Andry Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I'm new to buying gas at Chevron, but now that I bought this Edge, I would like to give it some good gasoline other than my usual Kroger, HEB or Valero. I noticed that the mid grade is as much as the higher grade from the places I'm used to. Can someone please tell me what grade gasoline will be okay to put in my Edge from Chevron? I put in the middle grade from Chevron, the next one up from Regular and it was a little over $4 bucks per gallon this morning. Anyone who can educate me on this would be wonderful. Thanks, Andry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgey1 Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I never use anything other than good old regular octane in my Edge and have never had any spark knock. I would say anything else would be a waste of money imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I'm new to buying gas at Chevron, but now that I bought this Edge, I would like to give it some good gasoline other than my usual Kroger, HEB or Valero. I noticed that the mid grade is as much as the higher grade from the places I'm used to. Can someone please tell me what grade gasoline will be okay to put in my Edge from Chevron? I put in the middle grade from Chevron, the next one up from Regular and it was a little over $4 bucks per gallon this morning. Anyone who can educate me on this would be wonderful. Thanks, Andry Hi Andry. :D If you read your Owners Manual, you will see that the Edge is built to run on 87 Octane gasoline. Using an Octane level any higher than that is wasted money, and can even adversely affect how your Edge runs. The engine management computer (PCM) in the Edge is not programmed to take advantage of higher Octane gasolines. So using 89, 91, 93 Octane gasolines is just throwing your money out the tailpipe. Good luck. :beerchug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andry Posted June 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Hi Andry. :D If you read your Owners Manual, you will see that the Edge is built to run on 87 Octane gasoline. Using an Octane level any higher than that is wasted money, and can even adversely affect how your Edge runs. The engine management computer (PCM) in the Edge is not programmed to take advantage of higher Octane gasolines. So using 89, 91, 93 Octane gasolines is just throwing your money out the tailpipe. Good luck. :beerchug: Wow, I have a lot to learn. Never heard of this Octane stuff. So, are we saying that Regular gas at Chevron is the 87 Octane gas? And what if I stopped at any other gas station where their mid grade is the same price as Chevron's Regular, is that the same as the 87 Octane. Now that I'm saying all of this, I do remember seeing 87 and other numbers on the button to choose the grade level. Never paid much attention to that. Guess it never mattered with the old cars I was driving. :0) Thanks for the help. I lost my owners manual the first week I got the car. I think it's in a bag when I cleaned it out to get the rental when getting my leather seats put in. :-( I need to find it. I have been wondering whether or not I should be keeping the Overdrive on or off on the highway because it sort of felt smoother/lighter when I had it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 (edited) Wow, I have a lot to learn. Never heard of this Octane stuff. So, are we saying that Regular gas at Chevron is the 87 Octane gas? And what if I stopped at any other gas station where their mid grade is the same price as Chevron's Regular, is that the same as the 87 Octane. Now that I'm saying all of this, I do remember seeing 87 and other numbers on the button to choose the grade level. Never paid much attention to that. Guess it never mattered with the old cars I was driving. :0) Thanks for the help. I lost my owners manual the first week I got the car. I think it's in a bag when I cleaned it out to get the rental when getting my leather seats put in. :-( I need to find it. I have been wondering whether or not I should be keeping the Overdrive on or off on the highway because it sort of felt smoother/lighter when I had it off. Hi Andry. :D Yes, you should be using 87 Octane, and "Regular" gas is usually 87 Octane, except in some high altitude areas where it is sometimes 86 Octane. In those high altitude areas, you should then use the mid-grade. Choose your gasoline grade by the "numbers on the button" (87), not the price. Do not use a fuel that is rated less than 87 Octane, and if the gas station you stop at does not have 87 Octane, use the next higher grade (not lower). There are areas with exceptions, but Octane grades normally run Regular 87, Mid-grade 89 or 91, and Premium 91 or 93. Again, the Engine Management Systems for the Edge/MKX are programmed solely for 87 Octane. There is absolutely no benefit to running anything higher, and it can actually be detrimental. You can download a PDF file of your Owners Manual here: LINK: Owners Manuals Click on this link. Then hover your cursor over the "Maintenance" tab. Then click on "Owners Manuals". Fill in the drop down boxes with the proper information, then download your Owners Manual. There is also a link there to order a new one from the company that prints them, or you can order a new one from your Dealer. You really should have one. Concerning the use of Overdrive on the highway. You should leave the transmission in Overdrive on the highway. Running your vehicle at highway speeds for long periods of time with Overdrive turned off will damage your transmission, stress your engine, and lower your fuel mileage. And in all reality, until you read and completely understand your Owners