NO paddle shifters on the 2019 Edge FWD... WHAT??

[Crooner7]

15 hours ago, omar302 said:

 

Was your 2013 a V6? If so, that would, in my opinion, be the main reason. The smaller engine, 2.0L, is just not big enough to brake the vehicle as good as the bigger V6. My 2016 Sport (with a 2.7L V6, has selectshift, but just cannot "Engine brake" as good as my previous 2011 MKX with the 3.7L V6. Engine braking works by operating the engine an pump, having turbo(s) to increase engine power will not have any effect on engine braking. So even though the downsized "Turbo" engines make more power, they have less engine braking capability.

 

 

That is the silliest thing I have ever heard   The size of the engine has nothing to do with engine braking   Give me a break  

Edited August 29, 2019 by akirby

[akirby]

3 hours ago, David Dewhurst said:

akirby, sorry, suggesting upgrading to a costlier model is Ford Motor Company type thinking.

 

I'm merely telling you that those are your options.  If that type of feature is important to you then you can get it.  If you don't want to upgrade then go buy something else.   That's simply reality and those are the choices Ford has given you at this point.   Take it or leave it.

 

As I tried to state above they did this for cost cutting, period.  There is no technical reason why the cheaper models can't have paddles.  You can bitch and complain about it (which will get you nowhere) or you can accept it and either get one that has it or buy something else.  Those are the choices Ford is giving you.

 

There is a chance that you could simply add the paddles if the wiring is there and they would work.   We did this on the first ever selectshift Ford vehicle - the 2000 Lincoln LS.   Just swapped out the shifter.  But that depends on whether they left out other things in addition to the paddles.  Somebody give it a shot and let's see.

 

BTW I agree that the paddles should be standard.   But they're not so I'm just trying to explain why and get you to understand your limited options.

[omar302]

2 hours ago, Crooner7 said:

That is the silliest thing I have ever heard   The size of the engine has nothing to do with engine braking   Give me a break  

 

This is really mature. Thanks for your response.

[akirby]

3 hours ago, Crooner7 said:

 

That is the silliest thing I have ever heard   The size of the engine has nothing to do with engine braking   Give me a break  

 

Are you sure about that?   So you're saying it's just as easy to kickstart a 1000cc motorcycle as a 250cc?

[handfiler]

4 hours ago, Crooner7 said:

 

That is the silliest thing I have ever heard   The size of the engine has nothing to do with engine braking   Give me a break  

 

This is the silliest comment I've ever seen.........on this forum. ?

[Crooner7]

Which shows how much you know.  Just when I think I have seen the ultimate cretin, someone tops it.  ?

[David Dewhurst]

On 7/2/2019 at 5:31 AM, Crooner7 said:

My wife purchased her 2019 Edge FWD and her mind was set, so I basically went along for the ride since it was her car.

 

The inability to hold that car back on steep grades without riding the brakes is a safety issue in my book and I have notified the NHTSA.

 

I tried to contact Ford but was unable to speak with anyone who could speak English understandably.  Unbelievable.  

Inept engineering Ford!!!

Crooner7, what were your exact words during your communication with NHTSA?

 

My next communication will be with Ford by phone (not customer service) and written. From my sad Ford customer service phone feedback I'll use the number of William Clay Ford 313-322-3000 and wford@ford.com. It likely will be sidetracked, but do expert someone better than Ford customer service.
 

When this contacting Ford fails to obtain a valid customer response which I expect, I'll then contact NHTSA therefore I'd like to know your exact words communicated with HNSTA.

 

To site readers I really could care less if it's 1 vehicle in 1 million with the issue or if it's 50% of 1 million with the issue. I'm totally aware of actuarial risk analysis.         

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by David Dewhurst

[Perblue]

There are numerous vehicles with minimal gear selection and no paddle shifters, including electric vehicles that don't have a transmission, your complaint is going to go no where.

[David Dewhurst]

Perblue, this post is not to argue, it's only looking at real facts. If you read my posts from the get-go, you'd have a better understanding of what my reference is. The Ford Owners Manual clearly indicates under Edge SelectShift/paddleShift to down shift in hilly/mountains conditions because the brake system will overheat (read between the lines, SAFETY issue).  The Ford Owners Manual clearly indicates under Edge non SelectShift/PaddleShift to down shift in hilly/mountains conditions. First there is no way/place to down shift. Second they do not pass on the warning that the brake system will over heat (same SAFETY issue). 

