Trans won’t downshift when gas pedal aggressively floored

[kkkkken]

2013 Edge  LTD - AWD- 175,000kms.  3.5 ltrj

 

When driving at say 60 km/h and then I mash the gas pedal to floor - (to make a pass) it seems to shift transmission down one gear, then it’s as if the  trans won’t allow it to stay in a lower gear and it feels like the car is bucking like a wild horse trying to kick a rider off.  

 

When driving at normal acceleration it up shifts just fine - and when slight gas pedal is applied it will downshift and hold one lower gear.  It downshifts fine as in when coming to a stop. 

 

You wouldnt know there was an issue unless you mash the gas pedal and aggressively try to accelerate.  

 

Any ideas what what the cause could be ???

 

thanks in advance.  

[ben senise]

6 hours ago, kkkkken said:

and it feels like the car is bucking like a wild horse trying to kick a rider off.  

 

so are you saying that it downshifts then upshifts then down, up, down, up? that's what i think of when you say "bucking"

 

[kkkkken]

No - it feels like it downshifts one gear then with my foot flat on the floor the motor Feels/sounds like it’s revving way up but it’s not staying revved up.  Could almost describe it as a bogging down feel but the motor sure seems like it’s screaming and trying to go.  

[ben senise]

1 hour ago, kkkkken said:

No - it feels like it downshifts one gear then with my foot flat on the floor the motor Feels/sounds like it’s revving way up but it’s not staying revved up.  Could almost describe it as a bogging down feel but the motor sure seems like it’s screaming and trying to go.  

 

so the engine is revving but the car isn't accelerating?

 

what are the RPM doing? The red line on that engine is somewhere over 6000 RPM. What's happening when you stomp on it, do the revs go way up? there's a rev limiter and when you hit that, it cuts out. then, when the revs go down you'll accelerate again and hit the limiter.

 

does the transmission on the '13 have a sport mode? can you manually choose gears?

[kkkkken]

Maybe this is a better description of what is happening. 

 

2013 Edge LTD - AWD.   If driving at steady speed - say 60 km/h (35 mph) and then nail the throttle as if to pass, I feel the trans downshift once - and then it feels like the motor is revving but the trans won’t stay in that lower gear and it makes the car feel like it’s bogging down. Won’t accelerate with foot mashed down on gas.  

Following doing this - a high pitched squeel from the right side of engine is heard - but it goes away after 10-15 seconds.  

When driving very normally and lightly accelerating it goes through the gears smoothly and downshifts smoothly when coming to a stop.  

Check engine light is now on - steady.   Will take it to get codes read tomoro.  

Do these symptoms sound familiar to anyone ?

175,000 kms (about 110,000 miles) on the odometer.

 

i don’t believe it’s hitting the rev limiter - if you need to pull out and pass you should be able to floor the gas for a second or two to get it moving.  Yes my 13 has the manual shift option on the shift lever.  

[omar302]

Maybe it is the engine misfiring? When were the Spark Plugs changed? if never, and given your mileage, they probably need replacement. But since you already have the check engine light, then see what code(s) you have.

[kkkkken]

Omar - your suggestion crossed my mind. Thanks.  

 

Plugs are original - I know - too many miles on them but as you mentioned if the codes pull up an issue withthe plugs or coils - I’ll be quite ok with that compared to a  transmission issue. 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

AWD always brings PTU to mind.  I would check level and condition of the fluid via the fill plug.  Would not be surprised if it is sludgy and well below the fill line.  If you try a WOT launch from a stop, how does it behave?  Does it feel like something is going to break?  Or that the wheel is hopping?  Then the PTU is done for.

[ben senise]

13 hours ago, kkkkken said:

 

and then it feels like the motor is revving but the trans won’t stay in that lower gear and it makes the car feel like it’s bogging down.

 

 

if you're on a level road, doing 60 kph, with a light foot on the pedal, i'd guess that the car would have you in 5th gear around 1500 rpm. i think 60 is too slow for 6th. when you stomp on the pedal, i would think the transmission would drop down to 3rd and the revs would jump to 4-5000(?).

