bpoling1230 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Alright, desperately seeking someone with some knowledge! I have a 2007 Ford Edge SEL V6 3.5L Ive had very few issues with this vehicle over the years. Saturday I took it to an oil change shop for a regular oil change when they told me my serpentine belt was cracked and needed replaced. Theyve told me this the last few times, so I figured I may as well go ahead and replace it. It takes them about 25 mins to finish everything up and Im on my way. I drove the car around 100 miles, and out of no where my heat stops working. Check under the hood and my antifreeze reservoir is bone dry. Take it back to the shop, where they tell me they forgot to fill the coolant, run it a few minutes the heat starts working, everything seems fine. I take it home and park it. Later that evening, I leave to run an errand and once again the heat isnt working and the reservoir is empty. And now a check engine light (crank position sensor) has come on. I refilled the reservoir once again, and decided to take it to a friend to have them look it over. On my way there, the car starts to overheat for the first time, I pull over give it about 20 minutes to cool down, add more antifreeze and go to start the car again with no success. The battery is dead. Nothing was running in the car while it was off with the exception of the hazard lights. After calling a tow and getting it parked we find antifreeze in the oil. I guess my question is, is there any way this is a connection to the serpentine belt that was replaced? And how. Or just a major coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpoling1230 Posted December 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Oh, and this all happened within 48 hours. Just to be clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigma-2 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Water pump failure common in the 3.5 L engines. It may have been was leaking for a while and you never noticed. The guys that change your oil never look, they just dump the oil in the catch container and wait for it the finish. The coolant pump is not driven off the serpentine belt so unlikely it's related. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Sorry to hear, bpoling, was the coolant flushed to date? Options now are to a) replace the water pump, or b] replace with a low-mileage engine, assuming you keep the Edge. The water pump can be replaced without removing the engine from the engine bay. A bit tight, but very doable. Edited December 21, 2017 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikula Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) water/antifreeze in the oil is almost always a head gasket. if they drained the antifreeze and didn't fill it then i'd say they are liable. if all they did was the belt, i don't see it being related. if it overheated it could have very well blown the head gasket. weird that you have no batter power though. almost like the alternator wasn't working either.. which is belt driven. slippage in the belt? like they put the wrong size on? strange series of events Edited December 22, 2017 by Mikula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1004ron Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 water/antifreeze in the oil is almost always a head gasket. if they drained the antifreeze and didn't fill it then i'd say they are liable. if all they did was the belt, i don't see it being related. if it overheated it could have very well blown the head gasket. weird that you have no batter power though. almost like the alternator wasn't working either.. which is belt driven. slippage in the belt? like they put the wrong size on? strange series of events True in most cases, but not with this engine. The Ford 3.5 Duratec has an internal water pump that upon failure may and can allow coolant to leak into the oil sump/pan filling it with coolant. This coolant mix into the oil decrease lubrication to the internal engine parts and subsequently complete engine failure. If hey forgot to put coolant in the engine, the coolant pump mechanical seal could be damaged. Why would they need to drain the coolant to replace the serpentine belt? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpoling1230 Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I feel like I remember watching them remove the coolant reservoir while they were changing the belt. But I cant know that for certain. I wasnt paying close attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpoling1230 Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) Sorry to hear, bpoling, was the coolant flushed to date? Options now are to a) replace the water pump, or b] replace with a low-mileage engine, assuming you keep the Edge. The water pump can be replaced without removing the engine from the engine bay. A bit tight, but very doable. Yes the coolant was flushed about 6 months ago Edited December 22, 2017 by bpoling1230 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikula Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 now THAT, is a weird setup. I'm sure it serves its purpose. damn those engineers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Just wait until the OP finds out this repair is $1500.... Complete junk design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinyin Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 you need to replace the water pump whenever you replace the serpentine belt and flush the coolant system. should also be changing the belt tensioner pulley while in there as well. it's partially the shops fault for selling you a service without completely finishing the job. oil change shops are bottom of the barrel in terms of skilled or trained technicians. never take your car to an oil change shop, and certainly never let them try to do a repair on it. you are just asking for trouble. always find a private mechanic at a reputable shop. preferably one who was once a Ford technician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 The water pump on the 3.5/3.7 is internal/driven by timing chain. VERY labor intensive to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 you need to replace the water pump whenever you replace the serpentine belt Never heard of this before! As stated above, the pump is not driven by the belt, why would it have to be replaced with the belt? