Further North Posted March 20, 2018 Report Share Posted March 20, 2018 I currently tow my '05 Crestliner 1850 CMV with a 2014 Escape with the 2.0L and a towing package. No problems, ever. I don't want to get into a debate about whether or not the Escape is "big enough"...it is, not open for discussion... What I am wondering is if I add a hitch to our 2017 Edge Titanium, will I have similar towing capacity? It looks like the Edge with the 2.0L is limited to 1,500 lbs without the tow package. I am not even remotely inclined to push towing capacity, not worth it, ever. Secondary question: Can the tow package be retrofitted to an edge that does not have it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further North Posted March 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 Bump.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 Adding the hitch doesn’t change the tow rating. It’s usually the transmission cooler that’s the biggest difference but other components are usually beefed up as well with the factory tow package. How much weight are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further North Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 The boat maxes out at about 2,800 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 The normal base tow rating on the Edge 3.5 has always been 2K lbs. The fact that they lowered it to 1500 with the 2.0L would be a big concern. You’re almost double the recommended weight. I wouldn’t do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further North Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 The rating is not tied to the 2.0L, it is tied to the OEM tow package. The tow rating for my '14 Escape is 3,500 lbs. with the original 2.0L and the OEM tow package, I have thousands of miles towing the boat with that vehicle, no issues. The '17 Edge with the tow package is also 3,500 lbs., what I am trying to figure out, and can't seem to get an answer to is: What, exactly, is the tow package, and can it it be retrofitted to the Edge. If someone had a parts list if there is anything beyond the hitch, wiring and cutting the bumper, that'd be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 You missed the point. If the non tow pkg 2.0L is rated lower than the non tow pkg 3.5L or 2.7L then you have to ask why. It’s probably not the engine but it could be the transmission. Perhaps they use the 6F50 with the 2.0L tow package? I don’t know that for sure just giving an example. Typically they add oil and tranny coolers but I haven’t seen anything specific for the 2017 2.0L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further North Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Not missing the point at all. Same transmission with the tow package, no oil or transmission coolers either...at least that I can find anywhere...that's what I'm looking for one way or the other. Rather than assume, I want to know. Escapes are the same way. I've gone over my Escape with a tow package and one without...no difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 The attached image shows the difference in the grille reinforcement for the 2011-2015 Lincoln MKX differs based on the Tow Package availability. You can see how with the Tow Package the reinforcement has 5 slots for air flow to the radiator per side, while without the Tow Package it only has 3 per side. This was not mentioned in any Tow Guide as a difference. I mean to show this as an example of changes that are not apparent between vehicles factory equipped with Tow Packages compared to those without the Tow Package. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 They would not lower the rating from 2000 lbs to 1500 without a good reason. Unless you can figure out that reason, you’re taking a big risk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr061 Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Published specs for trailer tow: https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/17RV&TT_Ford_Edge_Sep7.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Well there you go. Frontal area for cooling, radiator and fans (at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further North Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 The attached image shows the difference in the grille reinforcement for the 2011-2015 Lincoln MKX differs based on the Tow Package availability. You can see how with the Tow Package the reinforcement has 5 slots for air flow to the radiator per side, while without the Tow Package it only has 3 per side. This was not mentioned in any Tow Guide as a difference. I mean to show this as an example of changes that are not apparent between vehicles factory equipped with Tow Packages compared to those without the Tow Package. MKX with & without Tow Package.jpg Thanks, I will ask about that. Published specs for trailer tow: https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/17RV&TT_Ford_Edge_Sep7.pdf Well there you go. Frontal area for cooling, radiator and fans (at least). I saw that, and am well below the frontal area limits. They would not lower the rating from 2000 lbs to 1500 without a good reason. Unless you can figure out that reason, you’re taking a big risk. Thanks...that's what I'm working on. I've never been any good at accepting that as an answer though..."because they said so" without understanding why just doesn't work in my life. Never has, never will. The cynical part of me wonders if it's not lawyers trying to reduce risk (that's their job) by finding ways to exclude potential repairs. Funny thing is...they've no way to prove how much weight gets towed...so the only risk reduction is if something bad happens, there's a slim chance they can try to shield themselves from liability... ********************* Anyway, more pondering: The tow package is $485...that includes the hitch and wiring...there's not enough left over for other mechanical parts like additional coolers. Things like that different grill reinforcement are interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr061 Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Anyway, more pondering: The tow package is $485...that includes the hitch and wiring...there's not enough left over for other