PTU drain plug drill and tap

[windaddiction]

 

As requested. Found that is was in better shape than I though. Other than the sludge. The gear teeth all showed sign of scuffing, as well the ring gear had some deeper scuffing on the outside of all the teeth.

 

The bearings looked ok.... with one having a deep groove in the top section of all the rollers. They also had more play then I would expect.

 

The most troubling thing was in the 3rd picture. You can see around the cup that there is a piece of metal that galled up around the outside of where the intermediate shaft sits.

 

I think this would be usable in a pinch ones cleaned up, however the wear pattern on some of the teeth lead me to think that there was a fair amount of movement. As the majority of the wear is localized to the very top or bottom of the gear.

 

Still, a neat little unit. if anyone wants it PM, other wise I'll save it for a project!

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Not practical, but it would be an interesting comparo to a brand new unit.

[coronan]

They eye will only show major carnage.

You are looking for what is causing noise.

You have to check tooth engagement with gear marking compound. Back lash, ect.

 

https://www.ringpinion.com/Content/Book/Reading-and-Adjusting-Ring-and-Pinion-Tooth-Patterns.pdf

 

Even then, it does not show preload on the bearings. Which will cause noise as well.

Edited June 25, 2015 by coronan

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Good learning points in that article

[windaddiction]

Yeah I have blued marine gearing before, and well I can see just by looking at at the wear it was favoring on edge of the gear, so something is worn. I don't want to put anymore energy into unless someone had a specific question!

[jlkansascity]

Hi Well, thanks for all the info. I've had my used 2007 edge for about 1.5 years and 50,000km. I am now at 175k and well guess what I am doing. I read awhile ago about PTU issues and checked mine about a month ago while I was doing my rear diff. First off when I went to check it getting anything in to check it or suck and fill it was so hard as a piece of the casting blocked most of the fill hole. I could not get a level so I added 400 ml of fluid cleaned the magnetic plug and drove it for 1500 km. I brought it to a tranny shop to have them try and flush it. They couldn't and there was even more wear metal on the plug than before.

 

I also have a nice humming around 60 and 110 km/h ( most common speeds I drive at).

 

Suffice to say I am having it changed out next week, as I can not afford a failure that could damage the output shaft of the tranny. I love my edge but... this kind of sucks. If the manual at any time had anything about changing this fluid I would have. I am going to ask for the OLD PTU back to do some failure analysis.

 

I also really want a new one as I am doing a camping trip soon (3000km round trip) and towing my travel trailer!

Wow, you got 175k miles on an Edge? That gives me some hope. I'm heading from KC to Denver (and back) pulling a 5x8 uhaul this upcoming weekend so we'll see how it goes. I've used the "suction, refill, repeat" option and after 6 changes it's getting a lot cleaner.

[massie4088]

Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread that contributed with useful information. I had the same problem as all of you with fluid coming out of the vent. I used a mirror and a flashlight to look on top and verify. I bought a 3/8-18 tap item number 2525A114 from McMaster Carr along with 3/8" npt magnetic pipe plug item number 1072A22. I bought a 37/64" drill bit also from them but I do not have a drill that will accept a shank over 1/2"...soooo I went to Menards and bought a 9/16" drill bit necked down for a 1/2" chuck. It threaded fine, I used a socket and extension with my 3/8 ratchet to thread it since all my tappers were too small to fit this larger tap.

 

I am not sure how much black sludge and oil came out but I am pretty sure I caught the problem right away. I would guess there was about 8 ounces or less left. I sprayed a whole can of brake clean through it and ran some clean oil after tapping to make sure all of the shavings came out. Filled it up using one of those cheap pumps that screw onto the gear oil container and a piece of tubing. I used the bent zip tie method for the fill height.

 

Car is a 2011 Ford Edge SEL AWD with 89,500 miles.

 

AGAIN,THANK YOU ALL!!!

[Tacyon]

2011 AWD Limited - ESP out to 125k miles (yea!) I was going to install a drain plug as that seemed to be the best fix from an engineering stand point. However, I got to thinking about how dealerships in general and Ford is no different, love to not pay for things if they can find a wiggle way out, I've opted to have the dealership do a preemptive "check and change" on the PTU and rear diff fluids versus me do my thang. I've asked for samples of both fluids as I want to put eyes on. If no issues with the lubrication is found then its ~$110.00 per part to R&R. $220 I'll gladly pay to keep the warranty (and PTU) intact and not have to crawl under my Edge and suck it out myself.