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpoling1230 Posted December 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 Its most definitely the water pump. The serpentine belt had nothing to do with any of the issues that arose. It is a $1200 repair, due to the labor needed to do the job. Thanks for all the help! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 you need to replace the water pump whenever you replace the serpentine belt and flush the coolant system. should also be changing the belt tensioner pulley while in there as well. it's partially the shops fault for selling you a service without completely finishing the job. oil change shops are bottom of the barrel in terms of skilled or trained technicians. never take your car to an oil change shop, and certainly never let them try to do a repair on it. you are just asking for trouble. always find a private mechanic at a reputable shop. preferably one who was once a Ford technician. Internal water pump and as estimates go is about 1500-2000 dollar job. Thanks for the input though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2109 Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 We just went through the waterpump failure and replacement with our 3.5v6 edge. It's not a cheap or quick replacement or part of any scheduled maintenance. It seems that headgasket failures are not as common as the waterpump failures, you really won't know what you got until you get in there. I would check the waterpump before pulling off a head (and to remove a head they will get to the waterpump first) bpoling, let us know what happened in your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2109 Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 I guess my question is, is there any way this is a connection to the serpentine belt that was replaced? And how. Or just a major coincidence? Circling back to this question. It's possible that they removed the coolant tank to change the belt and maybe forgot to refill it. However, that would not have removed so much coolant that you would have overheated. Since the waterpump is timing chain driven and not serpentine belt driven it would not have been touched at all. And running with a defective or non-existent belt would not affect engine cooling directly like most engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpoling1230 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) We just went through the waterpump failure and replacement with our 3.5v6 edge. It's not a cheap or quick replacement or part of any scheduled maintenance. It seems that headgasket failures are not as common as the waterpump failures, you really won't know what you got until you get in there. I would check the waterpump before pulling off a head (and to remove a head they will get to the waterpump first) bpoling, let us know what happened in your case. It ended up just being the water pump, the head was fine as far as Im aware. I was quoted a $1200 repair because of the 12 hours of labor it would take to do the job. Once they really got in there and checked things out, my mechanic didnt feel confident simply replacing the water pump, due to the large amount of antifreeze throughout the motor. He also mentioned it looked like the water pump had been leaking for quite some time, but in any case, I ended up having the entire motor replaced. The swap cost me $2233 for a used motor and labor. And 2 weeks later I had to replace the battery as well. Which explains why it died during my initial breakdown. So it was just a build up of everything at once. Edited January 19, 2018 by bpoling1230 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 How many miles on the replacement engine? Did it come with any type of warranty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpoling1230 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 65k miles 90 day warranty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2109 Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 Glad you got it resolved, and at a reasonable cost too - considering what needed to happen. The local dealer quoted us $7500 for a used engine with 30 day warranty or $10k for the ford remanufactured route. I'd be totally confident with the used engine as you can easily put a new waterpump on it before its installed and it seems to be the weak point on these. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegeoguy Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 you need to replace the water pump whenever you replace the serpentine belt and flush the coolant system. should also be changing the belt tensioner pulley while in there as well. it's partially the shops fault for selling you a service without completely finishing the job. oil change shops are bottom of the barrel in terms of skilled or trained technicians. never take your car to an oil change shop, and certainly never let them try to do a repair on it. you are just asking for trouble. always find a private mechanic at a reputable shop. preferably one who was once a Ford technician. Yeah no.......the water pump is internal to the engine, have to remove the pulleys, front cover, and timing chains to get the water pump out. A couple grand to have it done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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