Manual, you should leave it in Overdrive all of the time. Good luck. :beerchug: PS - And according to what you drove previously, it very well might have mattered what Octane you should have been using. Edited June 7, 2008 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinzII Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) Been running 89 since I had it. Usually, I go to Chevron, Shell or Mobil. Edited July 11, 2008 by PrinzII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 87..... by whomever is selling it the cheapest I can find when I need it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Been running 89 since I had it. Usually, I go to Chevron, Shell or Mobil. Why? You're just wasting that extra $0.10/gallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinzII Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Why? You're just wasting that extra $0.10/gallon. I have never run 87 in any vehicle I have owned. No intention on starting, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CopperCarolinaEdge Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 87, 91 and 93 around here. All I've ever ran regularly in vehicles and will continue to run is 87. No noticeable difference the very few times I've filled up with anything other than 87. As Akirby mentioned, why waste the extra $$$ for no gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 I have never run 87 in any vehicle I have owned. No intention on starting, either. There is NO benefit to running 89 or higher in a vehicle designed to use 87. None whatsoever. What do you think will happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUCKRACER Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) I'm new to buying gas at Chevron, but now that I bought this Edge, I would like to give it some good gasoline other than my usual Kroger, HEB or Valero. I noticed that the mid grade is as much as the higher grade from the places I'm used to. Can someone please tell me what grade gasoline will be okay to put in my Edge from Chevron? I put in the middle grade from Chevron, the next one up from Regular and it was a little over $4 bucks per gallon this morning. Anyone who can educate me on this would be wonderful. Thanks, Use regular. But fuels like Texaco, Chevron, Shell and I think Mobil and maybe a few other have cleaners to prevent carbon deposits. I am not sure Exxon or Valero have these. Just add Chevron Techroline additive every few tanks if you can, but try to use the "Top Tier" fuels, whatever that means. By the way, does your A/C blow cold enough for you in hot weather and are do your brkaes seem strong enough??? Andry Edited July 14, 2008 by DUCKRACER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak in TO Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 When towing ... the manual stats that a slightly higher octane would be helpfull. I use non-ethanol fuels .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 (edited) I now that the dealers and manuals recommend regular gas, and I have a question for you guys, not sure but the Regular gas is supposed to have less additives than the Premium, according to what is said, right? Well I used to work in a gas station for some time and every-time we compare the three kinds of gas, the regular gas was always darker in color, like brownish, yellowish, and always stinks, the premium was always a lot more transparent, I do not now if any additive that cleans the color of the gas, making it more transparent, all the opposite. All of them are darker, how is that possible? Also and not sure why but the regular gas is always more dirty, like more opaque...and all the cars that usually use regular gas, the gas filters were always a lot dirtier than the ones using premium while replaced in our shop... On my old Taurus, a 2000, with 125,000 miles on it, but still working very nice, with regular gas the knocking is really noticeable, with premium, dead silent, something is going on, not sure why? It seems that not all regular gas is the same along the US, or maybe it is not stored with the same care as the more expensive ones...BTW they reco also regular gas on the taurus.... Edited October 27, 2008 by Kanatronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) I now that the dealers and manuals recommend regular gas, and I have a question for you guys, not sure but the Regular gas is supposed to have less additives than the Premium, according to what is said, right? Well I used to work in a gas station for some time and every-time we compare the three kinds of gas, the regular gas was always darker in color, like brownish, yellowish, and always stinks, the premium was always a lot more transparent, I do not now if any additive that cleans the color of the gas, making it more transparent, all the opposite. All of them are darker, how is that possible? Also and not sure why but the regular gas is always more dirty, like more opaque...and all the cars that usually use regular gas, the gas filters were always a lot dirtier than the ones using premium while replaced in our shop... On my old Taurus, a 2000, with 125,000 miles on it, but still working very nice, with regular gas the knocking is really noticeable, with premium, dead silent, something is going on, not sure why? It seems that not all regular gas is the same along the US, or maybe it is not stored with the same care as the more expensive ones...BTW they reco also regular gas on the taurus.... Hi kanatronic. :D If your 2000 Taurus with 125,000 miles on it is knocking, it is likely due to the engine being out of tune, and/or it has deposits on the pistons and valves that are causing the knocking. Essentially, those deposits