[Waldo]

2 hours ago, David Dewhurst said:

Perblue, this post is not to argue, it's only looking at real facts. If you read my posts from the get-go, you'd have a better understanding of what my reference is. The Ford Owners Manual clearly indicates under Edge SelectShift/paddleShift to down shift in hilly/mountains conditions because the brake system will overheat (read between the lines, SAFETY issue).  The Ford Owners Manual clearly indicates under Edge non SelectShift/PaddleShift to down shift in hilly/mountains conditions. First there is no way/place to down shift. Second they do not pass on the warning that the brake system will over heat (same SAFETY issue). 

 

I'm not seeing any of that in the owner's manuals I can find online.  Can you specify a page number?  Only thing I can find is in the section on AWD under "Driving on Hilly or Sloping Terrain" where it says "Descend a hill in the same gear you would use to climb up the hill to avoid excessive brake application and brake overheating".  But this is clearly referring to an off-road scenario, not the highway driving you are talking about.

[todd92]

I find this thread laughable.  The reference to brakes overheating is clearly in the off-roading section of the manual.  Not being able to manually shift an automatic transmission is not a safety issue and will not be addressed by the NHTSA.  Furthermore, all literature regarding the Edge clearly states that SelectShift is only available with AWD, so if this feature was so important to you, it was available simply by getting one with AWD.  As for the cruise control holding speed down grades, the adaptive cruise control holds the speed perfectly...by applying the brakes, not downshifting.

 

An Edge is not a tractor trailer, you don't need to downshift going down long grades, the brakes aren't going to overheat.  I suppose you now keep a watchful eye out for runaway truck ramps, just in case?  ?

Edited September 4, 2019 by todd92

[David Dewhurst]

Waldo, rather than page numbers from the Owners Manual I'll post address of the words from Owners Manual.

Cruise Control/Principle of Operation

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?bookCode=O41026&countryCode=USA&languageCode=en&marketCode=US&viewTech=IE&chapterTitleSelected=G1676149&subTitleSelected=G1676150&topicHRef=G1448594&div=f&variantid=6275&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA

 

Using Cruise Control (non Adaptive Cruise Control)

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?bookCode=O41026&countryCode=USA&languageCode=en&marketCode=US&viewTech=IE&chapterTitleSelected=G1676149&subTitleSelected=G1953076&topicHRef=G1949135&div=f&variantid=6275&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA

 

Using Adaptive Cruise Control (Scroll down to Hilly Conditions)

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?bookCode=O41026&countryCode=USA&languageCode=en&marketCode=US&viewTech=IE&chapterTitleSelected=G1676149&subTitleSelected=G2011260&topicHRef=G2011261&div=f&variantid=6275&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA

 

My SAFETY issue is, if when using Adaptive Cruise Control, the suggestion is to downshift to a lower gear (engine braking) when traveling downhill in mountainous conditions to keep from overheating the brake system (Some of us know this means overheating the brakes is a SAFETY issue and so does Ford Motor Company), why does the same condition not exist for the non Adaptive Cruise Control. With the non Adaptive Cruise control the same suggestion is made to shift to a lower gear (engine braking), EXCEPT there is no lower gear to shift to. Point being Adaptive Cruise Control or non Adaptive Cruise Control, in mountainous conditions without downshifting (engine braking) the brake system will overheat.

 

For the benefit of todd92 my 2013 Ford Edge SE with non Adaptive Cruise Control downshifted using engine braking in mountainous conditions. todd92, I also challenge you to show me where the information I posted above from the Owners Manual indicates off-roading.  

Edited September 4, 2019 by David Dewhurst

[todd92]

I find this thread laughable.  The reference to brakes overheating is clearly in the off-roading section of the manual.  Not being able to manually shift an automatic transmission is not a safety issue and will not be addressed by the NHTSA.  Furthermore, all literature regarding the Edge clearly states that SelectShift is only available with AWD, so if this feature was so important to you, it was available simply by getting one with AWD.  As for the cruise control holding speed down grades, the adaptive cruise control holds the speed perfectly...by applying the brakes, not downshifting.

 

An Edge is not a tractor trailer, you do need to downshift going down long grades, the brakes aren't going to overheat.  I suppose you now keep a watchful eye out for runaway track ramps, just in case?  ?

