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Premium gas vs. regular: what's really better


enigma-2

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From the 2019 Edge owners manual. 2.0LEB

 

For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer.

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The only difference between the two is that premium has more anti-knock. If you run regular and the engine knocks, up it to mid-grade or premium.

 

Remember when it used to be called Ethyl?

 

Remember when you used to pull in gas station and the pump attendant would ask you which gas you wanted, (regular or Ethyl), clean your windshield, check your oil (I was taught to use two fingers under the dipstick colar to push an extra quart of oil) refill the windshield washer resovior (with water of course) & check the air in your tires?

 

Remember when we still used leaded gasoline?

 

Raise your hand if you've ever used to phrase "get the lead out".

 

Remember when most cars smoked a little, about one out of five were oil burners?

 

Remember when you use to have the roll the window down and stick your arm out to signal a turn? Straight out for a left turn, right angle pointing up for a right turn?

 

Remember when you used to "roll" the windows up and down?

 

Remember triangular "vent" windows?

 

Remember when windshield wipers ran on vacuum and would stop when going uphill or accelerating?

 

Remember when radios were optional?

 

Remember 9' long CB radio antennas that would whip back and forth when driving?

 

Remember balloon tires?

 

Remember 50/50 front shocks that would allow the front end to fly up in the air under hard acceleration.

 

Remember when two-tone paint jobs were an upgrade?

 

Remember when people would cover the upholstery with clear plastic seat covers to protect the cloth from dirt, oils and damage?

 

Remember when dashboards were made from metal and had a magnetic plastic Jesus sitting on them? (Remember the song "I don't care if it rains or freezes as long as I got my plastic Jesus, sitt'in on the dashboard of my car"?)

 

Remember fuzzy dice hanging from the rear view mirror?

 

Remember pop music where all song frequencies were were attenuated so they would play on a car's AM radio without distortion? (Chopped off the base and highs).

 

Everyone knows the corvette & T-bird. Remember the Studebaker Lark?

 

Remember the Nash Rambler? (It was like riding inside a basketball being dribbled.)

 

Remember the fins on a 59 caddy which mimicked the fins of a rocket; at the beginning of the "space age"? (Now THAT was a great car).

 

Remember cars that had "automatic" transmission's with a clutch pedal?

 

Remember baby dish moon hubcaps?

 

Remember "Big Daddy Garlits?

 

No? Neither do I.

 

I remember all of those things. I am older than dirt.

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I can absolutly confirm there IS a difference in the 3.5NA. Using Forscan I can see an average of 35 degree timing advance, and with 93 octane, the VCT solenoids provide closer to 50 degrees.

 

Wether or not this provides a performance/economy gain is still up for debate, but the PCM definitly sees it.

 

As far as price, here in NJ a tank of 87 costs me around $40, and around $45 for 93. Not a big difference at all.

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I can absolutly confirm there IS a difference in the 3.5NA. Using Forscan I can see an average of 35 degree timing advance, and with 93 octane, the VCT solenoids provide closer to 50 degrees.

 

Wether or not this provides a performance/economy gain is still up for debate, but the PCM definitly sees it.

 

As far as price, here in NJ a tank of 87 costs me around $40, and around $45 for 93. Not a big difference at all.

 

It must not have been noticeable for Ford not to mention it in the OM. Good to have some empirical data to go by though!

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It must not have been noticeable for Ford not to mention it in the OM. Good to have some empirical data to go by though!

 

It usually just comes down to marketing. If Ford decides to advertise the peak HP on premium, they will put the note in the owner's guide. The 3.5 was probably rated on regular, so no need to mention anything.

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Been using regular in our BMW 3 series for a few years now, these "recommend" premium fuel. We noticed no difference in power or mpg so why pay the extra $5/tank. Why someone would use premium in a vehicle that is recommended to use regular is beyond me.

Because in some cases it does add more power and mpg by advancing the engine timing. Whether you can notice it or not based on how you drive is an entirely different story.

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  • 3 months later...

Forgive bumping the old thread, but this became timely as I was looking into better sources of fuel after a minor issue with cold weather running.

 

It seems that cheaper sources of fuel that do not use as advanced pH buffers and detergents allow buildup of carbon deposits on critical areas such as the intake valves.  This can result in 2-4% reduction in fuel economy, drivability issues (e.g. rough in very cold weather), and increased emissions (if your State checks those, that could be an issue).  Fuel companies that are adhering to a higher standard of fuel than the legally required minimum have subscribed to a program called Top Tier.  Not only do they have more advanced detergents and carbon-busting properties, but they also pass regular checks at more stringent thresholds than the legal minimum to ensure they are not diluted with contaminants.  I had a little bit of rough running out of the blue as the weather turned cold and tracked it down to a bad tank of fuel.  While some brands like Shell are 15 cents a gallon more, some brands like Chevron or Exxon aren't actually much more expensive than the cheap bad fuel I tried - if anything, there's only 1 or 2 cents a gallon difference.

 

The octane rating, which enables greater advanced timing at higher octane ratings, is independent of the fuel's quality and depends upon your car's ability to detect the higher octane rating to automatically advanced the engine timing.  From what I gather, the 3.5 V6 on my 2015 Edge does not do this to any significant extent - if at all.  The greatest difference to performance, economy, and drivability is going to come from regular services and ensuring through use of quality fuels that the inside of the engine is nice and clean.