take up displacement volume, thereby increasing the compression ratio, leading to pre-ignition (knocking/pinging) A full tune-up and a good engine cleaner treatment should take care of the problem. That being said, it is not valid to compare an 8-9 year old car with 125,000 miles to a new car, as they are two different animals. I realize you already know that, but I am just mentioning the fact so others do no get confused and think premium fuel is the correct fuel for all new cars. But in either case, a well maintained vehicle that is built to use only 87 octane fuel will see absolutely no benefit from higher octane fuel use. in fact, as our Owners Manual clearly mentions, high octane fuels (higher than 87) can actually cause problems in vehicles that are not required to use premium fuels. The Edge/MKX are prime examples. While it used to be the case years ago that premium fuel had additives which the lower grades did not, that is no longer the case with the Major Brand name fuels. It is sometimes still the case with discount fuel from off brand gas stations. Essentially, you need to be careful where you buy your gas from. The simple way to look at this is as follows: If premium fuel actually gave any fuel mileage or power benefits, the Auto Manufacturers would recommend premium fuel in all of their vehicles, instead of only those that have an Engine management System programmed for it. They spend millions of dollars a year to squeeze out a few extra tenths of a MPG from their engines for higher EPA Mileage ratings. If using premium would actually give the big boost in MPG's that some people claim, the Auto Manufacturers would jump all over that fact. Premium fuel will only make a difference in engines that are optimized for the higher octane. Using it in an engine not optimized for premium is simply a waste of money. For anyone who doubts this information, it is readily available with just a minimum of research. Good luck. :beerchug: Edited October 28, 2008 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) I have been reading here and there, trying to get some real info, and added my short experience in the field, having worked in a gas station while I was a kid, where one of the coworkers worked for Amoco, taking sample of gas, and sharing some results in gas tests at that time, and I would like that any member with real info, maybe statistics, data, will illustrate us in how a high grade gas that is supposed to burn slower, at lower temperatures, and in a more uniform and efficient way, with less turbulence and less explosions, creating less carbon and deposits, and offering a better emission spectrum will damage or cause any adverse effect on an engine designed to be run with 87 octane? One thing is that many people consider that is a waste of money, because supposedly you will not get any benefit, and another very different is to say that it will somewhat damage your engine, I would like to see any real data, any real info to share from any manufacturer, just curious??? I think that I will try again regular this weekend to see if I feel any benefits to report... :rolleyes: Also not sure if the manufacturers, fight or not to get tenths out of the MPG ratings but most of the times they lie all they want, I can tell you for sure, that there is no way of getting in city driving (at least not in my area) more than 10MPG maximum out of any Edge, those 14MPG are IMO an illusion of whomever wrote that manual...Never in the few months that I have been driving it, with any kind o gas, I was able to get more than 9-10, ten and fraction maybe, MPG... BTW my Taurus engine was cleaned and serviced freq, recently it got a tune up, all parts were premium parts, and it runs very nice despite the mileage, the noise was not because of the deposits, was because of the gas used... BTW not sure what the big deal in the manual ratings is now, AFAIK many domestic cars, and even imported had always recommended 87 or higher in their manuals for years, that is not new at all, what is all the sudden fuzz now about that, is that really new??? My 86' Chevy celebrity (RIP) manual IIRC, stated also 87 as the recommended, and that was more than 10 years ago... Edited December 25, 2008 by Kanatronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) I have been reading here and there, trying to get some real info, and added my short experience in the field, having worked in a gas station while I was a kid, where one of the coworkers worked for Amoco, taking sample of gas, and sharing some results in gas tests at that time, and I would like that any member with real info, maybe statistics, data, will illustrate us in how a high grade gas that is supposed to burn slower, at lower temperatures, and in a more uniform and efficient way, with less turbulence and less explosions, creating less carbon and deposits, and offering a better emission spectrum will damage or cause any adverse effect on an engine designed to be run with 87 octane? One thing is that many people consider that is a waste of money, because supposedly you will not get any benefit, and another very different is to say that it will somewhat damage your engine, I would like to see any real data, any real info to share from any manufacturer, just curious??? I think that I will try again regular this weekend to see if I feel any benefits to report... :rolleyes: Also not sure if the manufacturers, fight or not to get tenths out of the MPG ratings but most of the times they lie all they want, I can tell you for sure, that there is no way of getting in city driving (at least not in my area) more than 10MPG maximum out of any Edge, those 14MPG are IMO an illusion of whomever