What the ST is, what it might have been?

[Chipster]

I'll say up front that I don't get the idea of a so called performance version of the Edge, but ignore that. My question to you is; Given what we know about it, what do you think Ford should have added / subtracted from it to truly improve its performance from your point of view? Also, what does performance mean to YOU? What exactly do / did you want this vehicle to do / be?

[dolsen]

I dont believe anyone can really answer those questions pertaining to the vehicles performance for another couple months.

 

With that said, more horsepower, more cylinders, more turbos, and less weight is always a good thing. I would request those changes for sure... but that goes for ANY car. But Im performance nut!

[omar302]

They should've put in the 400 HP 3.0L engine.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

For me, performance is built from the ground up. So tires, wheels, brakes, suspension, THEN powertrain mods. Would definitely have been nice to have the 3.0 in there, if they did not hamstring the transmission like they did in the MKZ or the Continental.

[akirby]

Just a guess here but I’m thinking the new drivetrain can only handle the 2.7L without torque management (or without too much TM). So adding the 3.0L may not buy much. 3.0L might end up being a longitudinal engine only.

[037]

3.0 is a 3k option on the Continental and would knock the Edge well out of the price range for most.

 

I will be racing the 3.0 in the next few months :-)

[dolsen]

Just a guess here but Im thinking the new drivetrain can only handle the 2.7L without torque management (or without too much TM). So adding the 3.0L may not buy much. 3.0L might end up being a longitudinal engine only.

Isnt it currently a transverse engine? In both of its applications? (MKZ and Continental are the only two that come to mind, but I could be wrong)

[blitz118]

3.0 is a 3k option on the Continental and would knock the Edge well out of the price range for most.

 

I will be racing the 3.0 in the next few months :-)

I would pay extra for the 3.0. The performance (at least the acceleration) would be best in its class, and still be cheaper than the Germans. Ford would never do that though as they have to give the 3.0 to Lincoln first, and then three years later you might see it in the Edge.

[akirby]

Isnt it currently a transverse engine? In both of its applications? (MKZ and Continental are the only two that come to mind, but I could be wrong)

 

Yes but they have a lot of torque management to make them work. I was referring to the new Aviator and other CD6 vehicles which will be RWD.

[Old Ray]

What exactly do you want this vehicle to be?

 

I have been thinking about this for a few days. (Probably should have keep on thinking).

 

It will be whatever Ford wants it to be................and I am highly appreciative that they are building any "performance" vehicles.

I would think that this is a very small market segment .........and the "what if" portion would be even smaller.

And of course, it is about sales.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Old Ray

[MaX83_ZA]

The Edge ST will be the same as all the other ST's, a mildly warm version of a generally bland car. I still believe they should have kept the sport badge and not try to make this something that it is not.

[akirby]

The Edge ST will be the same as all the other ST's, a mildly warm version of a generally bland car. I still believe they should have kept the sport badge and not try to make this something that it is not.

 

What exactly makes you say this? The tuned 2.7LEB is pretty much at the platform maximum for power so nothing to add there. Big brake kit and a tuned suspension. Not sure what else you think it should have. It’s not a sports car.

[dolsen]

What exactly makes you say this? The tuned 2.7LEB is pretty much at the platform maximum for power so nothing to add there. Big brake kit and a tuned suspension. Not sure what else you think it should have. Its not a sports car.

I have to agree with this. This isnt like ford of the 90s and 00s where a small badge change and remapping the ECU is considered a performance model (Adrenalin sport trac, 08 Bullitt mustang come to mind immediately).

 

I dont think the 3.0 EB wouldve been out of place or too much to ask. Its already 2 years old and is based off of the 2.7. So it should still fit in the engine compartment. I think the power band couldve been shifted around to prevent power train damage or wheel slip and it wouldve been just fine.

[akirby]

I dont think the 3.0 EB wouldve been out of place or too much to ask. Its already 2 years old and is based off of the 2.7. So it should still fit in the engine compartment. I think the power band couldve been shifted around to prevent power train damage or wheel slip and it wouldve been just fine.

 

By the time you apply torque management to the 3.0 you probably don't get any more than the tuned 2.7. Power to the wheels is probably the same.

 

In RWD form with the 10 speed tranny the 3.0L can be fully unleashed.

[MaX83_ZA]

What exactly makes you say this? The tuned 2.7LEB is pretty much at the platform maximum for power so nothing to add there. Big brake kit and a tuned suspension. Not sure what else you think it should have. It’s not a sports car.

 

Exactly, so why give it a ST Badge with track tuned suspension? They should have given it adaptive dampers, the new gearbox more power (325hp is fine) and kept the name. What exactly did they achieve by slapping a ST badge on it? Trying to attract younger buyers I guess?