[todd92]

As the Cap'n said in Cool Hand Luke, "Some men, you just can't reach".

[Waldo]

22 hours ago, David Dewhurst said:

My SAFETY issue is, if when using Adaptive Cruise Control, the suggestion is to downshift to a lower gear (engine braking) when traveling downhill in mountainous conditions to keep from overheating the brake system (Some of us know this means overheating the brakes is a SAFETY issue and so does Ford Motor Company), why does the same condition not exist for the non Adaptive Cruise Control. With the non Adaptive Cruise control the same suggestion is made to shift to a lower gear (engine braking), EXCEPT there is no lower gear to shift to. Point being Adaptive Cruise Control or non Adaptive Cruise Control, in mountainous conditions without downshifting (engine braking) the brake system will overheat.

 

For the benefit of todd92 my 2013 Ford Edge SE with non Adaptive Cruise Control downshifted using engine braking in mountainous conditions. todd92, I also challenge you to show me where the information I posted above from the Owners Manual indicates off-roading.  

 

First of all, the Adaptive Cruise section in the owner's manual is written by the Adaptive Cruise team, it's likely not even reviewed by the brakes team or the transmission team.  It's a generic block of text that's used in all Ford/Lincoln vehicles.

Secondly, driving with the Adaptive Cruise is different than driving without it.  The "brakes" overheating isn't the actual rotors and pads, it's the servos in the HCU that overheat from duty cycles.  The servos that are not used when you are activating the pedal with your foot.  One time I was driving a new Expedition across the border into Canada.  It was a long line, but I was able to use the adaptive cruise to keep it inching along.  After about 15 minutes, the Cruise quit because the servos had overheated, even though I hadn't been driving more than about 3mph the entire time.

 

Thirdly, the non-Adaptive Cruise recommendation to downshift is simply because if you used the brakes, you would cancel the cruise control.  The cruise control system has no other method of slowing the vehicle down (too many people complained when Ford used to allow the cruise to downshift on hills, so that feature was removed).  Has nothing to do with safety or brake overheating.

 

So while I can sympathize with the missing grade assist controls, it is at most an inconvenience, it is not a SAFETY issue.  The brakes in the Edge are sized sufficiently that they won't overheat if you drive properly in mountainous conditions.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Waldo

[David Dewhurst]

As Harry said, "make my day". I'll duplicate my post as you did yours, please read and respond to the question I asked you. 

" todd92, I also challenge you to show me where the information I posted above from the Owners Manual indicates off-roading. "

 

 

[akirby]

3 minutes ago, David Dewhurst said:

As Harry said, "make my day". I'll duplicate my post as you did yours, please read and respond to the question I asked you. 

" todd92, I also challenge you to show me where the information I posted above from the Owners Manual indicates off-roading. "

 

That's really not necessary to keep up this back and forth arguing.   Waldo summed it up:

 

4 minutes ago, Waldo said:

So while I can sympathize with the missing grade assist controls, it is at most an inconvenience, it is not a SAFETY issue.

 

It sucks but it's not a safety issue and you bought it without doing due diligence.   Either live with it or trade it.

[David Dewhurst]

Crooner7, please come back, there's surly a generation gap within this thread.

Moderator akirby, on a couple car road racing sites (I race a car) I belong to technical communications are ongoing without moderators interference. On this site when one challenges a members post nonsense the moderator steps in. If you or todd92 believe when Ford talks about brakes overheating their talking about servos overheating, it's FAKE NEWS.

[akirby]

38 minutes ago, David Dewhurst said:

Crooner7, please come back, there's surly a generation gap within this thread.

Moderator akirby, on a couple car road racing sites (I race a car) I belong to technical communications are ongoing without moderators interference. On this site when one challenges a members post nonsense the moderator steps in. If you or todd92 believe when Ford talks about brakes overheating their talking about servos overheating, it's FAKE NEWS.

 

I don't care whether the servos are overheating or the brakes are overheating or what it says in the manual.  None of that changes the fact that you didn't do your due diligence and bought the wrong vehicle (for you) and now you're trying to turn it into a NHTSA safety issue which is ridiculous.

[Waldo]

Then why wouldn't Ford put something in the Owner's manual in the BRAKES or TRANSMISSION section?  As I stated above, Adaptive Cruise uses the brakes differently then when you are driving using the brake pedal.  It relies on the brakes operating in the linear range of friction and is designed to shut down well before there is a SAFETY issue.  Please don't start calling out "FAKE NEWS" about systems of which you do not understand.

