LED Lights

[whaleshark]

Hi All, - I am new and not a technician and I need some help. I have a 2011 EDGE LTD with 'Projector' Halogen headlamps. We've had it since new and I have never really been impressed with the brightness of the beams especially up here in Canada where the roads are very dark with poor road markings.

 

Anyway, I have purchased a set of PUTCO SILVER LUX PRO LED's which after some fiddling, I have installed in the Edge. (See link below)

 

(

 

They are much brighter but I am having some difficulty in 'CLOCKING' them. Putco customer service have been very good in helping out but I don't have a definitive answer as to whether the LED should point DOWN or UP for maximum effectiveness. The advice is basically to try both but this is very intricate.

 

If you look at the link to the PUTCO site above you will see that the LED is mounted on a 'Platform' so there may be a degree of light blocking

 

So, I am wondering if anyone out there has an opinion on this ? LED UP or LED DOWN ? ---

 

Thanks for any assistance

 

Mike

So, I am wondering if anyone out there has an opinion on this ? LED UP or LED DOWN ? ---

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Not sure the orientation makes a difference in projector headlamps per a recent discussion. I know for a fact it does in REFLECTOR headlamps, and the difference can be quite annoying

[whaleshark]

Hi,

 

PUTCO seems to think that the orientation does make a difference, maybe only a little difference. They do say that bulbs come clocked for typical operations. So any adjustment will be sort of a 'Fine Tuning' type of thing. I think in the absence of positive responses, I may well have to fiddle around and try both positions. If the LED did not have the 'mounting platform' and was exposed like a normal filament/glass lamp then I can see that alignment would not be a factor. But it's that darned mounting platform and any 'shadow effect' that bugs me. But I do value all opinions and I am open to suggestions. Thanks Mike

[Nick Halstead]

Hi All, - I am new and not a technician and I need some help. I have a 2011 EDGE LTD with 'Projector' Halogen headlamps. We've had it since new and I have never really been impressed with the brightness of the beams especially up here in Canada where the roads are very dark with poor road markings.

 

Anyway, I have purchased a set of PUTCO SILVER LUX PRO LED's which after some fiddling, I have installed in the Edge. (See link below)

 

(

 

They are much brighter but I am having some difficulty in 'CLOCKING' them. Putco customer service have been very good in helping out but I don't have a definitive answer as to whether the LED should point DOWN or UP for maximum effectiveness. The advice is basically to try both but this is very intricate.

 

If you look at the link to the PUTCO site above you will see that the LED is mounted on a 'Platform' so there may be a degree of light blocking

 

So, I am wondering if anyone out there has an opinion on this ? LED UP or LED DOWN ? ---

 

Thanks for any assistance

 

Mike

So, I am wondering if anyone out there has an opinion on this ? LED UP or LED DOWN ? ---

They are brighter, they generate more foreground light, which makes you think they are brighter. There is a very good reason no manufacturer of any automobile on this planet uses a LED Headlight bulb. The halogens you had in had more usable light. Brighter does not mean better. If it did we would all have flood lights mounted. to properly align your lights, you need to be 25ft from a solid wall and your lights should look like the pic below, but they will not look like that since you are running the wrong bulb

[TheWizard]

In general, you want the LEDs to point to the sides of the projector tube rather than top and bottom. But I've never used a bulb that has only one LED rather than having at least a pair of them on opposite sides of the support so I'm not sure which way they would work best. It seems to me that you won't get a good pattern with them no matter which way they're oriented. Even with so-called 180 degree beam angle (actually no more than 178 degree since an LED can't emit from its edges), you're still only producing light to half of the elliptical reflector in the projector lamp so the beam pattern will suffer somewhere. Aligning the LED toward the top would cause the reflected light to be traveling downward causing that common LED problem of too much foreground light and not enough distance. Aligning the LED facing the bottom would cause the opposite - too much light higher up causing glare for other drivers.

[1004ron]

There is a very good reason no manufacturer of any automobile on this planet uses a LED Headlight bulb.