 

The main "primary" reason for me taking it in was to address 1) Airbag warning light is on. 2) Remote start has started (pun needed) to not. It'll start and then 5-10 second later the engine will stop. Or it click once and never starts. In any case I can enter the vehicle and manually start it the normal way.

 

Because these "primary" reasons are covered under my ESP, I get a rental for the duration. Guess what the rat bastards (jk) at Enterprise gave me to drive?? You got it ... a 2015 AWD Titanium Edge (base) !! Booya !!

 

So now I get to test drive the truck I was kicking around purchasing in 2016.

I'll post my impressions in a separate post later.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Tacyon

[jlkansascity]

2011 AWD Limited - ESP out to 125k miles (yea!) I was going to install a drain plug as that seemed to be the best fix from an engineering stand point. However, I got to thinking about how dealerships in general and Ford is no different, love to not pay for things if they can find a wiggle way out, I've opted to have the dealership do a preemptive "check and change" on the PTU and rear diff fluids versus me do my thang. I've asked for samples of both fluids as I want to put eyes on. If no issues with the lubrication is found then its ~$110.00 per part to R&R. $220 I'll gladly pay to keep the warranty (and PTU) intact and not have to crawl under my Edge and suck it out myself.

 

The main "primary" reason for me taking it in was to address 1) Airbag warning light is on. 2) Remote start has started (pun needed) to not. It'll start and then 5-10 second later the engine will stop. Or it click once and never starts. In any case I can enter the vehicle and manually start it the normal way.

 

Because these "primary" reasons are covered under my ESP, I get a rental for the duration. Guess what the rat bastards (jk) at Enterprise gave me to drive?? You got it ... a 2015 AWD Titanium Edge (base) !! Booya !!

 

So now I get to test drive the truck I was kicking around purchasing in 2016.

I'll post my impressions in a separate post later.

I think that's a good approach if you're under warranty. I would be curious about their reaction. One of the frustrating things with this problem is that some dealers treat this as a known defect item and fix it no charge, and then some dealers won't do you any favors like Thoroughbred Ford (which is my local dealer). I have now run 8 months past when they wanted to charge me $1,600 for the replacement and after multiple oil changes I think it's fine now. Just pulled a trailer to and from Denver / KC a couple of weeks ago.

[Tacyon]

Update: $280.00 later and they changed the lubrication in the PTU, rear differential and since it was there, the engine oil which was due in < 500 miles.

Status of the oil in the PTU (sample collected) dark used oil, No metal debris as searched with magnet. Cost = $~110.00

Status of the oil in the rear diff, dark used oil. Less viscosity that the used PTU oil but that is to be expected given the starting weight. No metal debris as searched with magnet. Cost = $~110.00

 

Front right strut, no oil leaks .. however, also ZERO rebound as well. This was the cause of the "knock in that corner when traversing mild bumps in the road and sudden, excessive tire ware on that tyre.

 

Remote Start would occasionally start the engine, then seconds later, the engine would shut off, OR, it wouldn't start at all just cranking ~ 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Subsequent attempts (while approaching) were non-responsive and a horn beep. In all cases, I could enter and manually start. For this they "recalibrated the remote start module" which I took as they "looked at it and shrugged their shoulders and marked it complete. And while I'm happy there was no metal debris found in either case, and there is now new fluid in both, I'm not excited about the fact that now for 3 days for the first time have oil on the garage floor in the vicinity of the PTU making me believe that it was refilled by "specified" volume and NOT by volume removed. Which also causes me to question how much was actually changed out. Since warranty is up my time this coming April, I'll be adding a drain plug and getting my own satisfaction.

[Ironpeddler]

Well, even after cleaning out the PTU and putting in Royal Purple, it still gave out on me...I guess I was too late. The vibration shakes the car incredibly and it now leaks from every bearing, so I guess I'm as close to a catastrophic failure as one could get short of hearing an explosion. I haven't moved the car in weeks. I called around and so far I got prices of $1,450.00 and $1,387.00 (plus NJ tax) to replace it.

 

Has anyone else gotten replacement quotes around the country in this range?...more?...less? I'm curious to know.