wrote that manual...Never in the few months that I have been driving it, with any kind o gas, I was able to get more than 9-10, ten and fraction maybe, MPG... BTW my Taurus engine was cleaned and serviced freq, recently it got a tune up, all parts were premium parts, and it runs very nice despite the mileage, the noise was not because of the deposits, was because of the gas used... BTW not sure what the big deal in the manual ratings is now, AFAIK many domestic cars, and even imported had always recommended 87 or higher in their manuals for years, that is not new at all, what is all the sudden fuzz now about that, is that really new??? My 86' Chevy celebrity (RIP) manual IIRC, stated also 87 as the recommended, and that was more than 10 years ago... Hi Kanatronic. :D Let me state upfront that I am not trying to be a wiseguy and that I am not particularly interested in Internet debates, nor am I a member of the forum to debate or argue with people.. Also, you seem like a sincere, well intentioned forum member who is honestly interested in his vehicle. That being said, most of the information you state above is quite incorrect, and if you read my previous post above carefully, the answers were all there. You can corroborate any of the information I or others have provided by doing a quick Internet search concerning fuel Octane. And as opposed to us having to provide research to you proving our point of view, I would ask that you provide "any real data, any real info to share from any manufacturer." No auto manufacturer or gasoline manufacturer will tell you to use a premium fuel in a vehicle that does not have an Engine Management system programmed to take advantage of it. If you can find one that does, please provide a link to that information. In the meantime, all you need to so is read your Owners Manual for proof that what we said is correct. Premium fuel (any Octane above 87) is a waste of money and can cause problems in the Edge/MKX engine. It will give no performance or MPG gain. This is printed in the Owners Manual. Sorry for the repetition, but I can not state it any clearer than I already had. Sheesh, I posted that reply two months ago, and now I have to get drawn into this silly discussion that you are having with akirby in the other thread? Unfortunately Kanatronic, akirby is correct and you are mistaken. I was staying out of your debate with him (sorry akirby) because I could see that you were really not open to the information he and others were providing, and I do not enjoy wasting time debating an obvious point that can be easily researched by reading the Edge Owners Manual or with a few minutes on the Internet. It is as simple as reading your Owners Manual to get the answers to your questions, if you do not believe what I and others (like akirby) have tried to explain. If you read your Owners Manual, you will find that Ford specifically tells us to use 87 Octane fuel, that there will be no benefit from higher Octane, and that use of a higher Octane can cause problems to the engine management system. I am not sure what other proof you need, but if you need further proof all you have to do is some basic Internet research. Any Auto Manufacturer or Automotive Engineer will tell you the same thing. And every major gasoline manufacturer will also tell you the same thing. They will all tell you to use the Octane recommended by your vehicles manufacturer. It is as simple as that. Here is a partial copy and paste from the Edge Owners Manual (bold and underlined): Octane recommendations Your vehicle is designed to use “Regular” unleaded gasoline with pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87. We do not recommend the use of gasolines labeled as “Regular” that are sold with octane ratings of 86 or lower in high altitude areas. Do not be concerned if your engine sometimes knocks lightly. However, if it knocks heavily under most driving conditions while you are using fuel with the recommended octane rating, see your authorized dealer to prevent any engine damage. 87 (R+M)/2 METHOD Maintenance and Specifications Fuel quality If you are experiencing starting, rough idle or hesitation driveability problems, try a different brand of unleaded gasoline. “Premium” unleaded gasoline is not recommended for vehicles designed to use “Regular” unleaded gasoline because it may cause these problems to become more pronounced. If the problems persist, see your authorized dealer. As you can see, it clearly states not to use "Premium" fuel. To point out some of your errors in information, I would address just a few of the things you say in this sentence above: "I would like that any member with real info, maybe statistics, data, will illustrate us in how a high grade gas that is supposed to burn slower, at lower temperatures, and in a more uniform and efficient way, with less turbulence and less explosions, creating less carbon and deposits, and offering a better emission spectrum will damage or cause any adverse effect on an engine designed to be run with 87 octane?" First, higher Octane fuels need a higher temperature to burn, not a lower one. That is why they are more resistant to pre-detonation. Higher Octane, Premium fuels are needed in higher performance, higher compression ratio engines. They do not "burn slower", and they do not burn at a "lower temperature", they simply resist pre-detonation. They resist burning. They do not burn "with less turbulence and less explosions". They do not create "less carbon and deposits", nor do they affect emissions in any way. The fact that they resist pre-ignition (or ignition) is why they can cause problems (including engine deposits) when used in engines not optimized