 

so when you say bogging down, do you mean the transmission shifts back up a gear and the rpm drop to what they were when you were cruising at 60? if so, then the transmission is just not holding the lower gear for some reason.

 

[kkkkken]

Update - had the code scanned and it came back as a catalytic converter - bank 1 which I believe is the catalytic converter on the firewall side of motor - just below the exhaust manifold.  

 

Apparently the theory is that under light load - as in exactly how my wife drives all the time - the exhaust is able to exit no problem.  When lead foot me steps on the gas - the additional accelerated combustion can’t exit through the converter fast enough and effectively causes a misfire because the fumes are slowed down from leaving.  

 

Garage said $800 for that converter - I’ve checked online at places like Rockauto and I can get it for about $300 delivered to me.   Not sure who is going to do the install now - as I’m not willing to pay a shop an extra $500 just for ordering the part from their local Napa or carquest.  

 

So is this converter a DIY type of driveway repair or do I need a lift and torch to swap it in ??

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Worth trying upstream fixes first as omar referred to earlier - plug change, coil change (or at least resistance verify), Techron Concentrate Plus or BG 44K, even Cataclean.  MAY clear up on its own may not.  If the problem originated upstream, which is very likely, then the new cat will go down the same road.  Pulling the plugs will at least tell you whether this approach has value.

[omar302]

Like what @WWWPerfA_ZN0W  stated, try the other things first. What was the code scanned? Converter not working properly might just be a symptom of what is actually wrong.

[kkkkken]

Update :

 

went for for a second opinion to the shop that does my wheel alignments and here is his response after scanning the codes and doin a test drive with scanner attached :

 

1) cylinders 1,2,3 misfiring like crazy.  

2) bank 1 cat is a gonner. (Firewall side)

 

So - he figures - as did some of you - that the misfires were likely the initial trigger for the death of the converter.   Because my wife drives this car so gently, she never noticed an issue with the motor under hard acceleration - as she never did that. 

 

As the intake plenum has to be removed to do the plugs - I’ve ordered coils as well for the back 3.   Additionally a new pcv valve, plenum gasket, spark plugs, belt tensioner, belt, and while the converter is removed - I believe access to the PTU fill bolt is made a little easier - so I’ll ask him to drain with a suction what is in there and then refill with whatever is supposed to go back in - I’ll have to look that up.  

 

Parts are now on order from RockAuto to the tune of $700 Canadian.   My second garage was cool with me sourcing the parts - and he will get this done once I get the parts in.  

 

I hope this this solves things and gives a little more life to this car for us.  

 

Thanks all, for your comments and suggestions !!

Edited November 21, 2018 by kkkkken

[ben senise]

thanks for the update. it's always useful for the rest of us to know what happened.

[omar302]

How did they determine that the bank 1 cat is gone? If it was only by the code, I'd do the spark plugs, reset the codes and test it. If the code for the cat comes back again, then replace it.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Should get the kit from Ford for 2007-10 Edges.  The coils will work fine for the 3.5L engine in 2011+ as well.  If you got OEM coils, this is a big savings over individual pricing.

BA5Z-12259-A 

 

Order online for the least hassle.

[kkkkken]

One more update - got the Edge back today from the shop :

 

Update / for those interested ..... codes came back as catalytic converter efficiency issue - cylinders 1,2,3 misfiring.  So - ordered new Catalytic converter(rear bank), three new coils, 6 spark plugs, belt tensioner and belt, pcv valve, intake plenum gasket and the special oil for the PTU while the mechanic is tearing it apart.   I think it was about 6 hours of labour on total - parts from Rock auto were about $700 and labour was another $700. Expensive repair but a lot of parts put in - and hopefully this gets us another year or two of use.    The PTU was thirsty for oil - apparently they weren’t able to suction anything out of it ....   fingers crossed that it’s ok for awhile.

 

And - the catalytic converter was clogged pretty badly.  No internal parts were broken or chunked up but definitely clogged and extremely sooty.  Huge difference in driving - out foot to the floor couple times after getting it back and it is now breathing and firing on all 6.  

[ben senise]

thanks for the update. it's always nice to know what happened in the end with the problem. hope you get many more km out of it.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

^^^ X2.  Good luck, hope the Edge stays fixed