Is this the end of any FORScan mods?

[tk2fast]

Looks like the OBD interface hardware (VCM2) for the FDRS software is anywhere from $130 to a few thousand for the real Bosch unit. The cheaper units seem to be readily available and have a good rating. Not sure if any other OBD units would work.

 

If Ford would be a little more consistent across the higher end models with the available features, many would not want to change things. Such as the 2016 Fusion has the climate controls display on the right side of the dash, controlled at the steering wheel, but not so in the Edge. It has to be enabled on the Edge in software and bam it's there. Is that so hard to do Ford? Such a useful feature and Ford falls short.

Edited July 8, 2018 by tk2fast

[I'manedgeowner]

For anyone interested, it was the EU's "Block Exemption Regulation" that really started to change our rights to our vehicle electronics. Something called "Vertical Agreements" superseded many of the rules we were accustom to about our rights to access, repair or tinker. Tinker is actually the legal term used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_Exemption_Regulation

 

Edit: I have no idea why this link doesn't work. I can't copy and paste but it's copied character by character.

 

 

 

Furthermore there is a lot of misinformation about reverse engineering and this is from the Supreme Court. The Court determined that End User License Agreements, EULA, supersedes copyright law. EULA falls under contract law which is a state's right to manage. If you can legally reverse engineer your car's electronics depends on the laws in the state you live in. The Supreme Court ruled that auto manufacturers "Exhausted their control with the initial sale. Once sold, they cannot tell the new owner what to do," but the state can. The Repair Association took the manufacturers to court and won. https://repair.org/legislation/

 

I should add doing something for yourself, for others and for profit all have different meanings with this.

Edited July 8, 2018 by I'manedgeowner

[tk2fast]

Thank you, this was my initial point!

 

"The Supreme Court ruled that auto manufacturers "Exhausted their control with the initial sale. Once sold, they cannot tell the new owner what to do," but the state can."

[akirby]

Thank you, this was my initial point!

 

"The Supreme Court ruled that auto manufacturers "Exhausted their control with the initial sale. Once sold, they cannot tell the new owner what to do," but the state can."

But Ford can also refuse to provide future software updates or provide warranty service.

[tk2fast]

All true. Easiest way for me to deal with it is make it part of the original purchase, as it's too much hassle otherwise. Especially when considering needing just a few items changed.

Edited July 9, 2018 by tk2fast

[I'manedgeowner]

tk2fast,

 

I have a feeling you are reading too much in to this. It's your car, your PCM and your rights. This doesn't mean you have the right for some third party to market a device for you to realize your rights. As I said earlier, if you want to peruse a couple of million lines of code, have at it. Also, a lot of this is going to change soon because of autonomous driving and security.

 

Another thing and if I understand it right, when Ford took Autel to court they lost but they lost because of the legal argument used. Ford lawyers challenged Autel on the information they were using rather than challenging the right of Autel to access the information and incorporate Ford's system in to theirs and distribute the information as their own without a proper licensing agreement. There's also the issue of manufacturers that license third party systems and someone piggy backing on the manufacturers license. As I said earlier, Ford Performance licenses their electric steering from AiM so should Autel have the right to access AiM intellectual property by default? An analogy as I see it. Your neighbor wants a wider driveway and uses 3 feet of your yard to widen it. You take the neighbor to court challenging the neighbors right to widen the driveway. You lose and the court tells you, you don't have the authority to dictate to your neighbor how wide the driveway can be. So the court tells you, you need to challenge your neighbor on using your yard to widen the driveway and not the right to widen it.

 

Maybe this is an over simplification but it makes sense to me. A lot of all this seems nuanced and unfortunately the law doesn't work on the concept of, "but you know what I meant," and requires the right argument to fit the situation. Conversely a manufacturer can't put mandated systems in to programming that is impossible to access. Impossible and hard aren't the same.

 

Also, manufacturers do have proprietary protocols which they do have the right to restrict access to as they see fit. Two obvious protocols on the list for Ford are Sync and PATS. There's nothing in the Code of Federal Regulations, CFR, mandating how they work.

 

I'm no lawyer but I do try to understand my rights because of the "tinkering" I do so I try to keep up on this stuff but I'm not above getting something wrong. I spent a lot of time with the CFR in graduate school and I suffered a lot extra hours of work because I made inferences and assumptions with the CFR rather than being specific without reading in to what was written. Sometimes when I read discussions like this though I get the idea that people are in agreement as they debate some point as if they're not. There's a reason why more and more high end scanners are no longer generic OBD2 code readers. They are becoming more manufacturer specific with each model year because all of this is getting more and more complicated.

 

EDIT: Last I saw there were only 19 states that said you have the right to reverse engineer.

Edited July 9, 2018 by I'manedgeowner

[tk2fast]

Thanks for your in depth interpretation. I just get a little testy when I see all the rules and regulations on what is right and what is wrong. I grew up at a time when life was a lot simpler and if you wanted something done you did it yourself. I love the technology now days but many other areas of society (in my opinion) have declined greatly. As I said I will let the dealer make the minor changes.

 

Been an interesting discussion so far and I appreciate all the input.