for higher Octane (like the Edge/MKX). If you use Shell 87 Octane, you will be getting the same additive packages as far as engine detergents etc, that you get in Shell 93 Octane. The same goes for Amoco, Exxon, etc. The only time that detergent additive package will vary is with off brand, bargain gasolines. The only difference in additives in Premium fuels are the additives that are needed to make the fuel resistant to pre-detonation. That additive used to simply be lead. Now, due to Environmental concerns, it is no longer lead. But the Premium additives do nothing other than resist pre-detonation. They do not burn cleaner, slower, with less explosions, less turbulence, etc, etc, etc. There is no benefit to using higher Octane fuels other than to resist pre-detonation. That information is readily available to you or anyone else with a simple Google. If a vehicles Engine Management system is not programmed to take advantage of higher Octane, it is a waste of money. And the Edge/MKX Engine management system is not programmed to use any fuel with an Octane higher than 87 Octane. Again, that information is printed right in the Owners Manual. Next, you may be "not sure if the manufacturers, fight or not to get tenths out of the MPG ratings", but those of us more familiar with the Automotive industry are sure that they do, so the fact that you are not sure does not change the reality. You can not use the fact that you are not sure about something to try and prove a point. That just is not very logical nor sensible. It is a fact that they spend millions of dollars to try and engineer their engines to get as many MPG's as possible. So if using a higher Octane would help get better fuel mileage in the Edge/MKX, they would tell us to use a higher Octane. Next, you state that "BTW not sure what the big deal in the manual ratings is now, AFAIK many domestic cars, and even imported had always recommended 87 or higher in their manuals for years, that is not new at all, what is all the sudden fuzz now about that, is that really new???" There is no "sudden fuzz". You asked a question in this thread about fuels and your high mileage Taurus, and I answered. It makes no sense to not follow the Owners Manual recommendation just because it is what has been recommended for years. Ford tells us that 87 Octane is the recommended fuel, and not to use a higher Octane. What else do you need to know? If you wish to continue using 89, 91 or 93 Octane, go ahead. It is your right to do so. However, your Owners Manual tells you not to, Ford tells you not to, and the Gasoline Manufacturers tell you not to. The fact that you worked at a gas station for a time when you were a kid is completely irrelevant to these facts. Gasoline technology and production has changed dramatically in the intervening years. Essentially, for you to be correct, you would have us believe that every Auto Manufacturer, respected Automotive expert and gasoline Manufacturer is lying, and we should believe your "information" instead of what they tell us. Well, I am not ready to make that leap. If you feel that any of this information is incorrect, you should really contact Ford and the Gasoline Manufacturers to debate it with them. Again, I am not trying to be a wiseguy, just trying to waste as little time as possible trying explaining the realities of Octane and fuel usage to you. Nothing I wrote was meant to be insulting in any way, and my underlined and bold sections are only meant to emphasize areas I consider important, not as "Internet yelling". I have simply tried to address the most erroneous statements you made in your last post and explain the true facts. No Auto Manufacturer or Fuel Manufacturer agrees with your point of view, and some simple research is all that is needed to realize that fact. Sorry, I know I repeated some variation of the phrase "if you read your Owners Manual" a dozen times or more, but it is a phrase that needs repeating. If you feel more comfortable using "Premium" fuels, feel free to do so. But the facts are readily available for anyone (including you) who is willing to research them. Good luck and I hope you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. :beerchug: Edited December 26, 2008 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) I do not feel that you are trying to play as a wise guy, but unfortunatelly you misunderstood my post here, I was just asking for information, honestly I'm not trying to argue anymore, not trying to prove any point, just trying to get the light, based on facts, becasue I feel that there is no so much real accurate info, and just retorical answeres mentioning the same sources we have read than contain that same lacking info, will not do any good to this cause... Don't tell me that a quick search, will show it, as at least I have not been able to find it yet. All I was looking for, is information, not articles stating the same based on nothing. I would like to read some kind of study, for example, in which someone had conducted a test and arrive to conclusions based on that test, again such experiment, test, information exists??? All that wrong information that I have posted (with the exception of the very personal experience) have been copied and pasted from online sources, I didn't generate or create that info, why should I? Those same sources that anybody could read, and get misinformed as I seem to be now. That means that if this information is wrong (as it seems to be the case) then all those sources and whomever posted it on the articles I read, is wrong as well. Then as a result it seems to me that we are entering in some kind of misinformaed area of the human knowledge in which