an upgraded interior.  You're paying for more power, more performance and more options over the base model.

 

Edge is exactly the same.

 

The $10K - $20K difference in the price of the Audi is why the Audi has a nicer interior and a better AWD system.

 

every S model has a drastically improved interior, my point was, you are getting an overall better vehicle for the 20k difference. You compared base edge and base ST to a base q5 and a maxed sq5, base sq5 is lil over 9grand more than base q5. Though, the cars are not even comparable so we are really just wasting screen space here. Having a Base A3 and a top of the line Edge for it's year, it really shows the difference in manufacturing and attention to detail. 
 

[akirby]

Audis are more expensive and have a nicer interior and in some cases better performance.

 

Edges are cheaper and have cheaper interior materials because Ford puts the nicer interior in the Nautilus instead which is closer to the Audi in price and features.

 

If you don’t think the ST is worth the price then don’t buy one.  

 

End of discussion.

[Nick Halstead]

16 minutes ago, akirby said:

Audis are more expensive and have a nicer interior and in some cases better performance.

 

Edges are cheaper and have cheaper interior materials because Ford puts the nicer interior in the Nautilus instead which is closer to the Audi in price and features.

is a summary of my first reply minus the lincoln cause it was not part of the OP, Ford/Audi was

Edited December 15, 2018 by Nick Halstead

[Xtra]

Still wondering how can two cars that  basically weigh the same and have exactly the same HP be a full second apart. Using a HP weight 1/4 mile calculator.

The Audi at 4451pounds with 335Hp should run a 13.8 @ 97.96 mph and the Edge ST at 4600 pounds with 335HP a 13.95 @ 96.89 mph. These numbers are more accurate. For the Audi to get a 13.3 et it would have to have 375HP .  I believe that if Audi made a solid 375HP they would say so, why would any manufacture under sell their car by 40hp? I think C&D is flush with Audi payola. On a side note I have raced a 2018 Audi A7, it still had paper plates. The Audi took the hit and within 60 ft I was ahead and never saw him again . I won by a huge gap. If Audi A7's run  a 13.3 1/4 mile it would have been closer ..... He still would have lost  .  

 

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Xtra

[Nick Halstead]

10 minutes ago, Xtra said:

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php 

that site is missing a quattro and dual clutch transmission option. Also missing the hybrid system that the A7 comes with to achieve 34mpg on highway

[Xtra]

16 minutes ago, Nick Halstead said:

that site is missing a quattro and dual clutch transmission option. Also missing the hybrid system that the A7 comes with to achieve 34mpg on highway

 

That site assumes you have racing slicks, a race car, launch control, a full race transmission and are setup for drag racing. That is why it gives a 13.95 for the Edge and not the 14.3 it did in the tests. Having all the things you say would never make up a full second, a couple 1/10 at best.  

Edited December 15, 2018 by Xtra

[Nick Halstead]

8 minutes ago, Xtra said:

 

That site assumes you have racing slicks, a race car, launch control, a full race transmission and are setup for drag racing. That is why it gives a 13.95 for the Edge and not the 14.3 it did in the tests. Having a the things you say would never make up a full second, a couple 1/10 at best.  

if it makes you feel a lil better, Motortrend was only able to pull a 13.5 1/4 with the A7 and Audi officially claims a 5.3 second 0-60

[Nick Halstead]

I dunno man, I can tell you, the Ford is being held back by an outdated transmission even though it's new. 

I tried talking the wife into upgrading the Edge to a S7, she veto'd that. I tried trading in her A3 for a S3 so I could enjoy the 11sec 1/4 mile of the S3 with the current aftermarket stuff on her A3 she veto'd that too. Though we both agreed next vehicle will probably be Audi Q8.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Nick Halstead

[akirby]

I agree it’s the transmission but I don’t think it’s outdated I think they just have a problem with the programming that they haven’t figured out yet.  It sounds like they rushed it to production before it was really ready.

[rwf78155]

I drove a friend of mines 2018 Audi Q5......when I sell my Edge Sport the Q5 will be my next vehicle !  No Comparison ! 2018 Edge Sport has rattles and squeaks ... The Audi Q5 is silent and built like a tank

[Nick Halstead]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

I agree it’s the transmission but I don’t think it’s outdated I think they just have a problem with the programming that they haven’t figured out yet.  It sounds like they rushed it to production before it was really ready.

 

I only say outdated cause it’s not a wet/dry dual clutch and still “traditional” automatic. All performance vehicles should atleast have a dual clutch auto if manual is not an option.

[omar302]

If you ask me, it is something with Ford's programming of the 6F55 when mated with the 2.7L (or the other way). The same thing is there with the Fusion Sport & MKX, they all seem to underperform relative to what they should be. The same transmission has been in the SHO & MKS since 2010 and they performed better despite being slightly heavier than the Edge & Fusion. I know that the SHO/MKS had the 3.5, but it's just to show that the tyranny has the ability to deliver.  

[Nick Halstead]

3 hours ago, omar302 said:

If you ask me, it is something with Ford's programming of the 6F55 when mated with the 2.7L (or the other way). The same thing is there with the Fusion Sport & MKX, they all seem to underperform relative to what they should be. The same transmission has been in the SHO & MKS since 2010 and they performed better despite being slightly heavier than the Edge & Fusion. I know that the SHO/MKS had the 3.5, but it's just to show that the tyranny has the ability to deliver.  

 

We are referring to the ST 8spd transmission though. Not the 6F55, 6F55 is boring in every vehicle its in. Handles power but boring

[akirby]

20 hours ago, Nick Halstead said:

 

I only say outdated cause it’s not a wet/dry dual clutch and still “traditional” automatic. All performance vehicles should atleast have a dual clutch auto if manual is not an option.

 

I think you’re expecting too much out of a basic transverse engine platform.   It would be easier to make a high performance crossover off the Explorer/Aviator CD6 longitudinal platform but word is the new Edge will be on the FWD C2 platform instead.   Maybe the Explorer ST will give you the performance you’re looking for.

 

I think Edge Sport/ST is pretty close to the max you’re going to get out of the platform.