The Owner's manual does not say anywhere in it that the brakes will overheat when driving in mountainous terrain while driving normally.  Trying to extract one statement and apply it to other scenarios is how FAKE NEWS is created.

The Edge meets all FMVSS requirements for both brake and transmission systems, so if you have a problem with this, you need to challenge their requirements, not complain about Ford.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Waldo

[David Dewhurst]

akirby, when you procure a car/SUV with non adaptive cruise control, what are your functional expectations of the non adaptive cruise control? 

[David Dewhurst]

Waldo, this would be the information, you say is not within the Ford Edge owners manual.  Must be you didn't read the previously posted information from the Ford Edge owners manual as per below.

 

Using Adaptive Cruise Control (Scroll down to Hilly Conditions)

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?bookCode=O41026&countryCode=USA&languageCode=en&marketCode=US&viewTech=IE&chapterTitleSelected=G1676149&subTitleSelected=G2011260&topicHRef=G2011261&div=f&variantid=6275&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA

 

Waldo, to make your life simpler, posted below is an excerpt from the Ford Edge owners manual.      

 

Hilly Condition Usage

You should select a lower gear when the system is active in situations such as prolonged downhill driving on steep grades, for example in mountainous areas. The system needs additional engine braking in these situations to reduce the load on the vehicle’s regular brake system to prevent it from overheating.

 

[akirby]

32 minutes ago, David Dewhurst said:

akirby, when you procure a car/SUV with non adaptive cruise control, what are your functional expectations of the non adaptive cruise control? 

 

My F150 has non adaptive cruise control.  I expect to be able to set a speed, resume a speed, increase and decrease the set speed and turn it on and off.

 

If my F150 did not come with selectshift I would not assume I could manually select and hold a lower gear.

[akirby]

21 minutes ago, David Dewhurst said:

Waldo, to make your life simpler, posted below is an excerpt from the Ford Edge owners manual.      

 

Hilly Condition Usage

You should select a lower gear when the system is active in situations such as prolonged downhill driving on steep grades, for example in mountainous areas. The system needs additional engine braking in these situations to reduce the load on the vehicle’s regular brake system to prevent it from overheating.

 

 

That was written assuming all Edges had selectshift transmissions.   They didn't update the manual when they took out that option.   All they needed to do is add (if equipped), which wouldn't change anything in this argument.

 

None of that negates the fact that you chose to purchase a vehicle without selectshift.  If you're forced to ride the brakes for extended periods you should use common sense and stop and let the brakes cool off.   Some areas have enforcement officers that check your brakes with an IR gun and will force you to let them cool off. 

 

NHTSA doesn't care because it's not a safety issue.  Ford doesn't care because they never said that selectshift was included on FWD vehicles.  

 

Deal with it or trade it.  Those are your choices.   Continuing to whine about it will get you nowhere.

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, David Dewhurst said:

Waldo, this would be the information, you say is not within the Ford Edge owners manual.  Must be you didn't read the previously posted information from the Ford Edge owners manual as per below.

 

Using Adaptive Cruise Control (Scroll down to Hilly Conditions)

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?bookCode=O41026&countryCode=USA&languageCode=en&marketCode=US&viewTech=IE&chapterTitleSelected=G1676149&subTitleSelected=G2011260&topicHRef=G2011261&div=f&variantid=6275&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA

 

Waldo, to make your life simpler, posted below is an excerpt from the Ford Edge owners manual.      

 

Hilly Condition Usage

You should select a lower gear when the system is active in situations such as prolonged downhill driving on steep grades, for example in mountainous areas. The system needs additional engine braking in these situations to reduce the load on the vehicle’s regular brake system to prevent it from overheating.

 

 

You're still missing my point.  This is in the ADAPTIVE CRUISE section.  It is not in the BRAKES section or the TRANSMISSION section, because when your vehicle is going down a hill with Adaptive Cruise on, it is using the brakes DIFFERENTLY than when you are driving manually.  The brake overheating it's referring to will result in a loss of Adaptive Cruise control, not a loss of braking as you are thinking of it.  As I mentioned in my example above, I had the Adaptive Cruise control disengage on me in a similar situation even though the actual brakes were stone-cold and I was going 3mph.  In other words, if you don't use Adaptive Cruise, your brake system won't overheat.