mechanical parts like additional coolers. Things like that different grill reinforcement are interesting. This thinking carries not weight...for instance I often get asked if SYNC can be added to police interceptor models that were purchased without it. The sticker price for adding SYNC is $295 or so last I checked. I tell people it can't be added for the main reason that the entire vehicle dash has to be removed and harnesses replaced. I looked into the parts needed to upgrade once, it was well over $1000 price range but yet its only $295 if you order it with it. This includes things that have to be replaced and hardware that has to be added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further North Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 This thinking carries not weight...for instance I often get asked if SYNC can be added to police interceptor models that were purchased without it. The sticker price for adding SYNC is $295 or so last I checked. I tell people it can't be added for the main reason that the entire vehicle dash has to be removed and harnesses replaced. I looked into the parts needed to upgrade once, it was well over $1000 price range but yet its only $295 if you order it with it. This includes things that have to be replaced and hardware that has to be added. There's no way for you have known this, but I've been in manufacturing for 35 years and am well aware of how cost structuring works and that swapping in a part with a similar cost here and there might not add up to much in terms of labor. ...but we're not talking about wiring and swapping cheap parts like the grill reinforcement...talking about more expensive mechanical parts like oil and transmission coolers, the hoses to feed them and the time that'd take to install. Time isn't much, on a modern line, but parts is parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 I saw that, and am well below the frontal area limits. Not the frontal area of what you’re towing, the frontal area of the vehicle that’s available to feed the cooling system. Reference the grille reinforcement that Omar posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr061 Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) You probably aren't aware of this but I have access to the Ford service guides for all vehicles. The 17 Edge 2.0 does have a transmission cooler for the trailer tow package which the non tow doesn't have. The 14 Escape shows all 2.0's have a transmission cooler that has a valve that appears to bypass it to allow the transmission to warm up faster and then open to utilize the cooler. Edit - Just looked up the pricing for the trans cooler parts .... retail of 289.45. Edited March 25, 2018 by jmr061 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 the bypass valve is pretty much a standard feature with all 6F transmissions AFAIK, but the smaller EB engines often have additional/weird componentry in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further North Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 You probably aren't aware of this but I have access to the Ford service guides for all vehicles. The 17 Edge 2.0 does have a transmission cooler for the trailer tow package which the non tow doesn't have. The 14 Escape shows all 2.0's have a transmission cooler that has a valve that appears to bypass it to allow the transmission to warm up faster and then open to utilize the cooler. Edit - Just looked up the pricing for the trans cooler parts .... retail of 289.45. Cool, thanks - that's the kind of info I'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further North Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Not the frontal area of what you’re towing, the frontal area of the vehicle that’s available to feed the cooling system. Reference the grille reinforcement that Omar posted. Got it, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further North Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Not the frontal area of what you’re towing, the frontal area of the vehicle that’s available to feed the cooling system. Reference the grille reinforcement that Omar posted. So I went back and looked at the front of our '17 Edge...and measured some stuff...and thought about this... 30 sq. ft. is 10 ft. x 3 ft. ...or using simple sq. root...5.477' x 5.477'. No way the cooling area of a '17 Ford Edge even approaches that...on its best day... The grill is...at best...if it were a rectangle...and it's not...42" x 12" = 504 sq. inches = 3 1/2 sq. ft. There's no way that 3.5 sq. ft. grill is reaching out to almost 8.6x its size to grab air...clip out the angles at the corners, and I doubt ot's 3.0 sq. ft...might be close...but not important... What am I missing? Edited March 27, 2018 by Further North Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 I believe the frontal area is for the trailer, not the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 The towing guide frontal area is just the size of the vehicle and trailer front together. It measures how much wind resistance you can withstand. I should not have used that term. I was simply referring to the amount of air made available to the cooling system - it’s different with and without the tow package as evidenced by the different grille reinforcements. Simply put the tow package allows more air into the larger radiator and fans. If not then the larger radiator and fans wouldn’t do any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 akirby, the Grille reinforcements I posted were only for the MKX. The Edge (2011-2014) have only 1 part number, so it would seem they are the same whether Tow Package equipped or not. But your point still stands that there might be more to a factory Tow Package than what is listed in the Towing Guide and it is not a simple difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Oh ok. But that’s the real issue - you really don’t know for sure what other changes were made. They must have lowered the tow rating to 1500 for the 2.0L due to cooling, so maybe the larger fans and radiator would suffice. Not sure I’d be willing to take that gamble though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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