PTU drain plug drill and tap

[turbosig]

I'm a little, or a very late to this PTU party. '09 Edge Limited AWD with 80k on the clock. Wife's car, but I drive it mainly taking kids to and from school. Long story short, when we bought the car used with about 42k I was aware of the PTU leak from the shaft, I inspected it to confirm it was replaced before we bought it. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago when accelerating the car would shudder slightly but still accelerate and make a whiny noise. I thought it was a bad wheel hub which is what it sounded like. The shudder got progressively worse throughout last week which finally made me think it wasn't the wheel hub. Today, when driving it in a parking lot at low speed (less than 5mph) and turning to the left, the car shuddered, made a very loud clunky noise, almost like a banging, but kept driving. I'm pretty sure this is the dreaded PTU failure.

 

My question to you all, is the PTU toast (meaning a trip to dealership for replacement) or do you think I can replace the fluid like in all these diy's and get the car operating better? Car drives fine at speed, just made that noise today and I immediately drove home and parked it.

Edited February 5, 2017 by turbosig

[turbosig]

Got a chance to get under the car today....what a way to spend Super Bowl Sunday...I digress. I was surprised to not find a vomit of black goo anywhere! I checked the vent on the PTU and there was no residue or black goop. The seals are fine. Needless to say this suprised me as I was expecting to see the same images that we all see on these boards with PTU failures. I did take off the fill plug and it was exactly what I thought it would be, gunky goop. Attached for your viewing pleasure.

 

Not quite cement yet, but I noticed fine fine metal particles. I'm assuming this is normal gear wear as the car has 80k miles. Do you guys think the PTU is toast? I have no idea where the PTU oil went as the seals are completely clean and the vent is completely clean as well. Any ideas?!?

[enigma-2]

My guess it's sticking to the inside walls and parts. You try sucking out the old goo and refilling?

Edited February 6, 2017 by enigma-2

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Check the fluid level, at a minimum, but would definitely recommend a complete fluid R&R. Keep the old fluid for review, maybe even send it in to Blackstone Labs for testing. They can tell you if there's reason to worry or not. The PTU is a simple gear drive, no clutches nothing. So either bearings or gears will wear/fail.

[turbosig]

Check the fluid level, at a minimum, but would definitely recommend a complete fluid R&R. Keep the old fluid for review, maybe even send it in to Blackstone Labs for testing. They can tell you if there's reason to worry or not. The PTU is a simple gear drive, no clutches nothing. So either bearings or gears will wear/fail.

 

Interesting. Yes, I have a new Blackstone container I was going to use for my M3 oil analysis, but this takes precedence since it is our car we use to drive the kids. Still confused on where the low MPH noise comes from when turning in a parking lot. The whining noise from 0-10mph is definitely the PTU but the clanking at less than 5MPH has me confused. Tranny fluid is full and in good condition too.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

check sway bar endlinks and control arms as sources for the clunking sound. get an alignment after the faulty part is replaced.

[enigma-2]

Could be as WWW stated or a bad CV joint. A CV joint will click and grind while turning at low speed (quiet when going straight) and a sway bushing will thud or clunk.

 

Look under the car at your CV joint boots to see if either is cut or cracked.

Edited February 6, 2017 by enigma-2

[turbosig]

I'll be go under the car tomorrow to check the sway bar links, tie rods and cv boot. Also, gonna fill the PTU with some Royal Purple to start the flush/change cycle. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the input!

[turbosig]

Got a chance to get under the car. Inspected the sway bar and end links, no play or damage on any of them. So I will keep my eye out for them in the future. I did start the PTU flush. That was a pain - I was unable to siphon any of the old "oil" out, meaning it was completely sludged up. I did the zip tie test and the PTU was literally bone dry or as others have stated the sludge was splattered to the inside of the PTU housing and because there was no "liquid -like" oil left, I was unable to get a good measurement using the zip tie.

 

So I started by adding only 8 oz. of Royal Purple 75w-140. I didn't want to overfill it as the PTU oil expands as it heats, so I figured by putting in less then half of the recommend 18ozs I could start slow, warm the car up for a few cycles, and siphon, add, repeat with our worrying about extra oil spitting up from the vent. After adding the 8ozs, the drivability was immediately noticeable; no more vibration/shudder from stop to start, no noise when turning the vehicle slowly and no vibration or sounds at speed. I will be doing another change this weekend and will keep you all posted.

[doji_nj]

Got a chance to get under the car. Inspected the sway bar and end links, no play or damage on any of them. So I will keep my eye out for them in the future. I did start the PTU flush. That was a pain - I was unable to siphon any of the old "oil" out, meaning it was completely sludged up. I did the zip tie test and the PTU was literally bone dry or as others have stated the sludge was splattered to the inside of the PTU housing and because there was no "liquid -like" oil left, I was unable to get a good measurement using the zip tie.

 

So I started by adding only 8 oz. of Royal Purple 75w-140. I didn't want to overfill it as the PTU oil expands as it heats, so I figured by putting in less then half of the recommend 18ozs I could start slow, warm the car up for a few cycles, and siphon, add, repeat with our worrying about extra oil spitting up from the vent. After adding the 8ozs, the drivability was immediately noticeable; no more vibration/shudder from stop to start, no noise when turning the vehicle slowly and no vibration or sounds at speed. I will be doing another change this weekend and will keep you all posted.

Great to hear, keep us posted I did the first R&R with Royal Purple a month back. Had 85K miles prior to it, and definitely felt the car shift smoother. Spark plugs changed too. I feel the acceleration might be a little sluggish but none of that bump and misses on slow turns at inclines, etc. Fair amount of puking after the overfill as the fluid sloshed around for a week, and seems to have settled in. Might do another one or two R&R and see if I can get more of the sludge out.

