jlkansascity Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I can take a picture if needed. I have the 3.7l, so the exhaust could be different, but I still had room to work around it. Picture this: Laying on your back looking up at the drain plug. You can place the handle of the ratchet facing towards the front of car, while positioning the 3/8" head of the wrench so it slides in to the drain plug. It should only be torqued to 25-30ft/lbs, so it should loosen fairly easy. When looking at the PTU, and drain plug, there was a sub frame in between my body and the PTU. I was able to reach down (towards my legs) and around (above) the sub frame, with plenty of room to feed the drain hose. We have the 3.5 l engine. I did not pull the right wheel, or get any ratchet extension. I was able to pull the plug from the bottom/rear/passenger side by just snaking my arm up there. It gets easier with practice, and now that I've changed the oil about 6 times I can do it pretty easily. Make sure you wear gloves and a wore out shirt; this old oil/grease is impossible to get off of anything. Looks like I replied to the wrong post, I was trying to reply to the person asking what engine I had... Edited October 12, 2015 by jlkansascity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkansascity Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I would just like to address the fact that I wish this was around when I was having PTU issues when I lived in upstate NY just before I went overseas and moved my family back to MN while I was. We had a full vehicle and was towing a 70 bug on a trailer as well. There was no way that I was going to make it if I didn't get something fixed. I spent almost $800 and had everything changed from the rear to the front, flushed and filled. The dealership I was working with treated me real well and explained everything to me while I was in the shop with the car on the lift pointing out the issues with the PTU. They changed out the fluid after flushing it out several times due to the thickness in it and it was like a new car. This fluid service happened with 165,000 miles on the car and we now have 184,000 miles on it currently with it still running like a top. Only thing I have had to do to the car is the bearings all the way around as far as any major issues is concerned, not including the massive safety recall Ford has with the fuel tank. Ford had my car for 3 weeks after finding out that my vehicle was one of the few that had a massive fuel leak coming through the top of the tank. They gave us a rental and paid for everything while the car was being worked on. We are now about to have the timing chain cover removed due to a pretty bad leak and was told it'll cost $1200 but it needs to be done. It's about that time for this kind of stuff to be start and is expected. We love this vehicle and it has been across the country several times now, more than I can count. Bought it in 2010 before I went to Afghanistan with 68K miles on it and drive it everywhere. Other than my 00 Ranger (11years) and 00 Expedition (6 years), this is the longest we have had a vehicle going on 5 years now and plan to drive the wheels off this thing. Excellent post everyone and looks like I'll be on here much more over time. By the way, the Edge pulled that loaded trailer 1,300 miles from Upstate NY to MN like a champ! Sounds like your dealer actually had some mechanics working there. Mine, at 141k miles, they flippantly told me the PTO unit had to be changed, $1600.00, and didn't seem to care if I was shocked or not. Then, their next sentence was the steering rack was also shot and would cost $1200.00 or something like that to fix. They wanted over 3k to fix these two items. I fixed the steering rack for about $400.00 and resolved the PTO issues with a series of frequent flushes on my own. Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkansascity Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I hope I don't have to do this again in another 40k! Unless you have the extended warranty (and maybe even if you do) you SHOULD at least change the oil a few times. Some people are doing every year, or every 20k miles, or 40k miles, etc. After a series of frequent flushes/changes (starting with weekly), I'm probably going to change the oil in mine every year going forward, using Amsoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguy75 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I can take a picture if needed. I have the 3.7l, so the exhaust could be different, but I still had room to work around it. Picture this: Laying on your back looking up at the drain plug. You can place the handle of the ratchet facing towards the front of car, while positioning the 3/8" head of the wrench so it slides in to the drain plug. It should only be torqued to 25-30ft/lbs, so it should loosen fairly easy. When looking at the PTU, and drain plug, there was a sub frame in between my body and the PTU. I was able to reach down (towards my legs) and around (above) the sub frame, with plenty of room to feed the drain hose. Yes pictures would help if you ever get time to take a few. On my Edge an exhaust flex pipe and metal bracket prevents my from putting my hands near the drain plug. I tried but the only way for me to reach my drain plug is to use a extension and feed the pump hose up pass the exhaust pipe. The job is doable that way, but I can foresee a mess and gear oil dripping on the exhaust flex pipe. That will stink for weeks until the oil burns off. I will just unbolt the exhaust pipe at the manifold and move it to the side when I change my PTU fluid to make my life easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13EdgeSport Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 The rear diff caused me many more problems than the PTU. The PTU has so little fluid, if you're lucky it won't be burnt goo, the fluid should just pump out easily, and refiling should happen without a mess. I should post a picture of my garage floor, with all the splatter from the rear diff, and no mess from the PTU. (I'll do a better job with the tarp placement on the rear diff next time.