There is a few and it looks like they're getting started.

 

https://www.autobytel.com/car-buying-guides/features/10-cars-with-led-lights-that-outshine-the-competition-130697/

[TheWizard]

What Nick was referring to is although there are plenty of manufacturers who have LED headlights, all of them are custom designed assemblies and none use plug-and-play bulbs (like H9, 9012, etc.).

Edited January 5, 2018 by TheWizard

[akirby]

There is a few and it looks like they're getting started.

 

https://www.autobytel.com/car-buying-guides/features/10-cars-with-led-lights-that-outshine-the-competition-130697/

But those arent using LED bulbs. Theyre using custom designed LED systems.

 

Oops - TheWizard beat me to it. Sorry.

Edited January 5, 2018 by akirby

[Nick Halstead]

There is a few and it looks like they're getting started.

 

https://www.autobytel.com/car-buying-guides/features/10-cars-with-led-lights-that-outshine-the-competition-130697/

I will wait for you to find me replacement bulbs for those headlights...

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

The IIHS ratings for the OEM LED lighting systems are pretty dismal for the most part. I think it was the Prius (?) that got a great rating.

[1004ron]

What Nick was referring to is although there are plenty of manufacturers who have LED headlights, all of them are custom designed assemblies and none use plug-and-play bulbs (like H9, 9012, etc.).

Yeah, I didn't focus on the key word "bulb".

[TheWizard]

 

Usually is Plug and Play type, easy to install.My car use for a long time,here's a reputable light ,Novsight:

https://www.novsights.com/

 

 

Sorry but I would never trust a site that sells LED bulbs that they claim produce 16,000 or 12,000 lumens... many times what reputable sites sell (V-LEDs sells bulbs that produce 4,500 lumens peak or about 3,000 lumens in normal operation). Novsight's numbers are more than most aircraft landing lights produce so they are obviously fudging the numbers to make sales.

[whaleshark]

Thank you all for your responses , negative and positive. The pros and cons of LED systems are interesting (to a layman like myself) to say the least. Either way, for and against, I have what I have and to me, they are better that the originals. I should add that the ( PUTCO SILVER LUX PRO LED's --- Look them up on the PUTCO website) are 'custom made' and pretty darned expensive and not bought from a questionable source...... In fact, their construction is very similar to the NOVSIGHT that one of the other responders mentioned. You guys who live in well lit areas or towns don't have the super dark, deer laden roads that we do so bright lights are an absolute. So, with all your suggestions, I'm pretty sure I've got the alignments correct. Thanks again.....

[Nick Halstead]

Thank you all for your responses , negative and positive. The pros and cons of LED systems are interesting (to a layman like myself) to say the least. Either way, for and against, I have what I have and to me, they are better that the originals. I should add that the ( PUTCO SILVER LUX PRO LED's --- Look them up on the PUTCO website) are 'custom made' and pretty darned expensive and not bought from a questionable source...... In fact, their construction is very similar to the NOVSIGHT that one of the other responders mentioned. You guys who live in well lit areas or towns don't have the super dark, deer laden roads that we do so bright lights are an absolute. So, with all your suggestions, I'm pretty sure I've got the alignments correct. Thanks again.....

 

expensive does not equal better (sylvania silverstars/zxe as a prime example). Plug in LEDs are a piece of crap, and put more light into oncoming traffics eyes than oncoming traffic deserves. I'd rather use two oil wick lanterns and walk than blind the rest of my fellow drivers and have shitty lighting

Edited January 5, 2018 by Nick Halstead

[TheWizard]

I've heard many complaints about LED headlights bulbs but blinding oncoming traffic is not one of them - at least not when used in projector style lamps. Too much foreground light, not enough distance, or simply not enough light are common issues but the design of a projector lamp really prevents any significant blinding output.