[akirby]

Exactly, so why give it a ST Badge with track tuned suspension? They should have given it adaptive dampers, the new gearbox more power (325hp is fine) and kept the name. What exactly did they achieve by slapping a ST badge on it? Trying to attract younger buyers I guess?

I guess you don’t understand Ford Performance. It’s the old SVT team. They do a lot more tuning than the regular Edge team did with the Sport.

 

You didn’t answer the question - what else do you think they should have done with it?

[omar302]

Looking at the current performance vehicles from Ford, the Edge ST will be the quickest (0-60 & 1/4 mile) Ford with an ST badge. That is until the Explorer ST comes, which with the 3.0L & 10-speed is still unknown how fast could be. From my memory, ST has always been about half-way sports vehicles, rather than full sports as the RS.

 

Still, an Edge ST with the 3.0L would have been nice. At least now with the 2.7L makes me happier with my Sport .

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

PCM tuning is always on the table. As more experience is gained, better, more diversified and more reliable products are created. So even with what Ford provides, there will be more room

[MaX83_ZA]

I guess you don’t understand Ford Performance. It’s the old SVT team. They do a lot more tuning than the regular Edge team did with the Sport.

 

You didn’t answer the question - what else do you think they should have done with it?

 

Nothing, I dont think they should have created an Edge ST to start with.... Trust me, I understand Ford Performance, I drove ST Fords waayyyyy before they came to North America. I drove the very first Fiesta ST, the one with the high revving 2.0 aspirated 4 popper, the 2.5 5pot Focus ST (both models), previous Gen 1.6 ST and I even owned the outgoing face-lift Focus ST. So I am not sure how much more experience I need before I "understand" Ford performance. Heck, I even have experience with the Ford Mondeo ST 220 and Territory ST.

 

If you want me to tell you what is wrong with ST in general I will gladly do so:

1. Under promise and overdeliver with power and performance figures - stop quoting cars to have 250hp and when you strap them to a dyno they put down only 200hp - look at what the germans are doing with their performance hatchbacks. This is the exact reason why on a dragstrip a Focus RS cant keep up with a faceift Golf R or why a 250hp Focus ST gets slapped around by a 220hp GTI.

2. Stop picking the smallest turbos you can find to make your "quoted" power, cars that stop making power when they reach 5000rpm is called turbo diesels.... Yes, it makes the car feel very fast with little turbo lag and then a big sudden woosh of torque but when you put that on the road against a properly tuned car, it will lose every time.

3. The focus ST and RS is renowned for pretty darn good handling but with uncompromising ride comfort. Tried and tested... The competition, including the new Civic Type R and A class AMG merc, figured out how to fix this. Ford Performance is literally the only company out there that think your car needs to be rock hard firm to be fast.

4. Give the cars some exhaust sound, ST badged cars sounds terrible. I know the new 3 pot Fiesta sounds pretty sweet but its not even coming to NA... You put a Focus RS engine in a Mustang and then slap a family sedan exhaust on it... (last one doesnt count, its just a good example)

5. Fit a proper interior with some nice performance gauges, the germans does it, heck even dodge does it, why is Ford not doing it? (i am not talking a boost guage stuck on the dash...)

 

This is just my opinion.

[akirby]

So just because it doesn't measure up to YOUR standards they shouldn't sell it? Mmmkay.

 

It's an improved Edge Sport. Nothing more nothing less. If you don't want it don't buy it.

[MaX83_ZA]

So just because it doesn't measure up to YOUR standards they shouldn't sell it? Mmmkay.

 

It's an improved Edge Sport. Nothing more nothing less. If you don't want it don't buy it.

 

I believe this topic is discussing what our definitions of performance are and what we think it could\should be mmmkay

 

I was pretty vague with my initial post, you then asked me for more detail, why get butt hurt when i give my opinion? Wow....

[akirby]

Fair enough. I just don't see why calling it a ST is such a problem. There is only so much they can do with the platforms they're given. I expect the Explorer ST based on the RWD CD6 to be spectacular since they won't be hampered with a transverse platform.

[MaX83_ZA]

I just don't see why calling it a ST is such a problem.

 

Because all of the reasons i mentioned are what I deem important for a Performance vehicle (again, my opinion - which Ford does not care about) - a sport badge says faster, not performance - the ST badge says performance and I am pretty sure it is not going to be a performance SUV.

[blitz118]

[TheWizard]

 

4. Give the cars some exhaust sound, 4 cylinder cars sound terrible. You put a Focus RS engine in a Mustang and then slap a family sedan exhaust on it...

 

... Fixed it for you.

 

The reason there's a "family sedan exhaust" on the Ecoboost Mustang is because no Mustang owner wants to listen to a 4-cylinder exhaust (or even admit they have one)... if you're buying a Mustang for performance, you certainly aren't buying the EB. But for those who like the sound of fart cannons (i.e. ricers), there are aftermarket options available.

 

Just the opinion of a Mustang owner.