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensitron Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Check out the Mazda CX-9 forum for pictures of PTU oil change procedure, they have the same exact PTU during the days when Mazda and Ford were partners, they have the same exact issues of PTU leaking oil and failures link below http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthre ... il-(photos) Edited November 22, 2015 by sensitron 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Very good info, sensitron, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadams3210 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Replaced PTU at 58,000 miles - total cost was $1,554.76. I have a 2007 Lincoln MKX. It all started with a smell like rotten eggs, sulfer smell, or propane smell. I guess this is from the synthetic (sulfur based) gear oil leaking from the PTU. Turns out it was a PTU leak which did not drip onto the ground so it went unnoticed. I first started smelling the sulfur stink after driving hard (about 95 mph) for about 250 miles. I guess this was too fast because I can only guess the PTU got too hot and the seal started leaking. I drove it for three more months and it started getting noisy. Had to replace the entire unit. $1500 bucks! When is FORD going to recall this? What can we do to report it? Will they ever do anything about it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkansascity Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 dadams3210; I have complained and contacted everyone I can think of at Ford. I don't think it's going to make any difference. I did open cases via this form; https://corporate.ford.com/contact-us.html?contactMainTopic=VehicleServiceIssues which seems pretty formal, I.E., you get a case number and they call you back. However, as soon as they realized i was not going to be satisfied with a free oil change, they just ceased all contact. I have done a lot to raise awareness since there are thousands of these on the road, just waiting to blow chunks like yours did. I also contacted several law offices who specialize in class actions, but could not get any interested. They all said they're too busy; lots of class action work going on in the prescription drug industry. Your experience is pretty normal, and that cost is fairly "ball park" as far as costs. One of the things that really troubles me about this topic, is the vastly different experiences some users receive, based on their dealer. I have read where some dealers replaced it free, some are willing to flush/change the oil/grease, and some, like yours and mine, just want the $$$. Luckily, mine calmed down after doing a series of grease flush/replace cycles mine now seems ok, with no smelling and no leaking. This is AFTER the dealer wanted $1600.00 to replace it. I probably changed the oil 6 times in the last 6 months (it's due again now) then I'll probably change it once a year with Amsoil synthetic. I did not drill the drain hole, just sucked it out and replaced it many times. Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkansascity Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yes pictures would help if you ever get time to take a few. On my Edge an exhaust flex pipe and metal bracket prevents my from putting my hands near the drain plug. I tried but the only way for me to reach my drain plug is to use a extension and feed the pump hose up pass the exhaust pipe. The job is doable that way, but I can foresee a mess and gear oil dripping on the exhaust flex pipe. That will stink for weeks until the oil burns off. I will just unbolt the exhaust pipe at the manifold and move it to the side when I change my PTU fluid to make my life easier. I've performed this same process quite a few times now (8) and never had problems dripping on the flex pipe. One of the reasons is that I use the "zip tie oil filler gauge" as described by this post; http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/10914-ptu-leak-failures/page-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkansascity Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Replaced PTU at 58,000 miles - total cost was $1,554.76. I have a 2007 Lincoln MKX. It all started with a smell like rotten eggs, sulfer smell, or propane smell. I guess this is from the synthetic (sulfur based) gear oil leaking from the PTU. Turns out it was a PTU leak which did not drip onto the ground so it went unnoticed. I first started smelling the sulfur stink after driving hard (about 95 mph) for about 250 miles. I guess this was too fast because I can only guess the PTU got too hot and the seal started leaking. I drove it for three more months and it started getting noisy. Had to replace the entire unit. $1500 bucks! When is FORD going to recall this? What can we do to report it? Will they ever do anything about it? In addition to my longer reply, also PM the user "FordService" on this forum. Apparantly they are some sort of official Ford contact and they track this stuff. http://www.fordedgeforum.com/user/29146-fordservice/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13EdgeSport Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) @FordService, I do feel Ford needs to acknowledge