anybody can post as they wish. Resuming the fact is that I have not been able to find any accurate information with facts, and based in statistical info, other that what this or that guy say (but according to what?) I know what is recommneded, but I would like to know why? And if this why exist where it is? That is what I'm trying to find, and looking for, sorry do not misunderstand my post, I'm not trying to argue, just trying to get useful information as opposed to retorical speeches...I have tried all the major brand of gas pages as you say, none of them provide any statistical data as why high octane may damage engines designed for lower octane...And some of them reco that if noise occurs, use a higher grade...What seems to be contradictory. About the so called manual, that many of you use as a bible, it says as well 14MPG driving in th city, what IME is a joke, and also they recomend bulbs in the tail-lights that burn the sockets...as we all have seen here, just open your taillights you will see for yourself, I'm waiting for the dealer to call me with the parts to replace all in mine...So to me that is not a trusty source for info, there is no info neither about the weight ratings for the airbags to get connect of disconned, while using the passenger seats. As you know the light lights up or shuts down depending on the weight on the passenger seat, well I was trying ot get the ratings, nobody in Ford knows, i was like two hours with some guyns on the phone and they were not able to get that info for me neither, contacted three different dealers and all three gave me different figures, so to me, the info in this field is somewhat uncertain. So why some areas of that manual should be trusted, and others not??? Edited December 25, 2008 by Kanatronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 I have tried all the major brand of gas pages as you say, none of them provide any statistical data as why high octane may damage engines designed for lower octane...And some of them reco that if noise occurs, use a higher grade...What seems to be contradictory. I'm trying to be nice here but you're not helping. It's a well known scientific fact that the octane rating of gasoline only affects how quickly and easily it ignites. When the air/fuel mixture is compressed by the piston it's possible for it to spontaneously ignite before the spark plug fires. This is pre-detonation or knocking. The engine has a knock sensor and if it detects pre-detonation it will retard the engine timing to prevent it. When this happens both power and fuel economy are usually reduced. When an engine is tuned to run on premium it either has a higher compression ratio (or forced induction which has the same effect) or the timing has been advanced for more power and better fuel economy. If you run regular in a premium tuned engine the knock sensor will retard the timing to compensate and you lose fuel economy and power (best case) or (worst case) the engine cannot compensate and the pre-detonation damages the pistons. However, using premium in a car designed only for regular will not accomplish anything except to lighten your wallet, because the engine cannot take advantage of the higher octane by advancing the timing (compression ratio is almost always fixed). Some brands may use extra detergents in their premium fuel but they're just that - extra - and not needed since all fuel is required to have adequate detergent levels. So you're getting detergents and octane that you don't need and can't use. However, I have found no articles that state any specific damage that could be caused by using premium unnecessarily. So I don't know if that's true or not. If it is true then it's probably some rare case or requires very prolonged use and Ford is just doing a CYA with the owner's manual. About the so called manual, that many of you use as a bible, it says as well 14MPG driving in th city, what IME is a joke You obviously have no clue about how the advertised fuel economy is calculated. It's done by the EPA - NOT by the mfrs. The EPA has a fixed test that they use for city and highway driving so that you get the same exact test for every vehicle. The test has certain parameters for how quickly the vehicle accelerates, how fast it goes and for how long, etc. This is the ONLY mpg figure the mfrs can advertise and again - they have NO CONTROL over the tests. This also means that unless you drive exactly the way the EPA does their test you won't get the same mileage. If you're getting 10 mpg in a car rated at 14 mpg then you can expect to get 10 mpg from ANY vehicle with a 14 mpg EPA rating. It's only for comparison purposes. Some people get way MORE than the EPA estimates. So to me that is not a trusty source for info, there is no info neither about the weight ratings for the airbags to get connect of disconned, while using the passenger seats. As you know the light lights up or shuts down depending on the weight on the passenger seat, well I was trying ot get the ratings, nobody in Ford knows, i was like two hours with some guyns on the phone and they were not able to get that info for me neither, contacted three different dealers and all three gave me different figures, so to me, the info in this field is somewhat uncertain. So why some areas of that manual should be trusted, and others not??? Maybe that's because there's no reason for you to know. You have no control over it and can't change it. What difference does it make whether it's 15 lbs or 30 lbs or 45 lbs? They don't publish every little spec detail, especially those that don't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 However, I have found no articles that state any