[turbosig]

Great to hear, keep us posted I did the first R&R with Royal Purple a month back. Had 85K miles prior to it, and definitely felt the car shift smoother. Spark plugs changed too. I feel the acceleration might be a little sluggish but none of that bump and misses on slow turns at inclines, etc. Fair amount of puking after the overfill as the fluid sloshed around for a week, and seems to have settled in. Might do another one or two R&R and see if I can get more of the sludge out.

 

Thanks! It was relief to drive it again without any noise or vibrations. So it seems that you got the bump, misses and clanking too at low speed turns. Good to hear I'm not alone on that. Misery loves company. I will do another flush and repeat this weekend and hopefully it will be good to go.

[chefduane]

''...recommended 18 oz."

 

Better check that. I think the total amount of 75w-140 is only 12oz for the PTU.

Edited February 8, 2017 by chefduane

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

The FSM states 18 oz, the owner's manual 12 oz. Which would you believe :headscratch:

[chefduane]

hmm.. now I'm not sure. I guess just fill it till it starts to puke out the fill hole.

 

EDIT: I checked a Haynes Manual I have (mostly useless, I know..) and it says 18 ounces. So I guess 18 it is. Don't the tech writers who put together the Owner's Manual check this stuff??

Edited February 9, 2017 by chefduane

[enigma-2]

The owners manual for my 2009 MKX is 12 oz.

[dshamer]

Yeah, my 2009 MKX manual says 12oz too, but this information is from a company that also engineered a known defective part. My new PTU has 18 oz of Ams oil super duty gear oil put in by my mechanic before installation. His research claims 18 oz is best not 12 oz. So far I have 3000 miles and no puking.

[turbosig]

Tried to siphon a little more fluid today. Barely got any out. Added an additional 4 ozs ontop of the 8 I already did. Hopefully that is enough to get things sloshed around and drained out the next time. So either way there is only 12ozs in there.

[chefduane]

When I picked up my Edge from the shop yesterday from a PTU suck/fill they also mentioned it only took 12oz. I'm thinking that if completely dry it would take 18 oz but a simple suck/fill would evacuate all but 6 oz., hence the 12 oz. refill amount. Good indication that continuing suck/fills are need to keep recycling out remaining fluid each time.

[enigma-2]

There's been so much back and forth on this, I went and checked the service manual.

 

It stated that if the fluid is black and has an acrid smell, it's ok. It also stated that the fill was 18 oz.

 

Also, if you remove the plug to check or fill the unit, it's to be discarded and a new plug used in its place.

 

Anytime the unit had been submerged it is to be changed. Apparently if water gets in through the vent, the fluid is toast. (Also same same for the rear axle.)

[dshamer]

I don't care what it states. Any oil or lubricant in a closed unit, not exposed to combustibles, should not be black. It should not look like your engine oil before you change it. Have you attempted any maintenance on any of your vehicles? I'm not asking to mock you, but just trying to understand your background before I comment any further...And yes if a unit has water contamination it would need to be changed, but that gear oil contaminated with water would be emulsified and be white-ish in color.

Edited February 12, 2017 by dshamer

[chefduane]

Regardless of being in a closed unit and not exposed to combustibles, wouldn't lube oil change color due repeated wide range temperature cycling? Also, would it not change color due to frictional surface wear and metallic sloughing being consequently suspended in the fluid?

 

Your comment about water contamination is what the manual states, but you said you don't care what it states. That's a bit confusing. Any water contamination in lube oil will emulsify with sufficient agitation but I think it would probably be a darker color than whitish. Hopefully no one will have to find out!

[dshamer]

I don't care that the manual states that it's normal. That is not normal for any gear unit under normal operating conditions. If it is normal for Ford's design, than they are admitting they have a flawed design. My vehicle only had 27,000 miles and the gear oil was black, full of metal and it was TOAST! NOT ACCEPTABLE!

 

I've changed gear oil in rear units many times in passenger cars and pick up trucks. I've changed the same weight gear oil in Harley transmissions. I've never seen gear oil look as bad as what I saw come out of my Lincoln MKX PTU.

 

Have you see water contamination in oil or gear oil? I have and I'm only telling you what it looked like from my perspective.

[chefduane]

OK, but that does not answer my question(s). Regardless of anything the manual states, wouldn't the lube still undergo a color change due to the conditions I described above, ie, continuous wide range temp cycling and frictional wear? That said, I did not do the recent PTU oil change on my Edge. I had my shop do it so I did not see the color of the lube oil. Although they did say that it was very black.

 

Yes, I have seen water contamination in oil/gear oil. It was not white nor whitish, but more brownish and foamy due to emulsification.

 

When I have changed the gear oil on my bike (Kaw Nomad shafty) it was darker than when it went in but certainly not jet black and not the color of new oil.

[dshamer]

Yes, of course, but you must ask yourself why it is turning black. Extreme high temperature will cause fluid to turn black in a closed unit. I don't know of any other factor. The edge's exhaust pipe wraps around the ptu unit, the low volume of lubricant, and the rediculous 'no maintenance required' also stated in the manual, is all by design. It is a obviously a recipe for disaster. There have been eight updates on the old unit and finally a complete redesign in 2015 with a drain plug.

 

I have all the old part numbers listed for the updates up to present. if you would like them I will post same. I researched them to make sure I bought the latest design when I replaced my unit.

[pedro2u]

Is the complete redesigned PTU w/drain backward compatible with 2011-2014? Although my PTU was replaced about a year ago under CPO, it still seems like it's a ticking time bomb under there. Especially for those of us that plan to obtain all the value of our purchases and drive cars well into the 200K+ mile range

 

Knowing that the next PTU replacement has a drain would bring some piece of mind, since Ford appears to have no plan to own up to this and extend the PTU warranty