 

 

The reason for blinding glare is the incorrect position of the light source within the lamp. On a parabolic reflector lamp, even a slight change in position or orientation of the light source can cause significant misalignment of the output beam. But with the elliptical reflector at the back of a projector lamp, the orientation of the light source makes almost no difference and the position (closer to the reflector or farther away) merely moves the focal point forward or back. Changing the focal point so that it is farther ahead of the shutter will actually reduce the upper level light, eliminating glare for others and increasing foreground light while reducing total light output. This is the common situation with cheap LED bulbs because they have a long center support structure that aids in cooling but moves the light source farther into the lamp than the original halogen filament. It is also the reason that HID capsules in halogen projectors sometimes create more glare - the total length of the capsule is greater than a bulb but the arc itself is positioned closer to the base causing the focal point to be before the shutter and increasing upper light output. Even there, the upper light is diffused and restricted by the front lens. Some light is desirable above the cutoff to illuminate road signs but not enough to cause a problem for oncoming traffic (that's why the graphic shows that light as a gray line).

 

Basically, if you can get an LED bulb (or HID capsule) which has its light source in the same position as it would be in the equivalent halogen bulb then there's no reason why it wouldn't work just as well as or better than the original bulb.

Edited January 5, 2018 by TheWizard

[blockisle9]

to properly align your lights, you need to be 25ft from a solid wall and your lights should look like the pic below, but they will not look like that since you are running the wrong bulb

It looks like the left and possibly the right (hard to tell in the pic) the light seems to cut off lower than the center.

[candurin]

The left should run lower as it keeps the drivers side headlight directly out of of the field of vision of oncoming traffic.

[TheWizard]

The left should run lower as it keeps the drivers side headlight directly out of of the field of vision of oncoming traffic.

 

This would be reversed, of course, in countries where they drive on the left - the right side of the beam cutoff would be lower where oncoming traffic is approaching on the right.

[candurin]

Of course. I may have incorrectly assumed (the saying is true) that a majority of the forum is comprised of members from the US and Canada.

 

Oddly enough, when Im driving in Ireland (Im there 6-8 times per year on business), I dont think about my headlight patterns. Naturally, I will now.

[TheWizard]

You're right, I'm sure the majority are in North America... I was just pointing out some trivia because of some research I had been doing on European lighting standards versus US standards. For example, headlights in Europe which put out more than a specified amount of light (generally HIDs) must have an automatic leveling system that helps reduce glare as the vehicle moves up and down over irregularities in the road. Such systems are allowed but not required in the US.

[candurin]

Ha... Last night driving home, a Toyota with purple HID bulbs drove over the speed bump in the mall as my wife and I were leaving.

 

Her exact words "ooh they look pretty on the car but does it bother your eyes too"?

 

She's working on it.

[jpeckinp]

deleted

Edited January 29, 2018 by jpeckinp

[Mikula]

but I can't stand the yellowness of the lights.

I'm with you on this. I hate that they don't match the lights on the bumper. i'm assuming they'd need to be closer to a 6k color and not whatever they are now. drives me NUTS.

[enigma-2]

I'm with you on this. I hate that they don't match the lights on the bumper. i'm assuming they'd need to be closer to a 6k color and not whatever they are now. drives me NUTS.

Would you believe that you can actually "see" better with the yellow lights than those that run more bluish? Our eyes are most sentiment to yellow-green light and have very few rods sensitive to blue. It's only an illusion that you see better with white-blue light. Blue also causes the eye to focus differently than in normal light.

 

That said, I had a Japanese rental that had FANTASTIC HID lights. Hit the brights and ... daylight.

[Mikula]

Would you believe that you can actually "see" better with the yellow lights than those that run more bluish? Our eyes are most sentiment to yellow-green light and have very few rods sensitive to blue. It's only an illusion that you see better with white-blue light. Blue also causes the eye to focus differently than in normal light.

 

That said, I had a Japanese rental that had FANTASTIC HID lights. Hit the brights and ... daylight.

I could definitely believe that. I would actually prefer to have the "fog" lights more of a yellow tint than what they are. I know they aren't really for light output, which is why i wonder why they chose the light color that they did.