PTU drain plug drill and tap

[1004ron]

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/10914-ptu-leak-failures/page-30?do=findComment&comment=187041

Thanks, looks like we have exposed another defect with the recent forum "upgrade", I responded to the post with that question based on his post count showing "1 posts", whereas he does have additional posts.

[ManiN]

Thanks, looks like we have exposed another defect with the recent forum "upgrade", I responded to the post with that question based on his post count showing "1 posts", whereas he does have additional posts.

 

Yes, I noticed this and wondered why no one replied to the thread. My guess is that it didn't even bump the thread to the list until I posted my follow up.

[ManiN]

Hopefully you will be set for some time. What are your driving conditions normally like? All highway 30K, all city 10K mile intervals for fluid changes. Time to do the RDU as well at every other PTU fluid change.

This is now common too? Wouldn't have thought it was as bad being in the rear away from a heat source.

 

From my digging and personal experience with my PTU, the fluid becoming grease like I believe is from a vastly over heated PTU. I've seen others mention this theory in their posts, and I agree. At work we had Mobil Oil come in to discuss their fluids. We spent time discussing how lubricant can be damaged and improperly applied in applications. One point I remember was overheating and how it can damage the lubricant changing it on a molecular level. One failure of lubricant is thickening (not change in viscosity). This is exactly what we see here is the lube getting overheated and becoming grease-like. Unfortunately when it's degraded like this, the lubricant properties are drastically reduced and you will have early wear on components. That said I believe the real root of the problem with these PTUs is running the cat & exhaust basically wrapping around it. Cooking the oil like a vat of hot tar...

 

Some folks have added more home made heat shields to protect the PTU. I think this is a good attempt, I'd imagine it would at least buy some time between changes.

 

These same points above are the reason to buy more expensive higher heat rated lube if you can. I personally chose Royal Purple. I think between higher quality lubricant and routine changes, this is the only way to help it along unless you reroute the exhaust (not happening).

Edited July 12, 2018 by ManiN

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

The RDU has far fewer issues, but they will occur. And since it is also far easier to change, why not. If you have the original RDU fluid, breakin metals are not doing the unit any favors.

[tk2fast]

After reading all this on the PTU I understand many people not wanting to purchase the Ford AWD. Sounds like the problem still exists on the 2015's and newer. I was thinking of a 2019 but refuse to have to "worry" about these things when paying over 40K. I completely understand about doing good maintenance and have always done so. I have always used Amsoil products as I believe they are one the very best you can get, but this issue seems to defy regular maintenance. Definitely am having second thoughts, and why if this has been an ongoing issue for years has Ford not corrected the problem. And why in many cases has Ford not willingly repaired these without the dealers using subterfuge.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

First of all, all gen 2 Edge AWD vehicles have a fill AND drain plug, so maintenance is that much easier.

 

Secondly, AWD systems from all makes have issues. Ford just piles it on by not having installed drain plugs from day 1 with regular maintenance schedule recommendations. Easily rectified.

 

Finally, 40K is nothing these days for vehicles like the Edge. IMHO it is a class leader, even after all these years, looking at the total package and value. If you are paying that much, add on Premiumcare just before the 3/36 elapses for the longterm.

 

The issues are known, and so are solutions. Would not let them scare me away from AWD if I really wanted it.

[tk2fast]

Been using Amsoil products for over 30 years so I looked up the Amsoil replacement for the PTU fluid. Synthetic 75-140, and comes in a squeeze bottle for easy filling.

 

 

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/gear-lube/severe-gear-75w-140/?code=SVOPK-EA

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

always something new in packaging, like those bulk oil container "bags" from Motorcraft, LOL.

[1004ron]

Been using Amsoil products for over 30 years so I looked up the Amsoil replacement for the PTU fluid. Synthetic 75-140, and comes in a squeeze bottle for easy filling.

 

 

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/gear-lube/severe-gear-75w-140/?code=SVOPK-EA

I don't doubt the quality of the product, but with so many other good quality products freely available at good prices, the effort to buy Amsoil isn't worth the hassle for me.

[tk2fast]

Not trying to debate who has the "best" products but Amsoil quality is undisputed, and yes for the most part you have to order it online from Amsoil. It's no problem for me as I order enough to last a year or so. You get what you pay for when buying automotive lubricants and would rather have peace of mind knowing I'm using the best products available. I have been astonished at the results using Amsoil for well over 30 years. Personal experience taking care of fleet vehicles and many others has taught me to use no other! Never was sold by all the hype from brands like Royal Purple and others, and please no comments as I'm not bashing RP, just saying Amsoil does not need marketing savvy to move product.