this. This would be my ideal situation, if Ford was to take action: First by adding the PTU fluid change and maintenance to the scheduled (reoccurring) 30,000 mile service. With recommended checkups scheduled every 10,000 miles. Second by blanket covering all PTUs (up til the date the first steps are taken) with extended coverage for repair and/or replacement, up to 100,000 miles. This would mitigate almost all of their customer service issues, legal or otherwise. Edited December 22, 2015 by 13EdgeSport 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13EdgeSport Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I was still thinking about this. If someone did want to take legal action, wouldn't it be easiest to prove that the fluid doesn't last for 100,000 miles? If the dealership isn't willing to change the fluid, or if Ford is telling Dealerships it isn't needed, doesn't this escalate the issue? Then on top of that it seems pretty common to "cook" the PTU fluid in to black sludge by 30,000-50,000 miles, where the entire PTU fails due to heat? The solution is pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkansascity Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I was still thinking about this. If someone did want to take legal action, wouldn't it be easiest to prove that the fluid doesn't last for 100,000 miles? If the dealership isn't willing to change the fluid, or if Ford is telling Dealerships it isn't needed, doesn't this escalate the issue? Then on top of that it seems pretty common to "cook" the PTU fluid in to black sludge by 30,000-50,000 miles, where the entire PTU fails due to heat? The solution is pretty simple. I agree. I did spend a few weeks contacting class action law firms. I could not find one that was interested in pursuing this. We all know the story about Kearns, who fought the automakers for over 25 years after they ripped off his intermittent wiper design. I don't have that kind of time, after a few weeks of focus I decided to get back to my normal life and publicize the issue as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coronan Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) I'm doing What Ford Should have. Extra Heat Shielding for the PTU shaft seal. The piece of sheet metal i added is about 3.5" x 5.5" If i had to make it again I would only make 5" long. The shield now spans the entire width of the Exhaust pipe and will limit heat from radiating up. Work Smarter; not Harder. Edited January 5, 2016 by coronan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 An interesting idea, clean work. Probably best when temps are above freezing though. How thick is the plate? Enough to resist vibration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 A posting on another forum: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkansascity Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 A posting on another forum: WWWPerfA_ZN0W, what forum is that on, I can't see the url in the screenshot. So does that post imply that Ford is warranty replacing it due to that issue, or is this just some other notification to the Ford shops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkansascity Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I found the posting on the other board; http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375439&page=13. They also have a "Official Ford Service Rep" Tricia on this thread, but I don't see any real solution. I've also logged my own experience and gathered all of these links here, I hope it's ok to post an outside link; bit.ly/FordPTOLinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Nice blog, makes for interesting reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironpeddler Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Well, my 2008 Edge SEL AWL goes in tomorrow for a new PTU. I was quoted $1,525.00+.....the Service Writer said 5 hours of labor plus the part. I dreaded this day....now all I have to do is make sure they install the latest version of this weak link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKS Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 The PTU I got from a Ford dealer came without enough fluid in it. Make sure they double check the fluid in yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironpeddler Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 The PTU I got from a Ford dealer came without enough fluid in it. Make sure they double check the fluid in yours. Thanks for the heads up I'll definitely mention that to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coronan Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Ironpedeler; What were your symptoms? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Kershaw Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 FLUID FILL LEVEL PTU My wife's Edge is having some road noise that sounds like a wheel bearing but upon searching I am concerned it might be the PTU. Car details: 2012 AWD, 45k miles I sucked out some of the fluid and it was black. Did not get much out despite my best efforts. Pushed in new, pulled out, pushed in, pulled out, etc. The fluid now looks more like coffee, a little translucent instead of pitch black. I see on here the 1.5" to 1.75" fill level using the zip tie. However I looked up in the Ford service manual and it says to fill to bottom edge of fill plug. This seems like a significant difference. Can someone tell me where the zip tie fill method came from? Has anyone had an issue filling to the bottom of the filler? It makes me more comfortable having a little more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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