specific damage that could be caused by using premium unnecessarily. So I don't know if that's true or not. If it is true then it's probably some rare case or requires very prolonged use and Ford is just doing a CYA with the owner's manual. You obviously have no clue about how the advertised fuel economy is calculated. It's done by the EPA - NOT by the mfrs. The EPA has a fixed test that they use for city and highway driving so that you get the same exact test for every vehicle. The test has certain parameters for how quickly the vehicle accelerates, how fast it goes and for how long, etc. This is the ONLY mpg figure the mfrs can advertise and again - they have NO CONTROL over the tests. This also means that unless you drive exactly the way the EPA does their test you won't get the same mileage. If you're getting 10 mpg in a car rated at 14 mpg then you can expect to get 10 mpg from ANY vehicle with a 14 mpg EPA rating. It's only for comparison purposes. Some people get way MORE than the EPA estimates. Maybe that's because there's no reason for you to know. You have no control over it and can't change it. What difference does it make whether it's 15 lbs or 30 lbs or 45 lbs? They don't publish every little spec detail, especially those that don't matter. Buddy do not stone me alive, I'm just trying to figure out how to get some extra information that I was not able to find, just that...at the beginning it was true that I was argumentative, but that is not the case now, trust me, I just want to find any reliable source of info, all you have posted is what is said, and we have read that, but as you said I do not know of any case of damage becasue of the use of premium... You are absolutely right about the gas ratings, EPA tests, I have no clue, but honestly they are very far from reality, as we have seen here multiple complaints of fuel eficinecy ratings being wrong, not in vane. About the air bags, my only concern about that rating was becasue I did had a problem, I was just trying to find out, as while I got the car I noticed that while I always placed my backpack over the front passenger seat, the light was on, some time after using it, the light began to shut off with no reason as there was no change in may habits, or the weight of the bag, same weight, sometimes on sometimes off, that was not normal, so I took it ot the dealer to be checked, and that was while the problem began, nobody knew if it was right or wrong, as nobody had the right figure, or why it was at the beginning on and now off with the same weight, till now it has been a mystery, and not sure if iti still working right or wrong, and that is asafety issue in case it is not working as it should be...I never expected those to be poblished but at least I expected that someone in Ford Motor Company knew about those, till now they do not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 The best way to test it is to try different weights and see if the light ever comes on. If not then something is wrong. That would be more productive than trying to figure out the programmed weight limit. Try a bag of sugar or flour or hand weights. The only danger I can see is if you have a small child (or dog perhaps) in the seat and it does NOT disable the airbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 And BTW - there are a LOT of people who get the EPA mileage (sometimes more). In 2008 the EPA changed their test cycles to be more accurate and the advertised MPG dropped by a few mpg. Lots of good info here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 The best way to test it is to try different weights and see if the light ever comes on. If not then something is wrong. That would be more productive than trying to figure out the programmed weight limit. Try a bag of sugar or flour or hand weights. The only danger I can see is if you have a small child (or dog perhaps) in the seat and it does NOT disable the airbags. While I took it to the dealer they say they reset the values to the default ones, and that should be OK, but not sure how they did it, if they were not able to tell me the weight limit, not have a way of testing it otherwise. My major concern is not the light, is that for some reason the bag gets desconnected permanently and in case of an accident, they do not act the way they are intended to... If I apply more weight, like for example put on the seat the toolbox, the light get ons, aslo while my doggy step on, the light turns on, but it is more becasue of him moving, than of the actual weight, as he weights about 24lbs... And BTW - there are a LOT of people who get the EPA mileage (sometimes more). In 2008 the EPA changed their test cycles to be more accurate and the advertised MPG dropped by a few mpg. Lots of good info here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov I will take a look at those sites later on, now my family got here, so I ahve ottake care fo them... Thanks for the info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 26, 2008 Report Share Posted December 26, 2008 My major concern is not the light, is that for some reason the bag gets desconnected permanently and in case of an accident, they do not act the way they are intended to... The airbags are tested every time the car starts. If they weren't working you'd get an airbag warning light. If I apply more weight, like for example put on the seat the toolbox, the light get ons, aslo while my doggy step on, the light turns on, but it is more becasue of him moving, than of the actual weight, as he weights about 24lbs... Sounds like it's working fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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