[tk2fast]

Is there someone out there that works for Ford or is a Ford mechanic that can shed some light what Ford is doing to address this issue. Have they changed the maintenance requirements? Have they acknowledged the problems listed on many Ford owner sites with the PTU? After reading pages and pages of Ford owners dealing with this I can see a fluid change 20K miles would be wise. With the heat buildup and the measly 18oz of fluid it would make sense in my opinion. Ford obviously knows of issues as they put an air scoop to help cool the PTU. Any thoughts?

 

I think this is from a gen 1 MKX owners manual:

"Edge/MKX AWD only – vehicles operating off-road in sand during high ambient temperatures must replace the AWD PTU (All-wheel drive Power Transfer Unit) lube every 20,000 miles (32,000 km)."

 

​Drive in Phoenix for a while... talk about high ambient temperatures.

Edited August 22, 2018 by tk2fast

[ManiN]

Update from my side. Seems the leak is still there just not near as bad. Still smell the burning oil. Not very much drip on the garage floor like before. I believe the shaft output seal is no good and may need replaced as there is clearly fluid leakage coming from there. There used to be at the vent but I took care of that.

 

Is it possible that filling to the thread on the side plug is too much and it will cause leakage through the seal? Or is that not likely cause it's a lip seal and maybe just worn out. Car has 100k on it.

[1004ron]

Update from my side. Seems the leak is still there just not near as bad. Still smell the burning oil. Not very much drip on the garage floor like before. I believe the shaft output seal is no good and may need replaced as there is clearly fluid leakage coming from there. There used to be at the vent but I took care of that.

 

Is it possible that filling to the thread on the side plug is too much and it will cause leakage through the seal? Or is that not likely cause it's a lip seal and maybe just worn out. Car has 100k on it.

More likely a ridge worn in the shaft by the grit that was attracted by oil from the first leaking lip seal.

[enigma-2]

Is there someone out there that works for Ford or is a Ford mechanic that can shed some light what Ford is doing to address this issue. Have they changed the maintenance requirements? Have they acknowledged the problems listed on many Ford owner sites with the PTU? After reading pages and pages of Ford owners dealing with this I can see a fluid change 20K miles would be wise. With the heat buildup and the measly 18oz of fluid it would make sense in my opinion. Ford obviously knows of issues as they put an air scoop to help cool the PTU. Any thoughts?

 

I think this is from a gen 1 MKX owners manual:

"Edge/MKX AWD only vehicles operating off-road in sand during high ambient temperatures must replace the AWD PTU (All-wheel drive Power Transfer Unit) lube every 20,000 miles (32,000 km)."

 

​Drive in Phoenix for a while... talk about high ambient temperatures.

I had the dealer replace my fluid and he recommended a 36k interval for future changes. (During an oil change, he noted a slight leak at the seal. They told me they would change just the seal, think they quoted $475, but decided to change the whole unit when they discovered I had an extended warranty.) Gen 1, approx 92k.

[tk2fast]

I have spent well over two months going over the info in this and other Ford forums and have reached a dismal conclusion. This PTU problem has gone on for over a decade with Ford just watching and not acting. When a manufacturer has a problem and they all do, address it and solve it. Put an engineering team on it and solve the problem! This PTU problem has really highlighted a serious problem with Ford in general, and that is the unwillingness to identify and address major problems and the lack of warranty support. I don't want to buy from a car from a company like that. Forget the 2019 Edge... there are too many other choices out there and I will not have to support Ford in the process.

 

Ford should be ashamed of it's lack of integrity, which is so clearly displayed across all the forums.

[1004ron]

I have spent well over two months going over the info in this and other Ford forums and have reached a dismal conclusion. This PTU problem has gone on for over a decade with Ford just watching and not acting. When a manufacturer has a problem and they all do, address it and solve it. Put an engineering team on it and solve the problem! This PTU problem has really highlighted a serious problem with Ford in general, and that is the unwillingness to identify and address major problems and the lack of warranty support. I don't want to buy from a car from a company like that. Forget the 2019 Edge... there are too many other choices out there and I will not have to support Ford in the process.

 

Ford should be ashamed of it's lack of integrity, which is so clearly displayed across all the forums.

Of course you're free to express your personal opinions, but just from the time I've spent on this forum I get the impression that a large majority here are happy owners and most would likely buy another Edge, or any other Ford model.

 

I'd certainly buy another Ford Edge Sport, or ST.

 

Before buying, I get some guidance from forums etc. and that's what I did prior to buying my 2017 Sport, and just like any other manufacturer, there's negative posts, some rants, ...... but I've learnt to garner the truth in between all that.

Bad news travels way faster and wider than good news, and we are all old enough to see through media hype.

 

Now that you've decided against a Ford, what are you considering?

[tk2fast]

Of course you're free to express your personal opinions, but just from the time I've spent on this forum I get the impression that a large majority here are happy owners and most would likely buy another Edge, or any other Ford model.