 

I've uploaded some Top Tier Gasoline (and Diesel, for completeness) PDFs I found on https://www.toptiergas.com/ when looking into fuel comparisons.  As with all things, do your own due diligence.  :)

 

All the best,

Andrew.

Fuel-Quality-Fact-Sheet-FINAL.pdf

TOP_TIER_GASOLINE_Performance_Standard_revE_2017-03.pdf

TOP_TIER_Diesel_Fuel_Performance_Standard_Rev_A_-_Feb2017.pdf

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1 hour ago, todd92 said:

Top Tier gasoline, which has been a thing for over decade now, can do nothing for intake deposits in direct injected engines.

 

That’s true unless the engine also has port fuel injection in addition to the direct injection which I believe applies to the 2.7LEB in the Edge Sport and the 3.5LEB in other vehicles as of 2018.

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5 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

That’s true unless the engine also has port fuel injection in addition to the direct injection which I believe applies to the 2.7LEB in the Edge Sport and the 3.5LEB in other vehicles as of 2018.

 

I didn't find any mention of the FWD based 2.7 & 3.5 EcoBoost engines getting the new setup. Even Ford's website for the Edge & Explorer show direct injection only with no mention of port injection. 

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Unfortunately I think you’re right and dual injection was only done for the F150s.  I could see why they wouldn’t bother with a transverse 3.5L version - I think that engine is dead when they kill Taurus, Flex and MKT.  It won’t be used in the new Explorer/Aviator and all the other transverse applications appear to be limited to 2.7LEB as the top engine.  Not sure why they wouldn’t do it on the Edge/MKX though.  Probably just a resource/timing issue and it will get it in the next year or two.

Edited by akirby
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3 hours ago, todd92 said:

Top Tier gasoline, which has been a thing for over decade now, can do nothing for intake deposits in direct injected engines.

 

Forgive me for being behind the times, I've been overseas for 20 years and only recently returned home. I'm playing catch-up.

 

I can imagine that a detergent-containing fuel would struggle to remove deposits already in place, although the report from the AAA claimed measured reductions in deposit formation and measured preservation of fuel economy. It seems to be a good preventative measure and there's not a significant cost increase to switching fuel brand loyalty.

 

All the best,

Andrew.

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3 hours ago, akirby said:

Not sure why they wouldn’t do it on the Edge/MKX though.  Probably just a resource/timing issue and it will get it in the next year or two.

 

With no Fusion/MKZ/Continental to share costs, it doesn't seem to make a good business as no other product uses the transverse V6 EcoBoost (2.7/3.0). I'd like to think that the next generation Edge/Nautilus (if they still exist) would be based on the Explorer/Aviator. Kind of like how the new Honda Passport is essentially a 2 row Pilot. 

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2 hours ago, NeuroBeaker said:

 

Forgive me for being behind the times, I've been overseas for 20 years and only recently returned home. I'm playing catch-up.

 

I can imagine that a detergent-containing fuel would struggle to remove deposits already in place, although the report from the AAA claimed measured reductions in deposit formation and measured preservation of fuel economy. It seems to be a good preventative measure and there's not a significant cost increase to switching fuel brand loyalty.

 

All the best,

Andrew.

 

In direct injected engines, the fuel never touches the intake valves, so no cleaning can occur.

 

As far as cost, Costco gas is Top Tier, and it is the cheapest gas available anywhere.  I use it exclusively.  So need to pay more for Top Tier.

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32 minutes ago, todd92 said:

 

In direct injected engines, the fuel never touches the intake valves, so no cleaning can occur.

 

As far as cost, Costco gas is Top Tier, and it is the cheapest gas available anywhere.  I use it exclusively.  So need to pay more for Top Tier.

 

The intake valves seemed to be the point of measurement on the cars that were examined in the AAA study, but they didn't state that this was the sole location of carbon deposits to the exclusion of all other locations in the engine.  I'm sure there are other areas that benefit from having detergents in the fuel.

 

Thanks for the Costco tip.  :)

 

All the best,

Andrew.

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33 minutes ago, todd92 said:

 

In direct injected engines, the fuel never touches the intake valves, so no cleaning can occur.

 

As far as cost, Costco gas is Top Tier, and it is the cheapest gas available anywhere.  I use it exclusively.  So need to pay more for Top Tier.

I also use Costco exclusively, and when I travel I seek out Top Tier stations mostly Shell.

 

The detergents clean the fuel system, and it results in less combustion chamber fouling. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, omar302 said:

 

With no Fusion/MKZ/Continental to share costs, it doesn't seem to make a good business as no other product uses the transverse V6 EcoBoost (2.7/3.0). I'd like to think that the next generation Edge/Nautilus (if they still exist) would be based on the Explorer/Aviator. Kind of like how the new Honda Passport is essentially a 2 row Pilot. 

 

I thought Edge and MKX were moving to CD6 but insiders say no so we’ll have to wait and see.  Either way it would seem to be cheaper and easier to build one version of the engine instead of two.

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