 

Thanks guys.

[jlkansascity]

Those are ball park "normal" prices from what I've seen I was quoted $1,600.00. I've seen prices from the 1200 range to 1600

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Ugh, sorry to hear, ironpeddler!

[carguy75]

Well, even after cleaning out the PTU and putting in Royal Purple, it still gave out on me...I guess I was too late. The vibration shakes the car incredibly and it now leaks from every bearing, so I guess I'm as close to a catastrophic failure as one could get short of hearing an explosion. I haven't moved the car in weeks. I called around and so far I got prices of $1,450.00 and $1,387.00 (plus NJ tax) to replace it.

 

Has anyone else gotten replacement quotes around the country in this range?...more?...less? I'm curious to know.

 

Thanks guys.

What were your mileage when you changed out your PTU fluid?

[Ironpeddler]

Those are ball park "normal" prices from what I've seen I was quoted $1,600.00. I've seen prices from the 1200 range to 1600

 

Thank bro...in some weird way that makes me feel better. Just didn't want to get porked on the job. I asked about the replacement part number and all quoted the same number...AT4Z 7251-D...so that represents the latest redesign of the unit.

 

Ugh, sorry to hear, ironpeddler!

 

Thanks bro...so sucks. It really pisses me off that Ford has this issue for over 6 years and hasn't addressed it via recall. When they say it's all about the money, it's all about the money!

 

But I will tell you guys this, there isn't ONE PERSON that I come across in a parking lot (mall, supermarket, parking garage, etc.) with an AWD Edge or Flex that I don't tell them about this failure...I have made it my mission to spread the word to present owners about this. I wish someone would have done this for me. To a person, everyone I've approached has been thankful and some have already started seeing the 'black dots' on their driveway or garage floor.

 

What were your mileage when you changed out your PTU fluid?

 

About 115 - 120k I think...not really sure. But, I did see the black drip marks for about 1 1/2 years prior to learning about this issue. I had no tell tail sign of any problems with the PTU and was told by my mechanic that the drip marks were a slow leak in the power steering pump and not to worry about it...he said keep an eye on the level and change it out if it effected the steering.

 

Oh well....just got to suck it up and move forward.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

If you ARE paying for a new PTU, see if the mechanic will install a drain plug per the_natrix's instructions. Despite the revisions, I am not sure the basic issue has been resolved. Also try to get it filled with Amsoil gear oil, not Motorcraft.

[Ironpeddler]

If you ARE paying for a new PTU, see if the mechanic will install a drain plug per the_natrix's instructions. Despite the revisions, I am not sure the basic issue has been resolved. Also try to get it filled with Amsoil gear oil, not Motorcraft.

All good points. I just wonder if either would void the Ford warranty.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Drilling a drain hole might, but adding Amsoil wouldn't.

[jlkansascity]

All good points. I just wonder if either would void the Ford warranty.

 

 

I agree with the other comments about warranty. I think drilling a hole in the PTU case would be frowned upon, but I don't know. I can say for sure that Amsoil will not affect your warranty. As long as the lubricant meets Ford specifications for the application, you can use whatever brand you want. So, for the PTU Ford specs 75w-140 GL4 and Amsoil makes a product that fits that criteria exactly.

[carguy75]

 

Thank bro...in some weird way that makes me feel better. Just didn't want to get porked on the job. I asked about the replacement part number and all quoted the same number...AT4Z 7251-D...so that represents the latest redesign of the unit.

 

 

Thanks bro...so sucks. It really pisses me off that Ford has this issue for over 6 years and hasn't addressed it via recall. When they say it's all about the money, it's all about the money!

 

But I will tell you guys this, there isn't ONE PERSON that I come across in a parking lot (mall, supermarket, parking garage, etc.) with an AWD Edge or Flex that I don't tell them about this failure...I have made it my mission to spread the word to present owners about this. I wish someone would have done this for me. To a person, everyone I've approached has been thankful and some have already started seeing the 'black dots' on their driveway or garage floor.

 

 

About 115 - 120k I think...not really sure. But, I did see the black drip marks for about 1 1/2 years prior to learning about this issue. I had no tell tail sign of any problems with the PTU and was told by my mechanic that the drip marks were a slow leak in the power steering pump and not to worry about it...he said keep an eye on the level and change it out if it effected the steering.