 

I'd certainly buy another Ford Edge Sport, or ST.

 

Before buying, I get some guidance from forums etc. and that's what I did prior to buying my 2017 Sport, and just like any other manufacturer, there's negative posts, some rants, ...... but I've learnt to garner the truth in between all that.

Bad news travels way faster and wider than good news, and we are all old enough to see through media hype.

 

Now that you've decided against a Ford, what are you considering?

Thanks for your comments. At what millage are you going to change your PTU fluid?

I am certainly old enough to see through the "media hype" and my posting about the PTU only came after reading hundreds of posts and a good amount of internet investigation. I do think the Edge is a good vehicle in many ways, but believe Ford is negligent for blatantly refusing to address the PTU issue for over ten years. I am not alone in my distaste for Ford, as many other long time Ford buyers have said no more. I have purchased quite a few vehicles in my time, so I well know all manufacturers have issues, but what matters is how those are handled. Ford has not done well there.

So currently I am looking at a Jeep product.

[1004ron]

Is there someone out there that works for Ford or is a Ford mechanic that can shed some light what Ford is doing to address this issue.

Asking that question, and later comments suggests that you're assuming that the PTU remains unchanged from the Gen-1 Edge.

 

Just browsing this forum I have noticed that the latest generation has seen changes to the PTU.

[1004ron]

Not trying to debate who has the "best" products but Amsoil quality is undisputed, and yes for the most part you have to order it online from Amsoil. It's no problem for me as I order enough to last a year or so. You get what you pay for when buying automotive lubricants and would rather have peace of mind knowing I'm using the best products available. I have been astonished at the results using Amsoil for well over 30 years. Personal experience taking care of fleet vehicles and many others has taught me to use no other! Never was sold by all the hype from brands like Royal Purple and others, and please no comments as I'm not bashing RP, just saying Amsoil does not need marketing savvy to move product.

I've been using a good quality, reasonably priced, full synthetic, readily available oil for 30 plus years with amazing results, and no doubt would be saying the same if I'd made Amsoil my choice of lubricant.

[tk2fast]

Asking that question, and later comments suggests that you're assuming that the PTU remains unchanged from the Gen-1 Edge.

 

Just browsing this forum I have noticed that the latest generation has seen changes to the PTU.

Did Ford fix the problem from gen 1 then? Did Ford tackle the "real" problem of the PTU overheating, besides just putting a little air scoop under the vehicle? Not entirely from what I have read.

[tk2fast]

I've been using a good quality, reasonably priced, full synthetic, readily available oil for 30 plus years with amazing results, and no doubt would be saying the same if I'd made Amsoil my choice of lubricant.

Point taken... I'm sure most people are satisfied with the lube they are using. It's subjective without doing a lab analysis to verify.

 

May I ask what you are using?

Edited August 23, 2018 by tk2fast

[chefduane]

On my Gen 1.5 I use Mobil-1 OR Valvoline full synth 75w-100 High Temp gear oil and I change it at 20k intervals. High temp because that is when most of the problems of sludging occurs - during prolonged high temp operation. I think regular changes are more damage preventative than the maker of the lube oil. While I do believe there are superior products to the Mobil-1 or Valvoline product (Amsoil for instance) I am comfortable changing the PTU oil at the intervals I mentioned and using the M-1 or Valv product. I have 93k miles on my Edge and so far no runs, no drips, no errors.

[dolsen]

If I am not mistaken, Ford is going with a new supplier for the AWD systems for 2019 on the Edge. I'll see if I can find some information.

[omar302]

I suggest to make a survey amongst forum members to get an idea of the percentage of those who had an issue with the PTU. Same for the other "common" issues.

 

Note that for the PTU, Ford did offer an extended warranty (10Y/120K Miles) for the Middle East where there is much higher temperatures & high speed driving in addition to crossovers being marketed as SUVs and driving on sand dunes is much more common than in the US. Also replacement PTUs came with drain plugs & on 2013 or 2014 all PTUs came with drain plugs from the factory. Meaning Ford was trying to address the issue. If I'm not mistaken, there are also at least 6 or 7 versions (incremental improvements) for the standard PTU.

Edited August 23, 2018 by omar302

[1004ron]

Did Ford fix the problem from gen 1 then? Did Ford tackle the "real" problem of the PTU overheating, besides just putting a little air scoop under the vehicle? Not entirely from what I have read.

It sounds like you don't know the answers to those questions, but have nevertheless come to the conclusion that nothing has been done.

 

The changes that I'm aware of are increased oil capacity, cooling fins added to the casting, air scoop, oil temperature sensors, .......... and there may be more. Ford didn't broadcast those changes as far as I can tell.

 

Have you read any reports here of failures on the Gen-2 ?