 

Oh well....just got to suck it up and move forward.

If you first changed your PTU fluid at 120k miles, then you waited too late from what I have read.

 

The PTU is constantly driving the front axle(and occasionally both the rear and front axles) and it has less that a quart of fluid to lubricate the gears so the fluid breaks down quickly well before 100k miles, hell from what I read the PTU fluid start breaking down as soon as 60k miles.

 

Lesson learned.

 

Sorry you had to go through a PTU failure to educate the rest of us on how the PTU is not maintenance-free component like Ford is describing it to be.

 

The 75w-140 fluid is good, but I believe that it not enough fluid inside the case to be considered a fill-for-life unit due to heat and stress the small amount of fluid has to contend with.

[Ironpeddler]

If you first changed your PTU fluid at 120k miles, then you waited too late from what I have read.

 

The PTU is constantly driving the front axle(and occasionally both the rear and front axles) and it has less that a quart of fluid to lubricate the gears so the fluid breaks down quickly well before 100k miles, hell from what I read the PTU fluid start breaking down as soon as 60k miles.

 

Hard comment to make when you take into account that the part is billed as 'Lifetime Lubricated' and had no maintenance schedule as per FMC. What has been established here is that it in fact needs to be changed because of all the failures.

[carguy75]

 

Hard comment to make when you take into account that the part is billed as 'Lifetime Lubricated' and had no maintenance schedule as per FMC. What has been established here is that it in fact needs to be changed because of all the failures.

Sorry, i do not mean to imply that you are at fault from not changing the fluid sooner.

 

I blame Ford for not recommending a normal fluid change schedule for the PTU.

 

I also thought the same thing about the PTU until i read all the bad rumors of it failure and the causes.

 

The seal issue has nothing to do with maintenance, but the unit internally failing due to the fluid completely breaking down due to wear just over 100k miles can be prevented by changing out the fluid about every 30k miles or so I believe.

 

Well that is what I am going to do anyway, change my PTU fluid every 30k miles since I can not just drain it all at once without removing the PTU from the car.

 

So I will keep mostly fresh oil(only 30k miles old) in the unit so hopefully the PTU will not break down due to wear from broken-down fluid.

Edited July 31, 2015 by carguy75

[Ironpeddler]

 

The seal issue has nothing to do with maintenance, but the unit internally failing due to the fluid completely breaking down due to wear just over 100k miles can be prevented.....

 

Who knew?

[carguy75]

 

Who knew?

True.

 

i used to be the type that never touched anything unless it was recommended by the manufacturer.

 

I have learned over the years that engine/transmissions are expensive whereas oil is cheap the hard way.

 

Therefore, i do not push back changing my fluids just to save a few dollars.

 

And I preach that all the time.

 

Yes, many will say that it wastes of money to change fluids early, but I do not like waiting until the fluid gets old before I change it out.

 

Preventive maintenance/shorter change intervals had worked for me over the years, more so that when i tried to squeeze every mile out of my fluids and had to replace an engine(1992 Mazda Protege) and transmission(2001 Volvo S80 T6) on two different cars before I learned that lesson.

 

The funny thing is that I have read forum posts about my old Volvo S80 that recommended the early transmission fluid changes when I owned it, but listened to the forum members that said Volvo knew better (some claimed to have over 100k miles on the original fluid with no problems at all) and do not waste time changing the fluid at all which I thought would save me money so i mistakenly listened to them.

 

Well my S80 transmission died a couple years later and the transmission repair tech told me that I should have changed the fluid every 30k miles because the old fluid was burnt and useless at 80k miles.

 

Volvo said the transmission was filled for life and only had to be checked.

 

Lesson learned.

Edited August 1, 2015 by carguy75

[candurin]

Ugh. This forum is become a checklist!

 

- brake booster failure? Check!

- ptu leak? Check!

 

Just waiting for my APIM to go...

 

I still love my edge... It's currently sitting at the dealership. I noticed oil drops on my garage floor (the epoxy still looks new, 6 years later!). Took it in yesterday and I am driving a 2014 Passat until tomorrow (I've had worse loaners).

 

According to my service advisor they plan on replacing the PTU gasket/seal and refilling with oil. We shall see.

 

On a positive note this saves 400 something miles I would have otherwise put on my edge (headed down to MD for two days).